On 27 May 2016 at 19:29, Ali wrote:
> So somewhat OT - I've setup an 8 year old w/ an IBM PC XT w/ CGA. To say he
> is less than impressed is understating things :).
Honestly, not wishing to be off-putting or anything, but that was a
widely-agreed crap computer in 1981 & it's about 3 orders of m
On Sat, Jun 04, 2016 at 05:43:44PM +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 03:04:07PM -0700, Ali wrote:
> > > I was going to suggest he introduce the lad to a wide range of
> > > languages, especially non-procedural ones, and outliers such as Forth
> > > and APL. It's much easier to gr
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 03:04:07PM -0700, Ali wrote:
> > I was going to suggest he introduce the lad to a wide range of
> > languages, especially non-procedural ones, and outliers such as Forth
> > and APL. It's much easier to grasp the concepts (and joy) of things
> > like functional programming
>
>
> Make sure you tell him that "cloud" is just a fancy term for "somebody
> else's computer". :)
>
Or as I like to call it, "Socialized Computing". Except that unlike civic
socialism, you don't +necessarily+ run out of somebody else's compute
cycles.. ;-)
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 11:04 AM, gene
On Fri, 27 May 2016, Ali wrote:
I'd like him to understand why things work they way they do, that the cloud
is not a magical thing, and that at a certain level an
iPad=PC=5110=System/360.
Make sure you tell him that "cloud" is just a fancy term for "somebody
else's computer". :)
g.
--
Proud
Cameron Kaiser writes:
> The problem is few folks use it anymore
You might be surprised: NetLogo (Logo on top of the JVM, derived from
MIT's StarLogo) is very widely used for agent-based complex systems
simulation -- for example, I've worked on a project recently that's used
NetLogo as a modelli
> > > Could that actually have been for the VIC? An admittedly simple (and
> > > restrictive) high-level language coded in CBM BASIC, with like 3K of
> > > RAM? =)
> >
> > I dunno about the VIC-20, but COMPUTE! had one for the Commodore 64 which
> > overlaid on BASIC. Clever idea I thought at the t
@Cameron
Pilot for the C-64 does sound much more plausible, yes.. And likewise, I
thought it was a very nice idea.
But hm.. other than formatting text, don't both the VIC-20 and C-64 share
the same CBM BASIC version? No reason that PILOT for C-64 couldn't run on
VIC, with enough memory expansion,
> Speaking of LOGO (and the Terrapin..), I assume PILOT is still around in
> some form? Correct me here, but I believe that a +BASIC+ implementation of
> PILOT was released for either the VIC-20 (??) or the C-64. I recall typing
> it in, back in the early 1980s, just for kicks.
>
> Could that actu
Speaking of LOGO (and the Terrapin..), I assume PILOT is still around in
some form? Correct me here, but I believe that a +BASIC+ implementation of
PILOT was released for either the VIC-20 (??) or the C-64. I recall typing
it in, back in the early 1980s, just for kicks.
Could that actually have be
On 05/27/2016 02:52 PM, Jay West wrote:
>
> At the risk of being flamed... I'll mention that if the kid is more
> visually driven, you might try introducing him to an Arduino Uno or
> similar. Something he can see the results of his code in lights and
> dials.
One of my fondest memories of my lon
> > I learned a language called "Logo" first. It was taught by volunteer
> > instructors at a local community center. I was 7, and the minimum age
> > was supposed to be 10, but they let me in anyway. I enjoyed it. It came
> > with a few media functions that made programming more fun since it was
>
On 5/27/2016 4:12 PM, Swift Griggs wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016, ben wrote:
But back then you could find the BARE hardware... with the latest chips
how do your get there? Ben.
hehe, Use old hardware? I dunno. Good point.
-Swift
Checks that his favorite supplier still sells 74LSXX's...
Now wh
> On May 27, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
>
> And THAT is the best part of everything.
I.e. get derailed! Lose complete track of what you set out to do. Discover
the unexpected, instead.
