[cctalk] Re: Floppy recovery

On 6/21/23 01:50, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, 20 Jun 2023, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> the cookie to a clean jacket after cleaning.  If it's oxide shedding, I >> use a couple of drops of cyclomethicone on each side. > > Is it essentially the same as silicone oil? Because cyclomethicone

[cctalk] Re: Floppy recovery

On Tue, 20 Jun 2023, Chuck Guzis wrote: the cookie to a clean jacket after cleaning. If it's oxide shedding, I use a couple of drops of cyclomethicone on each side. Is it essentially the same as silicone oil? Because cyclomethicone is just a category for three different cyclic siloxanes (D4,

[cctalk] Re: Floppy recovery

On 6/20/23 13:59, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 1:53 PM Warner Losh via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> OK. I have just read in a bunch of Rainbow disks. Most of them read fine on >> the first, second or third try. Some have a sector or three amiss (I've

[cctalk] Re: Floppy recovery

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 1:53 PM Warner Losh via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > OK. I have just read in a bunch of Rainbow disks. Most of them read fine on > the first, second or third try. Some have a sector or three amiss (I've not > yet checked to see if those sectors are mapped to

[cctalk] Floppy recovery

OK. I have just read in a bunch of Rainbow disks. Most of them read fine on the first, second or third try. Some have a sector or three amiss (I've not yet checked to see if those sectors are mapped to the filesystem or not). Some appear to be 'unformatted' though sometimes they read with errors.

Re: Secure disk destruction [was Re: Floppy recovery]

> They are also useful if you are also doing your own high-grade gold refining > pass, for preparation of material. The two recycling operators I know are > probably doing this process as well. There are some groups now using hammer mills and shaker tables in order to try and cut down the amount

Re: Secure disk destruction [was Re: Floppy recovery]

On Thu, 7 Jan 2016, Charles Anthony wrote: Putting it a crate with a few hundred other drives... Label the one next to yours: CONFIDENTIAL : TOP SECRET or label the one next to yours: TAX RECEIPTS, and label your drive: REAL TAX RECEIPTS If you were to label your enemy's drive ISIS, CHILD

Re: Floppy recovery

>>> If you want data security and don't like destroying your hardware, >>> SED ("sel$ >> You're assuming that the SED doesn't store an extra copy of the >> decryption key in NVM or on the medium. That was my initial reaction too! >> Also, reverse-engineering has shown that at least some SEDs

Re: Floppy recovery

>> I don't trust the vendor's internal security to keep the key from >> leaking and I don't trust the vendor's HR security to prevent >> malware authors from making it to the inside, and I *sure* don't >> trust the vendor to resist a request from law enforcement [...] > I donâ¿¿t know if itâ¿¿s

Re: Secure disk destruction [was Re: Floppy recovery]

What's wrong with the "disassemble and rend with heavy hammer" approach? Doesn't that render the platters un-readable, if done with sufficient ardor? On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 5:09 PM, Stefan Skoglund (lokal < stefan.skogl...@agj.net> wrote: > tor 2016-01-07 klockan 15:08 -0500 skrev Mouse: > > >

Re: Secure disk destruction [was Re: Floppy recovery]

On 2016-01-07 9:06 PM, drlegendre . wrote: What's wrong with the "disassemble and rend with heavy hammer" approach? Doesn't that render the platters un-readable, if done with sufficient ardor? Or spin the disk and scrape off the oxide, I have seen disk drive do that all by themselves, but as

Re: Secure disk destruction [was Re: Floppy recovery]

tor 2016-01-07 klockan 15:08 -0500 skrev Mouse: > > Well, if you don't have access to thermite [...] > > Actually, red heat is well above the Curie temperature for most media, > isn't it? You could chuck the platters into the coals of a bonfire, > let them get up to a nice cherry red.

