Thanks Chunk. I am going to see if Manchester University library has any old documentation that might help.
Cheers Peter On 17 November 2017 at 18:00, <cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctalk-ow...@classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and > HPIB Floppy Drive (Geoffrey Reed) > 2. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and > HPIB Floppy Drive (Chuck Guzis) > 3. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and > HPIB Floppy Drive (Liam Proven) > 4. Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and > HPIB Floppy Drive (Fred Cisin) > 5. TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs (Jason T) > 6. Re: HP 9836U processor mystery... (Josh Dersch) > 7. Re: Playing with HP2640B (CuriousMarc) > 8. Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? (CuriousMarc) > 9. Re: Playing with HP2640B (Christian Corti) > 10. Re: Playing with HP2640B (David Collins) > 11. Re: Playing with HP2640B (David Collins) > 12. Re: Playing with HP2640B (Mattis Lind) > 13. RE: Playing with HP2640B (Rik Bos) > 14. DR-DOS (Liam Proven) > 15. Re: TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs (Jason T) > 16. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven) > 17. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven) > 18. Re: DR-DOS (william degnan) > 19. Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? (Anders Nelson) > 20. Re: DR-DOS (geneb) > 21. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven) > 22. Re: DR-DOS (Liam Proven) > 23. Re: DR-DOS (geneb) > 24. Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive > (Eric Schlaepfer) > 25. Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s (Peter Allan) > 26. Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive (Paul Berger) > 27. Re: Playing with HP2640B (Christian Corti) > 28. Re: Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s (Chuck Guzis) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:30:08 -0800 > From: Geoffrey Reed <geo...@zipcon.net> > To: Fred Cisin <ci...@xenosoft.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and > HPIB Floppy Drive > Message-ID: <d63332e6.5367f%geo...@zipcon.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > > > On 11/15/17, 9:44 AM, "cctalk on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk" > <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org on behalf of cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >Can you name another 20 exceptions? (Chuck and Tony probably can) > > > > > >-- > >Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com > > > ?Floptical? disks 720 rpm 1.6 Mb/s transfer 1250 TPI and 25MB unformatted > capacity > > LS-120 and LS-240 (which sadly I can?t remember the specs of :( > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:51:19 -0800 > From: Chuck Guzis <ccl...@sydex.com> > To: Geoffrey Reed via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and > HPIB Floppy Drive > Message-ID: <a5877e73-9b6c-f5fa-afdf-ef59f1f6c...@sydex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > On 11/16/2017 12:30 PM, Geoffrey Reed via cctalk wrote: > > > ?Floptical? disks 720 rpm 1.6 Mb/s transfer 1250 TPI and 25MB > unformatted > > capacity > > > > LS-120 and LS-240 (which sadly I can?t remember the specs of :( > > How about the Caleb "it" drive (UHD144): > > http://www.obsoletemedia.org/caleb-uhd144/ > > I've still got a stack of those drives and media. > > Or the DTC "TakeTen" drive (got the drive but no media), or the Qume > Hyperflex drive or the Kodak/Drivetec floppy drives or the DTC TeamMate > for Apple... > > The list is very long indeed. > > --Chuck > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:28:19 +0100 > From: Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> > To: Geoffrey Reed <geo...@zipcon.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and > HPIB Floppy Drive > Message-ID: > <CAMTenCE8EoxJxw_W_wBz+53Hfp752Ji2+kw60X8LKxoecvon3A@ > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On 16 November 2017 at 21:30, Geoffrey Reed via cctalk > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > ?Floptical? disks 720 rpm 1.6 Mb/s transfer 1250 TPI and 25MB > unformatted > > capacity > > Just FYI, your quote marks render on Linux as superscript 2s. > > Using an Apple device? You might want to turn off smart quotes... > > https://www.jordanmerrick.com/posts/ios-11-smart-punctuation/ > > http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/09/26/tips-turn- > off-ios-11-smart-punctuation-to-avoid-data-entry-problems > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 15:27:53 -0800 (PST) > From: Fred Cisin <ci...@xenosoft.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Drive capacity names (Was: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and > HPIB Floppy Drive > Message-ID: <pine.lnx.4.64.1711161437490.4...@shell.lmi.net> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > >>> No, the 9122C has two high-density, two-sided 80 cylinder drives. A > drive > >>> has no capacity, this is the function of the on-disk format. > >>> ;-) > >> > >> "high-density" is even more meaningless than referring to them by their > >> capacity in a given format. It is a BOGUS marketing term! > > On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: > > Fred, you should know by now that you don't need to tell *me* the correct > > definitions and terms. > > I know that, but I was addressing the entire group with my rant, and not > everybody is as closely familiar with these details as you are. > > > And with "high-density", I didn't mean the media capacity but the analog > > recording aspects like coercivity, write current, frequency and so on. > > Actually, when speaking about the MEDIA, it is much easier to create a > name that is both accurate and unambiguous. > For example, with 5.25" disks, we have "5.25 inch with 300 Oersted" and > "5.25 inch with 600 Oersted". > Of course, if somebody wants to be difficult, there are still variant > forms, including both 10 and 16 sector hard-sectored, Amlyn 600 Oersted > with special cutouts for the disk changer, Twiggy, no-notch disks for some > minor tamper resistance in software