Break the kit! Make LEDs burn out. Then figure out why. That's what learning
is.
> On May 27, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Tapley, Mark wrote:
>
> but it has a lot of potential to get distracted from what I think you are
> aiming for.
And THAT is the best part of everything.
On May 27, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
> There are lots of Pi-based kits out there created for this very purpose. E.g.:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=20410
Points to multiple links on the “Gertboard” accessory. That adds lots of
input/output control and
Have you considered David Lien's book?
One version of it came bundled with the TRS80.
On Fri, 27 May 2016, Ali wrote:
I am not familiar with his book. I will look around and see f I can find a
used copy on the usual sites.
https://archive.org/details/Level_1_Users_Manual_1977_David_Lien
but,
> On May 27, 2016, at 3:04 PM, Ali wrote:
>
> Yes, of course that makes assumptions on my knowledge level as well
> which does not quite extend to Forth or APL.
So learn with him, already!
> On May 27, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Jay West wrote:
>
> At the risk of being flamed... I'll mention that if the kid is more visually
> driven, you might try introducing him to an Arduino Uno or similar. Something
> he can see the results of his code in lights and dials.
And ultimately, the whole p
On Fri, 27 May 2016, ben wrote:
> But back then you could find the BARE hardware... with the latest chips
> how do your get there? Ben.
hehe, Use old hardware? I dunno. Good point.
-Swift
> I learned a language called "Logo" first. It was taught by volunteer
> instructors at a local community center. I was 7, and the minimum age
> was supposed to be 10, but they let me in anyway. I enjoyed it. It came
> with a few media functions that made programming more fun since it was
> pretty
> I can suggest "Instant BASIC: Freeze-dried Computer Programming: Jerald
> R.
> Brown" as a good kids entry-level text. Like numerous other 1980s era
> DIY computer books, it's probably available for free download from
> archive.org.
Thanks. I will check out archive.org and see what they have as
> Most of the Usborne books from the 80s are available on Usborne's web
> site as PDFs -- "Simple BASIC" (for younger readers) or "Introduction
> to Computer Programming" (for slightly older readers) might fit the
> bill:
>
> http://www.usborne.com/catalogue/feature-page/computer-and-coding-
> boo
> I was going to suggest he introduce the lad to a wide range of
> languages, especially non-procedural ones, and outliers such as Forth
> and APL. It's much easier to grasp the concepts (and joy) of things
> like functional programming if you're exposed to them before
> confirmation bias limits y
> Have you considered David Lien's book?
> One version of it came bundled with the TRS80.
Fred,
I am not familiar with his book. I will look around and see f I can find a
used copy on the usual sites.
-Ali
Mark,
Tell me about it. In the age of streaming and instant gratification nobody
wants to work to get anything anymore. I can't really blame him either: why
would you want to run "Hello World" when you can touch your iPad and be
playing Minecraft before the 5151 monitor has even warmed up to show
> At the risk of being flamed... I'll mention that if the kid is more
> visually driven, you might try introducing him to an Arduino Uno or
> similar. Something he can see the results of his code in lights and
> dials.
>
Jay,
Baby steps - first I got to show him what a chip looks like then we ca
At the risk of being flamed... I'll mention that if the kid is more visually
driven, you might try introducing him to an Arduino Uno or similar. Something
he can see the results of his code in lights and dials.
J
On 5/27/2016 2:15 PM, Swift Griggs wrote:
I learned ASM as a kid (I've never become that great at it, but I get by).
As a child, I had so few people around who knew anything about computers,
nobody was there to say "that's too hard". I had a book that came with a
timex 1500 my mom got at a gara
> I learned BASIC around that age. I used the Usborne book, which has
> been made available as a PDF file by the publisher:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxv0SsvibDMTUXdYTnRaTy1LLVE/view
Thanks for the linkage. That looks exactly like something I am looking for. The
80s graphics are a bit ou
> On May 27, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
>
> Those who write APL programs ae sadists, and those who like fixing them when
> they go wrong are masochists
> ... Though I believe Iverson wanted to call it "The Programming
> Language"
I was going to suggest he introduce the lad to a
and APL is fun!