Re: Floppy recovery

> On Jan 7, 2016, at 3:52 PM, Mouse wrote: > > >>> Even if your SED doesn't have a back door or badly implemented >>> crypto, you also have to worry about whether someone has managed to >>> install compromised firmware on it. >> The key here is the use of signed

Re: Floppy recovery

> On Jan 7, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Mouse wrote: > >>> I don't trust the vendor's internal security to keep the key from >>> leaking and I don't trust the vendor's HR security to prevent >>> malware authors from making it to the inside, and I *sure* don't >>> trust the

Re: Floppy recovery

On Tue, 5 Jan 2016, Fred Cisin wrote: 1) if the alignment of the head of the original recording and of the overwrite head are not a perfect match, then there can be some residual data somewhat off axis. At a first thought I don't see how there can be residual data because there is the tunnel

Re: Secure disk destruction [was Re: Floppy recovery]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 6:20 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jan 2016, drlegendre . wrote: > >> What's wrong with the "disassemble and rend with heavy hammer" approach? >> Doesn't that render the platters un-readable, if done with sufficient >> ardor? >> > > Bending the

Re: Secure disk destruction [was Re: Floppy recovery]

On Thu, 7 Jan 2016, drlegendre . wrote: What's wrong with the "disassemble and rend with heavy hammer" approach? Doesn't that render the platters un-readable, if done with sufficient ardor? Bending the platters will keep them from turning and being usable in the drive, but does NOT prevent

Re: Floppy recovery

1) if the alignment of the head of the original recording and of the overwrite head are not a perfect match, then there can be some residual data somewhat off axis. On Thu, 7 Jan 2016, Christian Corti wrote: At a first thought I don't see how there can be residual data because there is the

Re: Secure disk destruction [was Re: Floppy recovery]

On 1/7/2016 6:20 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Thu, 7 Jan 2016, drlegendre . wrote: What's wrong with the "disassemble and rend with heavy hammer" approach? Doesn't that render the platters un-readable, if done with sufficient ardor? Bending the platters will keep them from turning and being

Re: Secure disk destruction [was Re: Floppy recovery]

On 01/07/2016 08:17 PM, jwsmobile wrote: They are also useful if you are also doing your own high-grade gold refining pass, for preparation of material. The two recycling operators I know are probably doing this process as well. Most gold recover folks are not trusted. There are several

Re: Floppy recovery

> On Jan 7, 2016, at 1:13 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > On 01/07/2016 09:36 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> I've heard that there are "standards" for a number of overwrites, and >> what patterns to use, . . . > > The paper that got the most notice was from Peter Gutmann from the

Re: Floppy recovery

> On Jan 7, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Paul Koning wrote: >> If you want data security and don't like destroying your hardware, SED >> ("self-encrypting drives") are a solution. Those encrypt all data,

Re: Floppy recovery

On 01/07/2016 09:36 AM, Fred Cisin wrote: I've heard that there are "standards" for a number of overwrites, and what patterns to use, . . . The paper that got the most notice was from Peter Gutmann from the early 90s. https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html --Chuck

Re: Floppy recovery

I've heard that there are "standards" for a number of overwrites, and what patterns to use, . . . On Thu, 7 Jan 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote: The paper that got the most notice was from Peter Gutmann from the early 90s. https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html Thank you! That

Re: Floppy recovery

- Original Message - From: "Fred Cisin" <ci...@xenosoft.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2016 1:58 PM Subject: Re: Floppy recovery >>> I've heard that there a

Re: Floppy recovery

>I wonder how it could take them three months to figure something out. Maybe Chuck can comment. Yes, I would have thought an old MSDOS machine with a 360k 5.25 inch floppy drive plus Chuck's 22DISK program and the job could have been done in a day? Might be more too it than it seems maybe...

Re: Floppy recovery

>> On 01/05/2016 1:15 PM, Ali wrote: >> Anyone know anything about the custom computer and the custom OS? Nor >> implying anything but Chuck do u have any insights? ;) > Didn't Scotty leave his laptop behind when they were saving the whales? "Hello, computer!"

Re: Floppy recovery

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Rich Alderson wrote: > From: Jason Scott > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 1:53 PM >> As someone who's dealt with Harlan Ellison on multiple fronts. I will tell >> you the chances he will burn those drawers is 50-50. > > Though I've

Re: Floppy recovery

On 01/05/2016 12:27 PM, jwsmobile wrote: I wonder how it could take them three months to figure something out. Maybe Chuck can comment. But over a year after they spent the 3 months. Hmmm. It will be interesting to hear what was recovered, though from what has been written and passed down

Re: Floppy recovery

>200 disks, especially if they weren't in great shape, can take some time. I assume they wanted full data recovery using all possible means, >plus conversion of all the documents to a modern format. With one-of-a-kind stuff, you don't have the luxury of experimenting and playing around with it.