distribution, etc. > > >> Unformatted capacity would be a more correct nomenclature, although ... > > Unformatted capacity doesn't tell you much without reference to the > recording > > layout, i.e. no. of tracks, modulation, frequency and so on. > > True. > > >> Some specifications: > >> 5.25" MFM "High Density" was 360 RPM at 500,000 bits per second. (about > 1M > >> unformatted per side) > > > > What about 5?" FM "High Density" at 360 RPM? > > By "Some specifications", I meant specifications of SOME examples of the > most common form of each size. I was absolutely not intending it to be > an exhaustive, comprehensive list of all possibilities. > > > > The Amiga (more exactly, the "HD" Chinon FZ-357A drives used in Amigas) > > switched to 150 RPM to keep the raw bit rate at 250kbits/s. > > THAT is exactly what I was including as examples in my later "exceptions" > list. Although a different disk size, that is the same engineering kludge > as the Weltec 5.25" 180RPM drive. > > >> 3.5" MFM "ED" (vertical recording?/barrium ferrite) were 300 RPM at > >> 1,000,000 bits per second. (2M unformatted per side) NeXT referred to > >> theirs by the unformatted capacity: 4M, further confusing their users. > > What about FM? > > Again, just listing examples of most common, NOT intending it as a list of > all possibilities that were theoretically possible. I have never seen an > ED disk recorded FM, and do not believe that there was ever a commercial > system that used that. If you know of one, please give us the details! > > > >> Can you name another 20 exceptions? (Chuck and Tony probably can) > > > > Do you want me to start with things like 100tpi drives, GCR, M?FM, > > hard-sectored and other crazy formats? > > It can be a very long list. I was trying to stick with ones that were > very close to the main branch of our "current" evolutionary tree, but > there isn't a clear boundary. I estimate that there were approximately > 2500 different microcomputer floppy disk formats, with a large portion of > those being variant forms, not just different choices of number and size > of sectors, directory location and structure, etc. > I implemented just over 400 formats in XenoCopy that were straight-forward > to handle with IBM PC hardware. Those are not all that could have been > implemented, nor does it deny the existence of many variants, or > completely different ones that are not feasable with PC. > > > Just accept that I am not as dumb as you may think. > > I have NEVER thought that you were dumb. Everything that I have seen > of your posts has been competent and well-informed. But, I don't think > that you follow what I was attempting to convey. > > I wanted to: > 1) rant about marketing creating terminology, including "double density" > and "high density". And creating a new definition of Megabyte (1,024,000) > for the "1.44M" format (1,474,560 bytes/1.40625Mebibytes) > > 2) state my opinion that using the specific one that comprises at least > 75%? of the use of a given configuration as the name for that > configuration creates a name that is admittedly inaccurate, and fraught > with exceptions, nevertheless relatively unambiguous, at least to the > extent that purchases will usually be usable. > > If I buy "360K diskette", it will usually be the 300 Oersted 5.25 inch, > and be the closest of what is available to buy for 87.5K TRS80, > Apple2, PET, Osborne, PC 160K/180K/320K/360K, DEC Rainbow, Canon AS100, > Elcompco, Eagle, Otrona, etc. > Yes, there were people who used 41 or 42 tracks of a 40 track drive, but I > consider those to be "corner cases", to be considered as alterations, not > as the main form. > Admittedly, there were differences in testing between SSSD, DSSD, DSSD, > DSDD, and 48tpi v 96tpi marketing of disks with the same chmical > formulation. Purchasing diskettes now for something such as a DEC > Rainbow, I would settle for the 360K testing. > > If I buy "720K 3.5 inch diskette", I expect to receive 600 Oersted 3.5" > > If I buy "1.44M Diskette", I expect to receive a "HD" 3.5 inch diskette, > with about 720 to 780 Oersted. > > > BUT, as you've pointed out, when we refer to the DRIVE, we can't really be > certain that it won't be misinterpreted unless we list every spec that we > expect it to conform to. Or order by manufacturers model number. > Shugart/Matsushita 455/465/475 > Tandon TM100-2/TM100-4 > Teac 55B, 55F, 55G, 55FG, etc. > (EXAMPLES. NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS A "complete" LIST) > > BTW, Tandon made a 100tpi drive (TM100-4M) for Micropolis compatability, > but many/most? of those are mislabelled "TM100-4" (missing that critical > 'M' modifier!) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 21:16:08 -0600 > From: Jason T <silent...@gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs > Message-ID: > <CAEfH1SGBOxKUXW3rQmNGaLxsnVDZ3=D-Pe-+A9NTLRFtjJ+itg@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I have imaged disks and scanned docs for an old software authoring > tool from Texas Instruments, "NaturalLink". It runs on early IBM PCs > and was included with some docs I was given for the TI Professional > Computer, an almost-PC clone. There are a number of ads and articles > about NaturalLink in the various trade mags available via Google > Books. > > The docs are here: > > http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/index.php?dir=%2Fcomputing%2FTI/NaturalLink > > And the disk images are here: > > http://nocarrier.net/archive/floppy_images/PC/TI/NaturalLink/ > > Regular 360k MS-DOS images. I haven't tried them in DOSBox yet but > it'll probably run there. > > I have the original manuals, along with some other Professional > Computer manuals that were already on Bitsavers, free for shipping if > anyone wants them. They're not light. I can include the NaturalLink > disks as well, otherwise those will stay in my library. Unfortunately > I don't have any of the (special format) OS media for the > Professional. > > Enjoy! > > -j > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:11:57 -0800 > From: Josh Dersch <dersc...