Craig White scribbled on Thursday, October 16, 2008 4:24 PM:
If you are going to go to multiple lists, might I suggest that you have
1 system-admins list and 1 general-users list and you can tightly
control the system-admins list.
I think you're on to something here. I assume you mean the
Niki Kovacs wrote:
Given the popularity of this thread, I suggest creating a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] list, where folks can discuss
list-related stuff.
Popular huh? Let as see some stats on the
posts by user
* Karanbir Singh (15)
* Spike Turner (10)
* Spiro Harvey (8)
* Kenneth Price (5)
* Frank
Spike Turner wrote:
Ralph Angenendt wrote:
Out of curiosity which major linux distro operates
a fragmented mailing list such as the one proposed?
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo
http://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html
https://lists.ubuntu.com/
On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:28 AM, Spike Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Who would like the mailing list to be as fragmented
as the CentOS forum? Fragmentation means erosion of
the userbase and is not good for the community.
Spike.
Once again you are referring to the CentOS forum. Are you
Akemi Yagi wrote:
Spike Turner wrote:
Who would like the mailing list to be as fragmented
as the CentOS forum? Fragmentation means erosion of
the userbase and is not good for the community.
Spike.
Once again you are referring to the CentOS forum. Are you
saying that
the forums
Spike Turner wrote on Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:28:17 -0700 (PDT):
Popular huh?
You didn't get the subtile irony?
Kai
--
Kai Schätzl, Berlin, Germany
Get your web at Conactive Internet Services: http://www.conactive.com
___
CentOS mailing list
Spike Turner wrote on Fri, 17 Oct 2008 05:19:36 -0700 (PDT):
- some may not view the centos forum as fragmented
but is the participation at the same level as the
unfragmented mailing list?
Couldn't it be that some people simply prefer email over HTML forums?
Especially those that have less
On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 5:19 AM, Spike Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Akemi Yagi wrote:
Spike Turner wrote:
Who would like the mailing list to be as fragmented
as the CentOS forum? Fragmentation means erosion of
the userbase and is not good for the community.
Spike.
Once again
Akemi Yagi wrote:
I can go on with my response to your personal view, but doing so would
be way off-topic here in this thread. Therefore, I started an open
discussion session in the right place for this topic - not
surprisingly - in the CentOS forum:
How can a forum possibly be the right
Karanbir Singh scribbled on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:55 PM:
And to better cater to these conversations, as well as further encourage
such content, we'd like to propose creating a 'centos-tech' list.
Also, all comments are welcome!
Sounds like a plan.
How would a newbie know what
Michael Semcheski scribbled on Thursday, October 16, 2008 2:17 AM:
This may sound crazy, but maybe the thing to do is let the main list
continue the way it is, but update the guidelines for this list to
explicitly allow the things that Karanbir mentioned in the OP. Then,
and this is the
Kenneth Price wrote:
I favor one-stop shopping.
I agree with Jeff. While I understand this general list can become a bit overwhelming for the CentOS Staff, we all must remember that this is a GENERAL list.
I think the general CentOS list should be an open and embracing
community. A
Frank Cox a écrit :
I tend to agree with you, actually. The Fedora list, for example, seems to
work fine as far as I can see (most of the time, anyway), and I just skip over
anything that doesn't look interesting to me.
I second that. Coming from Slackware, I tend to adhere to the KISS (Keep
Jeff wrote:
There are probably as many (or more) threads that drift off topic as
there are those that start out that way and are labeled as such. I
don't think a new list is really going to help create the separation
you seek. In fact, introducing a second list will probably generate
many
Chris Geldenhuis wrote:
I agree with Jeff, in other forums where that I belong to the
distinction between tech and chat quickly becomes blurred and many
posts are cross posted to both (or all) lists, causing duplication in
downloads and scanning.
how about when the distinction is between
Karanbir Singh wrote:
Morten Torstensen wrote:
I think the general CentOS list should be an open and embracing
community. A centos-tech list sounds more like the name of the
developer or power user list than a semi-off-topic technology
discussion group. That was my first thought when seeing
Karanbir Singh wrote:
Over a period of time, we would like to see the CentOS list
become a
more user help and distro specific list, with generic
conversations
moving to the centos-tech list.
perhaps that is why core issues in CentOS like the kernel
and samba are ignored by the
Karanbir Singh wrote:
One thing that we are often blamed for is trying to stifle conversations
and to discourage people from commenting / contributing / encouraging
conversations. And that cant be further from the truth, really. We are
all pro-community ( and when I say we, I mean everyone -
On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 22:54 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Karanbir Singh wrote:
And to better cater to these conversations, as well as further encourage
such content, we'd like to propose creating a 'centos-tech' list.
