On 04/02/2019 09:49 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 4/1/19 7:45 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
can you show me an example? Long shot but I can at least check to see if I
have any in my 360 docs. I have mostly programming manuals and general
hardware docs but a stray ALD may be present.
On 04/01/2019 09:45 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
can you show me an example?
I think this may actually be a section of the "ALD"s for a
model /50:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/fe/2050/2050_Vol18_Sep72.pdf
And, this one has pretty detailed info on the microcode
flow, listing of
On 4/1/19 7:45 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> can you show me an example? Long shot but I can at least check to see if I
> have any in my 360 docs. I have mostly programming manuals and general
> hardware docs but a stray ALD may be present.
ALDs are 11x17, and are marked with the
As Paul said. ALDs are schematics down to the gate level basically. Necessary
to make a gate exact emulation, or debug and maintain a real machine. Used to
be sent with each and every machine, but sadly not often preserved apparently.
Fortunately our IBM 1401’s came with their ALDs. We refer to
can you show me an example? Long shot but I can at least check to see if I
have any in my 360 docs. I have mostly programming manuals and general
hardware docs but a stray ALD may be present.
On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 10:29 PM Paul Berger via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> On
On 2019-04-01 11:25 p.m., Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 8:59 PM Steve Malikoff via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
Marc said
Which brings us to the real problem: we don’t have 360 Model 50 ALDs.
Anyone has them?
Marc
And same for the Model 40 ALDs. All I
On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 8:59 PM Steve Malikoff via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Marc said
> > Which brings us to the real problem: we don’t have 360 Model 50 ALDs.
> Anyone has them?
> >
> > Marc
>
> And same for the Model 40 ALDs. All I have is one or two pages of the 2040
> ALD's and
Marc said
> Which brings us to the real problem: we don’t have 360 Model 50 ALDs. Anyone
> has them?
>
> Marc
And same for the Model 40 ALDs. All I have is one or two pages of the 2040
ALD's and some peripheral ALD's only
saved because I'd drawn artwork on the back, or they got used for book
On 3/31/2019 4:08 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> > From: William Donzelli
>
> > It is very likely IBM does not have the information anymore - at least
> > not in the archives. ... they simply did not keep much from that era.
> > It was probably disposed of back when IBM was
On 28/03/2019 17:46, Ken Shirriff via cctech wrote:
> I'm writing a S/360 Model 50 emulator that runs at the microcode level, in
> order to drive a Model 50 front panel accurately. I'm about 80% of the way
> there, but there are some microcode operations that I haven't figured out.
> So I figured
> From: William Donzelli
> It is very likely IBM does not have the information anymore - at least
> not in the archives. ... they simply did not keep much from that era.
> It was probably disposed of back when IBM was in trouble 30 years ago.
Which emphasizes that it's important
> My experience with IBM legal (who were actually quite communicative when
> I approached them) on that front with IBM 1410 manuals suggests to me
> that they will not ever give explicit permission, because nobody at IBM
> will ever by confident that they won't end up giving away some trade
>
On 3/30/2019 12:35 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> > From: Al Kossow
>
> > Decades later, people are still afraid to release them. I tried to get
> > 2065 ALDs from someone that had them and they wouldn't give them to me.
>
> Sounds like it's time to have someone high up at the
> Sounds like it's time to have someone high up at the CHM talk to someone
> at IBM to get an OK; if you only ask for permission, not for IBM to cough
> up the info themselves, that might be doable.
It is very likely IBM does not have the information anymore - at least
not in the archives. Maybe
> From: Al Kossow
> Decades later, people are still afraid to release them. I tried to get
> 2065 ALDs from someone that had them and they wouldn't give them to me.
Sounds like it's time to have someone high up at the CHM talk to someone
at IBM to get an OK; if you only ask for
On 3/29/19 9:12 PM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote:
> Which brings us to the real problem: we don’t have 360 Model 50 ALDs. Anyone
> has them?
I've been looking for years.
The few on bitsavers is all I've ever been able to get.
Decades later, people are still afraid to release them.
I tried
ssiccmp.org"
Subject: Re: IBM 360 Model 50 information?
On 03/28/2019 11:46 AM, Ken Shirriff via cctalk wrote:
I'm writing a S/360 Model 50 emulator that runs at the microcode level, in
order to drive a Model 50 front panel accurately. I'm about 80% of the way
there, but there are so
ycle.
Dwight
From: cctalk on behalf of Paul Koning via
cctalk
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2019 9:51 AM
To: Jon Elson; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: Ken Shirriff
Subject: Re: IBM 360 Model 50 information?
> On Mar 29, 2019, at 11:18 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk
> wrote:
> On Mar 29, 2019, at 11:18 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> ...
> Oh, one other issue is the 360's had no FFs. All storage elements were
> transparent latches, and they generally used a 4-phase clock.
The same is true for the CDC 6600. Not a big surprise; a transparent latch can
On 03/28/2019 11:46 AM, Ken Shirriff via cctalk wrote:
I'm writing a S/360 Model 50 emulator that runs at the microcode level, in
order to drive a Model 50 front panel accurately. I'm about 80% of the way
there, but there are some microcode operations that I haven't figured out.
So I figured I'd
I'm writing a S/360 Model 50 emulator that runs at the microcode level, in
order to drive a Model 50 front panel accurately. I'm about 80% of the way
there, but there are some microcode operations that I haven't figured out.
So I figured I'd ask if anyone has obscure Model 50 manuals that aren't
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