On Fri, 27 May 2016, Dave Wade wrote:
Those who write APL programs ae sadists,
IFF they make anybody else look at them.
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred
Cisin
> Sent: 27 May 2016 21:44
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: RE: Need Rec: Book to teach about computers and BASIC at an eight
&
Drlegendre wrote...
-
And BASIC is great, but as soon as the kid
grasps the concepts, move him to Perl or Python ASAP.
-
On Fri, 27 May 2016, Jay West wrote:
I suggest instead...
"BASIC is great, but as soon as the kid grasps the concepts, move him to assembly
language ASAP."
*grin*
On Fri, 27 May 2016, Jay West wrote:
> I suggest instead... "BASIC is great, but as soon as the kid grasps the
> concepts, move him to assembly language ASAP."
I learned a language called "Logo" first. It was taught by volunteer
instructors at a local community center. I was 7, and the minimum a
> Of course, rather than expose him to 8088 assembler, I’d recommend
> you run right out and grab a used TRS-80 Color Computer - cheap,
> and 6809 assembly is very very nice - no segment registers.
> The downside of *that* is that if he ever decides to use the “Sign Extend”
> instruction, you
On May 27, 2016, at 2:37 PM, Jay West wrote:
> Drlegendre wrote...
> -
> And BASIC is great, but as soon as the kid grasps the concepts, move him to
> Perl or Python ASAP.
> -
>
> I suggest instead...
> "BASIC is great, but as soon as the kid grasps the concepts, move him to
> assemb
> And BASIC is great, but as soon as the kid grasps the concepts, move him to
> Perl or Python ASAP. Basic -> Perl is very easy, heck you can even use line
> numbers if you want..
I don't claim to be Larry Wall himself (having had lunch with him a number of
times, he has too many dietary restricti
Ali,
generating interest in the topic is probably the single most critical
step you will take. That is where I’ve had the most trouble, and from your
first paragraph, sounds like that is your first stumbling block, too. Here are
things that might help:
1) Provide him with problems (lots
Drlegendre wrote...
-
And BASIC is great, but as soon as the kid grasps the concepts, move him to
Perl or Python ASAP.
-
I suggest instead...
"BASIC is great, but as soon as the kid grasps the concepts, move him to
assembly language ASAP."
*grin*
I'm only 10% kidding lol
J
"Ali" writes:
> I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good book that gets the
> basic stuff out of the way (what is the CPU, memory, storage,
> etc. what are different the parts called, etc.) and maybe another one
> that teaches an intro to BASIC written for a very young reader?
Most of th
I can suggest "Instant BASIC: Freeze-dried Computer Programming: Jerald R.
Brown" as a good kids entry-level text. Like numerous other 1980s era DIY
computer books, it's probably available for free download from archive.org.
I also have a spare copy.
And BASIC is great, but as soon as the kid gras
like a god!
Cindy
-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ali
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 12:29 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Subject: Need Rec: Book to teach about computers and BASIC at an eight year
old level
S
computers and BASIC at an eight year
old level
So somewhat OT - I've setup an 8 year old w/ an IBM PC XT w/ CGA. To say he
is less than impressed is understating things :). However, I am determined
that he will learn basic computer terminology, architecture, history (i.e.
how we got here) and a
Trombetta wrote a book
"BASIC for students using the IBM PC"
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 1:29 PM, Ali wrote:
> So somewhat OT - I've setup an 8 year old w/ an IBM PC XT w/ CGA. To say he
> is less than impressed is understating things :). However, I am determined
> that he will learn basic computer
So somewhat OT - I've setup an 8 year old w/ an IBM PC XT w/ CGA. To say he
is less than impressed is understating things :). However, I am determined
that he will learn basic computer terminology, architecture, history (i.e.
how we got here) and at least get his feet wet with programming by learni
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