@gmail.com> > Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: HP 9836U processor mystery... > Message-ID: > <CADBZjLZ9AeUWiQhuo_-F+xZjPA=p9De=MDG3n+km0tRWWyTAfQ@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:59 PM, Tony Duell <ard.p850...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 4:52 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk > > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > I'm curious if other people out there with 9836U's can confirm whether > > their > > > machine has a 68000 or a 68010 in it, I'd just like to settle the > > internet > > > discrepancy once and for all :). > > > > Mine identifies the CPU as a 68010 in the power-on diagnostic. But from > > what > > I remember the PGA socket could also take a 68012 (with extra address > pins > > brought out). I don't have such a chip, so no idea what it would identify > > as. > > > > I picked up a 68012 (cheap) and stuck in in the 9836U this evening. It > works, and is identified as a 68012 during power-up diagnostics. > > So now we know. Now what am I gonna do with all that address space? :) > > - Josh > > > > > > > -tony > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:12:54 -0800 > From: CuriousMarc <curiousma...@gmail.com> > To: Mattis Lind <mattisl...@gmail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B > Message-ID: <c27c94aa-8ceb-4330-9d51-760b18a13...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > What did you do for the screen mold? Hot wire method to separate CRT from > implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the glue? > Marc > > > > On Nov 15, 2017, at 11:48 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > I have been working on a HP 2640B terminal. It was mostly about fixing the > "screen mold" problem and cleaning up the liquids that had been seeping out > from the screen down into the bottom. > > The small coaxial wire that connects the 4.9152 MHz clock signal form the > power supply (never seen a crystal controlled SMPSU before!) to the > backplane was broken off, but after fixing that the terminal worked fine. > Just needed some adjustment to the brightness. > > With the correct terminfo installed it worked quite well as a serial > terminal to a Linux box. > > Then I tried the short 8008 programs that Christian Corti pointed to > > http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/hp2644/diag.html > > and > > ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/hp/hp2644 > > I tried both a couple of times. The terminal enter the LOADER mode but just > hangs completely at the end. I tried different baudrates but no difference. > > The selftest STATUS line tell me 40<802 which should indicate that there > are 4k memory in the terminal. However there should be 5k since there is > one 4k board and one combined control store and 1 k RAM board. Maybe there > is a fault in the 1k SRAM? The terminal doesn't complain though. > > Regardless, the programs listed either starts at adress 30000 or 36000 > which should then be within the available space. > > The question is, should these program work for the HP2640B as well? It has > a 8008 but my guess is that the firmware is different from the 2644. What > is the joint experience regarding this? Has anyone ran these small programs > above on a HP2640B? > > The HP 2640B firmware consists of four EA 4900 ROM chips which annoyingly > are not anything like normal EPROMs. So dumping will need special > considerations. > > Has anyone dumped the HP 2640B firmware already? I didn't find it on > bitsavers. > > /Mattis > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:25:43 -0800 > From: CuriousMarc <curiousma...@gmail.com> > To: Ethan via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? > Message-ID: <dce4c2e5-58cf-4cef-87f0-b0b11833d...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I use shadow boxes from Michael's to display my boards. They have many > kinds > http://www.michaels.com/-black-shadowbox-studio-decor/ > M10322044.html?dwvar_M10322044_color=Black > Marc > > > > On Nov 16, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Ethan via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > This message has no content. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:09:58 +0100 (CET) > From: Christian Corti <c...@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B > Message-ID: <alpine.deb.2.20.1711170954380.25...@linuxserv.home> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, CuriousMarc wrote: > > What did you do for the screen mold? Hot wire method to separate CRT > > from implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the > > glue? Marc > > What we did on one of our 2645 terminals was the hot wire method. We then > attached the "implosion" window to the inner of the case. > > BTW is it really an implosion protection? I don't think so because since > the 60s, practically all CRTs have a so-called "integral implosion > protection" (thick glass on the front and metal band around the edge). I > think it is just an anti-glare filter glass. OTOH American CRTs may be > completely different in this aspect compared to European ones. > > Christian > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 20:10:25 +1100 > From: David Collins <davidkcolli...@gmail.com> > To: CuriousMarc <curiousma...@gmail.com>, "General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B > Message-ID: <45a317c7-55d2-49bc-892d-460322c6e...