Re: Floppy recovery

On 2016-01-05 15:56, Terry Stewart wrote: I wonder how it could take them three months to figure something out. Maybe Chuck can comment. Yes, I would have thought an old MSDOS machine with a 360k 5.25 inch floppy drive plus Chuck's 22DISK program and the job could have been done in a day?

Re: Floppy recovery

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Lyle Bickley wrote: > I'm somewhat familiar with the Roddenberry floppies. They were not in a > standard format - so it was not just a matter of reading the floppies, > but developing software to read the specially formatted and encoded >

Re: Floppy recovery

On 01/05/2016 12:56 PM, Terry Stewart wrote: Yes, I would have thought an old MSDOS machine with a 360k 5.25 inch floppy drive plus Chuck's 22DISK program and the job could have been done in a day? Might be more too it than it seems maybe... I won't comment much other than to say that Mr.

Re: Floppy recovery

As someone who's dealt with Harlan Ellison on multiple fronts. I will tell you the chances he will burn those drawers is 50-50. On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:27 PM, jwsmobile wrote: > > I wonder how it could take them three months to figure something out. > Maybe Chuck can comment. >

RE: Floppy recovery

ts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: Floppy recovery I wonder how it could take them three months to figure something out.  Maybe Chuck can comment. But over a year after they spent the 3 months.  Hmmm.  It will be interesting to hear what was recovered, though from what has been w

Re: Floppy recovery

On Tue, 5 Jan 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote: Guess who Drivesavers sent the floppy images to for recovery? (Modesty forbids). But we've had a working relationship with them for a long time. Can you enlighten us as to what sort of system/disk format it was?

Re: Floppy recovery

of hundreds of drives (cloud), SSD, Smart Phones, etc. This includes those that have been purposely or accidentally erased and/or physically damaged. If a disk has all zeros written to it, as far as I know from what I've read there is no hope of recovering the data. There were rumors that the

RE: Floppy recovery

From: Jason Scott Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 1:53 PM > On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 3:27 PM, jwsmobile > wrote: >> On a tangent, from a lecture 35 years ago by Harlan Ellison, I hope all of >> his papers are preserved and transcribed. He had about 15 4 drawer >> cabinets of work

Re: Floppy recovery

On Tue, 5 Jan 2016 12:27:31 -0800 jwsmobile wrote: > I wonder how it could take them three months to figure something out. > Maybe Chuck can comment. > > But over a year after they spent the 3 months. Hmmm. It will be > interesting to hear what was recovered, though from

Re: Floppy recovery

Attempting to read floppies with the wrong kind of drive can also cause damage. Back in the day, people were all aflutter about drive rings and how having them or not having them caused damage when they read the floppy in a 'foreign' setting. There were rumors about head clearance and such also

Re: Floppy recovery

On 01/05/2016 01:21 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Tue, 5 Jan 2016, Chuck Guzis wrote: Guess who Drivesavers sent the floppy images to for recovery? (Modesty forbids). But we've had a working relationship with them for a long time. Can you enlighten us as to what sort of system/disk format it was?

Re: Floppy recovery

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> Can you enlighten us as to what sort of system/disk format it was? > > IIRC, it was several, mostly Japanese. I'd have to go back to my notes from > some time back. The picture of the one remaining whitebox with the two

Re: Floppy recovery

On 01/05/2016 1:15 PM, Ali wrote: Anyone know anything about the custom computer and the custom OS? Nor implying anything but Chuck do u have any insights? ;) Didn't Scotty leave his laptop behind when they were saving the whales? John ;-#)#

Re: Floppy recovery

On 01/05/2016 03:00 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: NSA has done substantial serious research on that and other recovery. 1) if the alignment of the head of the original recording and of the overwrite head are not a perfect match, then there can be some residual data somewhat off axis. 2) if the data