Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-18 Thread Edward Berry
Zheng Zhou wrote: Hi, Ed I am dealing the similar problem. I checked CNS qindividual.inp. But how do I refine one compound with two or more possible conformations (mainly due to one bond rotation), each of wihich has a different occupancy? Thanks in advance. Hi Zheng, Others can answer bet

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-18 Thread Zheng Zhou
Hi, Ed I am dealing the similar problem. I checked CNS qindividual.inp. But how do I refine one compound with two or more possible conformations (mainly due to one bond rotation), each of wihich has a different occupancy? Thanks in advance. Joe On Dec 17, 2007 2:24 PM, Edward Berry <[EMAIL PROTE

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-17 Thread Gerard DVD Kleywegt
I thought that I would never have to disagree with both Eleanor and Tassos in the same email, let alone risk being burnt at a stake as a heretic for doubting the Gospel according to Kleywegt, but in my but ... but ... i haven't even said anything! i'm innocent! my name is being used in vain!

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-17 Thread Edward Berry
I think the correlation between occupancy and B-factor depends also on the size of the ligand (relative to resolution). Bob Stroud, I think, has estimated occupancy by comparing the integrated electron density of the ligand with that of a well-defined, isolated water (assumed to be at unit occuanc

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-17 Thread Anastassis Perrakis
In the danger of getting corrected by George twice in the same time (burning stakes excluded...) I am not doubting at all if its doable, but if the final result will be more accurate / useful. Thinking about it, with 1.5 A data it is very likely to be more accurate than manual handling, but

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-17 Thread Santarsiero, Bernard D.
I would also ask what is the actual goal in refining the occupancy of the ligand? While I agree wholeheartedly with George, the B-factors will adequately model a lower ligand occupancy. Usually the question you want to resolve is "Is the ligand really bound in the active site, or is this an artif

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-17 Thread George M. Sheldrick
I thought that I would never have to disagree with both Eleanor and Tassos in the same email, let alone risk being burnt at a stake as a heretic for doubting the Gospel according to Kleywegt, but in my experience, given the very fortunate position that you have data to 1.5A, the refinement of o

Re: [ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-17 Thread Anastassis Perrakis
I have already changed occupancies as Eleanor mentioned, and got approximate values. But my hope is to try to get much precise ones if possible. I never expected to preach the 'Kleywegt Gospel' in the ccp4bb, but in this case what you need is more accurate answers, not more precise ones (or be

[ccp4bb] Fwd: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-17 Thread nkamiya
ou mentioned. Isaac -- Dr Isaac Westwood Department of Pharmacology University of Oxford Mansfield Road Oxford OX1 3QT tel: 01865 271595 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Eleanor Dodson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2007年 12月 17日 19:02:28:JST To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4b

Re: [ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-17 Thread Eleanor Dodson
I dont think REFMAC can refine occupancy, but the way I would tackle it is to first refine B factors, then if those for the ligand are much higher than for the protein maybe test changing those occupancies to 0.7 , 0,5 and so on.. But in fact B factors and occupancies are highly correlated, an

[ccp4bb] Occupancy refinement of substrate using refmac5

2007-12-17 Thread nkamiya
Dear all, This is my first mail to CCP4BB. I'm now refining crystal structures of an enzyme at a resolution of 1.5A using refmac5 through CCP4i. Before X-ray data collections, the substrate and co-factor ions were soaked into the crystals. Their occupancies seem to be less than the unity because