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Marc, in addition to Mattis? forthcoming reply, my recent experience with > a moldy 2624A was that the hot wire method was very poor. Too hard to get > the wire in, didn?t melt the ?glue? very well, smelly. Gave up when the > wire broke. > > What worked best for me was a flat blade screwdriver that was small enough > to sit sideways in the gap between the front glass and the tube. I sliced > sections of the glue and picked them out with a hook. I also squirted in a > combination of RP7 and household cleaner but not sure either did anything > other than lubricate the surfaces - they may have helped lift the glue a > bit. > > My ?glue? was like a layer of silicon rubber which hung on for as long as > possible but I got it all off without any damage. > > I replaced the front glass and held it on with a bead of black silicon > rubber used for shower glass. I spaced it from the tube with pieces of wire > around the edges and pulled them out when the silicon dried. > > Worked well for me but keen to hear how Mattis went. > > I didn?t try the hot water soak but it would probably help. > > David Collins > > > > On 17 Nov 2017, at 6:12 pm, CuriousMarc via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > What did you do for the screen mold? Hot wire method to separate CRT > from implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the glue? > > Marc > > > > > > > > On Nov 15, 2017, at 11:48 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > I have been working on a HP 2640B terminal. It was mostly about fixing > the > > "screen mold" problem and cleaning up the liquids that had been seeping > out > > from the screen down into the bottom. > > > > The small coaxial wire that connects the 4.9152 MHz clock signal form the > > power supply (never seen a crystal controlled SMPSU before!) to the > > backplane was broken off, but after fixing that the terminal worked fine. > > Just needed some adjustment to the brightness. > > > > With the correct terminfo installed it worked quite well as a serial > > terminal to a Linux box. > > > > Then I tried the short 8008 programs that Christian Corti pointed to > > > > http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/ > dev_en/hp2644/diag.html > > > > and > > > > ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/hp/hp2644 > > > > I tried both a couple of times. The terminal enter the LOADER mode but > just > > hangs completely at the end. I tried different baudrates but no > difference. > > > > The selftest STATUS line tell me 40<802 which should indicate that there > > are 4k memory in the terminal. However there should be 5k since there is > > one 4k board and one combined control store and 1 k RAM board. Maybe > there > > is a fault in the 1k SRAM? The terminal doesn't complain though. > > > > Regardless, the programs listed either starts at adress 30000 or 36000 > > which should then be within the available space. > > > > The question is, should these program work for the HP2640B as well? It > has > > a 8008 but my guess is that the firmware is different from the 2644. What > > is the joint experience regarding this? Has anyone ran these small > programs > > above on a HP2640B? > > > > The HP 2640B firmware consists of four EA 4900 ROM chips which annoyingly > > are not anything like normal EPROMs. So dumping will need special > > considerations. > > > > Has anyone dumped the HP 2640B firmware already? I didn't find it on > > bitsavers. > > > > /Mattis > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 20:13:00 +1100 > From: David Collins <davidkcolli...@gmail.com> > To: Christian Corti <c...@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>, "General > Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B > Message-ID: <555c99b3-d2b1-4d83-97e7-025672f96...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Christian do you know the gauge of the wire you used ? And the current? > > Maybe I should try that approach again! > > David Collins > > > > On 17 Nov 2017, at 8:09 pm, Christian Corti via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, CuriousMarc wrote: > >> What did you do for the screen mold? Hot wire method to separate CRT > from implosion window? Put the CRT in a hot water bath? Chip at the glue? > Marc > > > > What we did on one of our 2645 terminals was the hot wire method. We > then attached the "implosion" window to the inner of the case. > > > > BTW is it really an implosion protection? I don't think so because since > the 60s, practically all CRTs have a so-called "integral implosion > protection" (thick glass on the front and metal band around the edge). I > think it is just an anti-glare filter glass. OTOH American CRTs may be > completely different in this aspect compared to European ones. > > > > Christian > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 11:52:47 +0100 > From: Mattis Lind <mattisl...@gmail.com> > To: David Collins <davidkcolli...@gmail.com>, "General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B > Message-ID: > <CABr82SJ6oWNN7Ga6LJ=5LYfoZj3EYStYDrFatZGBXBhoSCp5Gw@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > The screen on my HP2640 had degenerated quite far. It was only a spot in > the middle, 2 by 4 inch, that still attached the glass to the CRT. I used a > thin fish fillet knife to dig through the remaining glue. > > Before > > https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23622163_10155696765784985_ > 6518064439030378363_n.jpg?oh=44cbf7f7f00d6e25155c208124e20a38&oe=5AA7349D > > The result after: > > https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23621971_10155696757184985_ > 1959733265676657917_n.jpg?oh=36a20689c0fb5a16de7fc4df138a40e0&oe=5A9993B1 > > > Anyhow, I researched the glue a bit. The glue is, as far as I understand, > PVAc (PolyVinylAcetate, sometimes also known as PVA). PVAc is not soluble > in water. It takes quite high temperature to melt it. However PVAc is > soluble in many esters. I bought some Butylacetate. It dissolves sample > bits of glue from HP2640 quite well and rapidly. Butylacetate has quite > high boiling temperature (about 120 degrees centigrade) and thus does not > evaporate that quickly. So my idea is now to test on a 2645 screen or VR201 > screen by adding some butylacetate and seal with some thin plastic wrap > foil and let it dissolve a bit. Then use the fish fillet knife again and > repeat the process. > > /Mattis > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:12:29 +0100 > From: "Rik Bos" <hp-...@xs4all.nl> > To: "'Mattis Lind'" <mattisl...@gmail.com>, "'General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Playing with HP2640B > Message-ID: <004401d35f9d$57dcf900$0796eb00$@xs4all.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I did it by heating the crt to about 50-60 degrees celsius and used a > putty-knife. > https://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix/albums/72157689357633754 > The photos are from a Philips P2000M system but I did it the same way with > my 264X terminals and 9845's systems. > It takes about half an hour to heat and separate the screen from the crt . > > -Rik > > > The screen on my HP2640 had degenerated quite far. It was only a spot in > the > > middle, 2 by 4 inch, that still attached the glass to the CRT. I used a > thin fish fillet > > knife to dig through the remaining glue. > > > > Before > > > > https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0- > > 9/23622163_10155696765784985_6518064439030378363_n.jpg?oh=44cbf7f7f > > 00d6e25155c208124e20a38&oe=5AA7349D > > > > The result after: > > > > https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0- > > 9/23621971_10155696757184985_1959733265676657917_n.jpg?oh=36a20689 > > c0fb5a16de7fc4df138a40e0&oe=5A9993B1 > > > > > > Anyhow, I researched the glue a bit. The glue is, as far as I > understand, PVAc > > (PolyVinylAcetate, sometimes also known as PVA). PVAc is not soluble in > water. > > It takes quite high temperature to melt it. However PVAc is soluble in > many > > esters. I bought some Butylacetate. It dissolves sample bits of glue > from HP2640 > > quite well and rapidly. Butylacetate has quite high boiling temperature > (about > > 120 degrees centigrade) and thus does not evaporate that quickly. So my > idea is > > now to test on a 2645 screen or VR201 screen by adding some butylacetate > and > > seal with some thin plastic wrap foil and let it dissolve a bit. Then > use the fish > > fillet knife again and repeat the process. > > > > /Mattis > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 14:30:20 +0100 > From: Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> > To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: DR-DOS > Message-ID: > <CAMTenCEZycvAXZbfE8Zcz-_CE6Z70D5OTdGLMkHuDpBGJvZutQ@ > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I hope this is vintage enough. > > I've been playing around some more with my projects to create VMs / > bootable USB keys with PC DOS 7.1 and DR-DOS. > > Right now I'm focusing on DR-DOS 7.1 and the DR OpenDOS Enhancement > Project, because that's FOSS and AFAICS it can be redistributed, which > I can't with DR-DOS 7.02/7.03/7.04/7.05 or DR-DOS 8/8.1, which were > commercially licensed. > > I found a download of the last build released: > > https://archiveos.org/drdos/ > > First, it's the wrong size. VirtualBox can't mount it. VMware can. > > I truncated it to exactly 2880 sectors using the advice from ``jleg094'' > here: > > https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39141 > > VBox mounts that. But it won't boot, nor in VMware -- it just > displays 2 dots and freezes. > > Embarrassingly late in the troubleshooting process, I've found why. > > I didn't think to check what was on the image! Foolish of me. > > I mounted it on a pre-booted VM and looked, and it's blank! There's > nothing in the image at all. > > So, I mounted the empty image file as a loop device, copied the boot > files in there and then the rest of the files in the distro archive. > > And lo, it works! It boots my VM just fine, and it's now running 7.01-08. > > All I need to do now is work out how to make the hard disk bootable, > and I'm in business. > > The DR-DOS 7 SYS command won't do it, as the files aren't named > IBMBIOS.COM and IBMSYS.COM -- they're DRBIO.SYS and DRSYS.SYS. > > I copied them to the expected names. SYS completes but the disk won't boot. > > Next step will be to try with Norton Disk Doctor. > > Anyway, if anyone wants a bootable diskette image with DR-DOS 7.01-08, > complete with FAT32 support -- apparently it can even boot from it -- > let me know. > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:28:21 -0600 > From: Jason T <silent...@gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: TI NaturalLink Disks and Docs > Message-ID: > <CAEfH1SFfc8ne599yLNgS2NJ4pS3TF_mba0CxZpMXuFXbyx2fEg@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Nov 16, 2017 21:16, "Jason T" <silent...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I have the original manuals, along with some other Professional > Computer manuals that were already on Bitsavers, free for shipping if > anyone wants them. They're not light. > > > Oops, forgot to mention location. I'm in the USA, near Chicago. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:10:21 +0100 > From: Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> > To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: DR-DOS > Message-ID: > <CAMTenCFFB4RK7vJGqR=mupppQpwHPiMbuehL-BX_XYG5tJfOeg@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Might be more helpful to include downloads! > > I'm still working on VMs, but I know have bootable diskette images of > both. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time either has > been made available. > > DR-DOS 7.08 is here: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz8nrdv7h4sgr6o/drdep7018.zip?dl=0 > > You'll need the rest of DR-DOS 7.01 to install a complete OS but > that's widely available. > > A bootable PC DOS 7.1 diskette image is here: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsujtvp0gs44qcx/PCDOS71.vfd?dl=0 > > This is a VirtualBox disk image, containing the PC-DOS 7.1 files from > the IBM ServerGuide Scripting Toolkit, as made available by IBM and > described here: > > http://toogam.com/software/archive/opsys/dos/ibmpcdos/getpcd71.htm > > If you get that first, AIUI that gives you a licence to a personal-use > copy. I have not modified these files in any way except to combine the > separately-downloadable files and the boot disk image, and to remove > any non-PC DOS files from the disk image. > > Again, the rest of the OS must be taken from a copy of PC DOS 7.01. > That too is widely available. > > Feedback welcomed. > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:12:08 +0100 > From: Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> > To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: DR-DOS > Message-ID: > <CAMTenCH-N2WVbDffCsAdHixyMrm+cw1WBB=OqVoiR3WL7F=yJw@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > It is *not* my day. I don't know how a copy-and-paste of some plain > text magically acquired attachments; that was not intentional. My > apologies. > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:12:55 -0500 > From: william degnan <billdeg...@gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org>, Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: DR-DOS > Message-ID: > <CABGJBueQSQ2q_9P5qaX=iX_nuA0+8YCXfWY1hUc=qGwJzGs2Yg@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I have a few original Dr dos disks. Versions 5, 6, 7. Would these help if > I am imaged and uploaded to my site? > > Bill Degnan > twitter: billdeg > vintagecomputer.net > On Nov 17, 2017 10:10 AM, "Liam Proven via cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > Might be more helpful to include downloads! > > > > I'm still working on VMs, but I know have bootable diskette images of > > both. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time either has > > been made available. > > > > DR-DOS 7.08 is here: > > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/cz8nrdv7h4sgr6o/drdep7018.zip?dl=0 > > > > You'll need the rest of DR-DOS 7.01 to install a complete OS but > > that's widely available. > > > > A bootable PC DOS 7.1 diskette image is here: > > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsujtvp0gs44qcx/PCDOS71.vfd?dl=0 > > > > This is a VirtualBox disk image, containing the PC-DOS 7.1 files from > > the IBM ServerGuide Scripting Toolkit, as made available by IBM and > > described here: > > > > http://toogam.com/software/archive/opsys/dos/ibmpcdos/getpcd71.htm > > > > If you get that first, AIUI that gives you a licence to a personal-use > > copy. I have not modified these files in any way except to combine the > > separately-downloadable files and the boot disk image, and to remove > > any non-PC DOS files from the disk image. > > > > Again, the rest of the OS must be taken from a copy of PC DOS 7.01. > > That too is widely available. > > > > Feedback welcomed. > > > > -- > > Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven > > UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:35:13 -0500 > From: Anders Nelson <anders.k.nel...@gmail.com> > To: CuriousMarc <curiousma...@gmail.com>, "General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards? > Message-ID: > <CAJ2mpAg1Vwn1+cKZ2znQqu7U97k1kwViyc3L+Bj+ > kntceja...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I mounted a core memory plane in a shadowbox from Target and used a large > paperclip cut into sections as the mount hardware. Folded over and > hot-glued one end to the read of the shadowbox backing, placed the memory > plane at the desired height and folded over the other end of the paperclip > section. I also put a piece of heatshrink tubing on the paperclip end that > contacted the memory plane soas not to scratch it. > > Pictures: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dzSX21lOC34MaJxm2 > > =] > > -- > Anders Nelson > > +1 (517) 775-6129 > > www.erogear.com > > On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 2:25 AM, CuriousMarc via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I use shadow boxes from Michael's to display my boards. They have many > > kinds > > http://www.michaels.com/-black-shadowbox-studio-decor/ > > M10322044.html?dwvar_M10322044_color=Black > > Marc > > > > > > > > On Nov 16, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Ethan via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > > This message has no content. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 07:44:16 -0800 (PST) > From: geneb <ge...@deltasoft.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: DR-DOS > Message-ID: <alpine.lfd.2.03.1711170743080.30...@deltasoft.com> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, william degnan via cctalk wrote: > > > I have a few original Dr dos disks. Versions 5, 6, 7. Would these help > if > > I am imaged and uploaded to my site? > > > > Liam, if you need me to I can build a full distro of OpenDOS 7 - I've got > a machine that I can build the original sources on. > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:52:08 +0100 > From: Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> > To: william degnan <billdeg...@gmail.com> > Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: DR-DOS > Message-ID: > <CAMTenCEnjvFRMv6899eBOZBVcmCSkYQA0K9gcF+Ae0BDLTNnMw@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On 17 November 2017 at 16:12, william degnan <billdeg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I have a few original Dr dos disks. Versions 5, 6, 7. Would these help > if > > I am imaged and uploaded to my site? > > What I'd suggest is checking what's there first. :-) > > I have DR-DOS 6, from VetusWare. There's a copy on WinWorld but it's > some homemade disks, lacking an installer, IIRC. > > I have physical media from the early 1990s somewhere! > > I have DR-DOS 7.01/02/03/04/05/8.0/8.1 mostly from WinWorld . > > I own an original open source release of 7.01, including sources, > direct from Caldera, on CD. This is from before they changed their > mind and back-pedalled. > > I have a full boxed copy of PC DOS 7. It was distributed with > Microsoft Virtual PC, which itself is a free download now. So the VM > is out there and freely available. > > My VM is built from the free download version, with ViewMax taken from > the download of DR DOS 6. > > I have a working VM of PC DOS 7.1 but I'm still working on that. I > don't currently have a bootable USB of it -- making new bootable > volumes is non-trivial. It's not as simple as SYS or FORMAT /S, alas. > Neither works. I don't think it was meant to, TBH. Ditto the later OEM > releases of DR DOS 7.04/05 -- these were only on Disk Manager and > PartitionMagic boot disks, AFAIK. The whole OS was not updated. > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:03:25 +0100 > From: Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> > To: geneb <ge...@deltasoft.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: DR-DOS > Message-ID: > <CAMTenCFo9R+EHj9PxF-9xgFikXZQ1MdAyVaT37diA7GEmzT9M > w...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On 17 November 2017 at 16:44, geneb via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > > Liam, if you need me to I can build a full distro of OpenDOS 7 - I've > got a > > machine that I can build the original sources on. > > Thanks! > > For now, I'm trying to avoid building anything. I believe that the > build process is horribly complex -- I can find the link to a > description of the horrors somewhere. Something like 9 different > compilers are apparently used. > > So I hope not to need that, but appreciate the offer! > > What I am planning to do is combine the released boot files for PC-DOS > 7.1 and DR-DOS 7.01-8, both with FAT32 and LBA support, with the rest > of the released OSes of both, to make something as complete as > possible. > > My plan is then to add on top of that a graphical shell -- DOSSHELL > for PC DOS, ViewMax for DR DOS. > > And then add some useful shareware/freeware utilities and apps, to > make a complete useful working environment, for example able to boot > off a USB stick for a distraction-free, non-Internet-capable, writing > tool. There seems to be considerable interest in such things these > days, and of course, the problem with apps that provide > distraction-free clean-screen writing/editing environments is that you > can always just switch apps to something else. > > I have DESQview and DESQview/X running in a VM, but not on bare metal. > QEMM seems to have problems on 21st century PC hardware, which is > perhaps unsurprising. > > On one of my own Lenovo notebooks, I have a bootable partition with PC > DOS 7.01, MS Word 6, WordPerfect 6.2, Norton Utilities and some other > tools. With power management, but not networking or anything. This > works for me, but they can't be distributed; they're licensed tools. > > MS Word 5.5 is a free download, though. I was planning to add tools > such as PC Write, PC Outline, As-Easy-As, WordPerfect Editor, a Norton > Commander clone -- stuff that _is_ distributable. > > I also need to add a current DOS antivirus, unfortunately. I think > there still are some. > > The theory is to produce something functionally rich that runs in a VM > -- because then I know the hardware environment and can configure > things for it. And something much less functionally-rich that can boot > and run off a USB stick on almost any hardware. > > DR-DOS should be re-distributable. PC DOS, I fear not, at least not > fully legitimately. But my download diskette image contains nothing > that IBM itself currently does not offer for free unrestricted > download. I'm hoping that the company will tolerate that, at least. > > -- > Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:20:06 -0800 (PST) > From: geneb <ge...@deltasoft.com> > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DR-DOS > Message-ID: <alpine.lfd.2.03.1711170817380.32...@deltasoft.com> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, Liam Proven wrote: > > > On 17 November 2017 at 16:44, geneb via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > >> > >> Liam, if you need me to I can build a full distro of OpenDOS 7 - I've > got a > >> machine that I can build the original sources on. > > > > Thanks! > > > > For now, I'm trying to avoid building anything. I believe that the > > build process is horribly complex -- I can find the link to a > > description of the horrors somewhere. Something like 9 different > > compilers are apparently used. > > > If you've got the same MRS disc that Roger sent me, you've got the whole > build environment already. You can kick it off with a single command. > The only caveat is that you need to boot into OpenDOS/DR-DOS in order to > get enough free lower RAM to run the build process. > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:04:07 -0800 > From: Eric Schlaepfer <sch...@gmail.com> > To: Eric Smith <space...@gmail.com> > Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive > Message-ID: > <CAJEzEZGKGL0Yh8LuLnAVEBQmXWbY_3MjwFN6hx42bEDGvQNc5Q@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Check your email. How can you tell if it uses a 600 RPM mechanism or not? > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Eric Smith <space...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Eric, > > > > It's not urgent, but when you have a chance, could you dump the 9122C > > ROM(s) and take high resolution photos of the controller board? > > > > Since it does HD, I suspect it probably does not use a 600 RPM mechanism. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Best regards, > > Eric > > > > > > On Nov 15, 2017 17:45, "Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk" < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> It'd be interesting to find out how well that PRM-85 works. I've laid > out > >> a > >> board for a rough equivalent but I haven't fabbed it out. It may be > >> cheaper > >> for me to buy that instead. > >> > >> I've also got a 9122C but I don't have the mass storage ROM so I can't > use > >> it with my 85. Right now I'm using it with my 9000 series 300. > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk < > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Nov 14, 2017, at 20:11, Ed Sharpe via cctalk < > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > wondervifcthec9122 drives,will work on 85? > >> > > > >> > > >> > I think I can guess what you meant to say there... :) > >> > > >> > I?ve ordered a PRM-85 (a modern reprogrammable ROM drawer replacement) > >> > which includes the HP-85B version of the Mass Storage ROM, and the > >> Extended > >> > Mass Storage ROM. Based on what I have read, I think that should let > my > >> A > >> > model use the newer 9122C drive, and other drives using either the > >> Amigo or > >> > SS-80 protocols. > >> > > >> > I?d like to get the 9122C mostly because I have a much easier time > >> finding > >> > 1.44M media than the older double density media. eBay and I don?t > talk, > >> so > >> > that limits my options a bit. If I had easy access to lots of 3.5? DD > >> > media, then I would consider getting one of the more plentiful (?) > other > >> > 3.5? HPIB floppy drives. > >> > > >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 17:24:00 +0000 > From: Peter Allan <petermal...@gmail.com> > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s > Message-ID: > <CAJCrz550ajCzQuMz-t+zMF34Dk3YwtvwPCGU0Om9swUg- > mk...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I was a student at Manchester University from 1974 to 1980. During that > time I used the University of Manchester Regional Computer Centre (UMRCC) > computer system. The so-called Joint System consisted of a CDC 7600 with an > ICL 1906A front end. We used to submit card decks via a Systime (a PDP-11 > clone, I believe) that functioned as a remote job entry service. > > I am trying to find out information about the structure of those card decks > (mine were used for shopping lists years ago), and in particular, what the > first card in the deck was that routed the job to the correct computer. > > I have found information about JOB cards for both ICL computers running > George 3 and for the CDC 7600 running SCOPE 2.1 (which is what the > computers ran), but I believe that neither of these gives the full story > about what we used on the Joint System. > > Does anyone who used this system, or similar ones in the UK, recall > anything relevant? > > If you have suggestions about where else to post this query, I would be > grateful for that too. > > Cheers > > Peter Allan > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 13:26:05 -0400 > From: Paul Berger <phb....@gmail.com> > To: Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive > Message-ID: <71be6676-c829-33e3-4e48-b3ca4eedc...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I just checked my 9122C I happen to have open and the interval between > index pulses is 199.66mS? which would be 300 RPM, which is good news for > me I can now proceed with adapting a more common 1.44 drive to replace > my broken one. > > Paul. > > > On 2017-11-17 1:04 PM, Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk wrote: > > Check your email. How can you tell if it uses a 600 RPM mechanism or not? > > > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Eric Smith <space...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi Eric, > >> > >> It's not urgent, but when you have a chance, could you dump the 9122C > >> ROM(s) and take high resolution photos of the controller board? > >> > >> Since it does HD, I suspect it probably does not use a 600 RPM > mechanism. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Eric > >> > >> > >> On Nov 15, 2017 17:45, "Eric Schlaepfer via cctalk" < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> It'd be interesting to find out how well that PRM-85 works. I've laid > out > >>> a > >>> board for a rough equivalent but I haven't fabbed it out. It may be > >>> cheaper > >>> for me to buy that instead. > >>> > >>> I've also got a 9122C but I don't have the mass storage ROM so I can't > use > >>> it with my 85. Right now I'm using it with my 9000 series 300. > >>> > >>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk < > >>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Nov 14, 2017, at 20:11, Ed Sharpe via cctalk < > >>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> wondervifcthec9122 drives,will work on 85? > >>>>> > >>>> I think I can guess what you meant to say there... :) > >>>> > >>>> I?ve ordered a PRM-85 (a modern reprogrammable ROM drawer replacement) > >>>> which includes the HP-85B version of the Mass Storage ROM, and the > >>> Extended > >>>> Mass Storage ROM. Based on what I have read, I think that should let > my > >>> A > >>>> model use the newer 9122C drive, and other drives using either the > >>> Amigo or > >>>> SS-80 protocols. > >>>> > >>>> I?d like to get the 9122C mostly because I have a much easier time > >>> finding > >>>> 1.44M media than the older double density media. eBay and I don?t > talk, > >>> so > >>>> that limits my options a bit. If I had easy access to lots of 3.5? DD > >>>> media, then I would consider getting one of the more plentiful (?) > other > >>>> 3.5? HPIB floppy drives. > >>>> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 18:31:07 +0100 (CET) > From: Christian Corti <c...@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk@classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Playing with HP2640B > Message-ID: <alpine.deb.2.20.1711171829260.29...@linuxserv.home> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On Fri, 17 Nov 2017, David Collins wrote: > > Christian do you know the gauge of the wire you used ? And the current? > > It was a wire for cutting polystyrene blocks. The current was a fews > amperes, I think, driven off a bench power supply. > > Christian > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:57:36 -0800 > From: Chuck Guzis <ccl...@sydex.com> > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Manchester University Joint System in the 1970s > Message-ID: <0ba9f9e5-3b8d-cbbb-5d91-e1a9b9f10...@sydex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > On 11/17/2017 09:24 AM, Peter Allan via cctalk wrote: > > I was a student at Manchester University from 1974 to 1980. During that > > time I used the University of Manchester Regional Computer Centre (UMRCC) > > computer system. The so-called Joint System consisted of a CDC 7600 with > an > > ICL 1906A front end. We used to submit card decks via a Systime (a PDP-11 > > clone, I believe) that functioned as a remote job entry service. > > > > I am trying to find out information about the structure of those card > decks > > (mine were used for shopping lists years ago), and in particular, what > the > > first card in the deck was that routed the job to the correct computer. > > I can't help you with your specific case, other than to mention that > Purdue University for a time used a 6500 front-ended by a couple of IBM > 7094s (IIRC, and it's been a long time--could have been 7090s), that > might give you a clue. The VIM community wasn't large. > > >From my own experience with 6000s, the SCOPE 1BJ overlay was heavily > modified by various sites. I imagine that the corresponding code in > the SCOPE 2.x JS code was similarly tweaked. > > --Chuck > > > > End of cctalk Digest, Vol 38, Issue 16 > ************************************** >