Also, all comments are welcome!
If there is a general feeling that
Karanbir Singh wrote:
Morten Torstensen wrote:
I think the general CentOS list should be an open and embracing
community. A centos-tech list sounds more like the name of the
developer or power user list than a semi-off-topic technology
discussion group. That was my first thought when seeing
Kai Schaetzl wrote:
I'm all for having less traffic on this list, but I don't have a good
recipe for that. I doubt that splitting the list will really help much. As
others have already said you will probably end up with two lists that have
mixed conversations from the topics of both lists. And
Spike Turner wrote:
perhaps that is why core issues in CentOS like the kernel
and samba are ignored by the developers? Examples :-
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066143.html
We are not going to rebase except if upstream does. And maybe nobody
answered that because
On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 10:08 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Kenneth Price wrote:
I agree with Jeff. While I understand this general list can become a bit
overwhelming for the CentOS Staff, we all must remember that this is a
GENERAL list. All questions, from the novice to the expert should
Kenneth Price wrote:
I agree with Jeff. While I understand this general list can become a bit
overwhelming for the CentOS Staff, we all must remember that this is a GENERAL
list. All questions, from the novice to the expert should be welcome. This
list is not only a way to get problems
Morten Torstensen wrote:
I think the general CentOS list should be an open and embracing
community. A centos-tech list sounds more like the name of the
developer or power user list than a semi-off-topic technology
discussion group. That was my first thought when seeing the new name.
What
Karanbir Singh wrote:
Chris Geldenhuis wrote:
I agree with Jeff, in other forums where that I belong to the
distinction between tech and chat quickly becomes blurred and
many posts are cross posted to both (or all) lists, causing
duplication in downloads and scanning.
how about when the
I'm all for having less traffic on this list, but I don't have a good
recipe for that. I doubt that splitting the list will really help much. As
others have already said you will probably end up with two lists that have
mixed conversations from the topics of both lists. And it won't help with
Craig White wrote:
If you are going to go to multiple lists, might I suggest that you have
1 system-admins list and 1 general-users list and you can tightly
control the system-admins list.
Craig
Craig. I like these definitive names!
But I would like a bit more freedom on the sysadmin
- Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kenneth Price wrote:
I agree with Jeff. While I understand this general list can become
a bit overwhelming for the CentOS Staff, we all must remember that
this is a GENERAL list. All questions, from the novice to the expert
should be welcome.
- Craig White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you are going to go to multiple lists, might I suggest that you
have 1 system-admins list and 1 general-users list and you can tightly
control the system-admins list.
I disagreed with the idea of creating a second list as originally proposed,
- John Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Craig White wrote:
If you are going to go to multiple lists, might I suggest that you
have 1 system-admins list and 1 general-users list and you can tightly
But I would like a bit more freedom on the sysadmin list. The ability
to get more in
John Hinton wrote on Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:09:26 -0400:
Perhaps a new list name that might be considered would be
CentOS-Extended or CentOS-Servers. A place where Apache conf can be
discussed, as I'm sure the desktop users don't want to hear about
this... or running a DNS server... and the
On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 11:18 -0500, Kenneth Price wrote:
- John Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Craig White wrote:
If you are going to go to multiple lists, might I suggest that you
have 1 system-admins list and 1 general-users list and you can tightly
But I would like a bit
Kai Schaetzl wrote:
I agree with all you said and I think that a distinction
along the lines
of how one uses CentOS might indeed help, say
centos-server-users and
centos-desktop-users or a list that is just about hardware
and making it
work with CentOS.
Out of curiosity which major
On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 10:02 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
[snip]
Karanbir,
Have you looked at Usenet? It's user post/OT list history? Should give
you good information on splitting a list into one or more parts and the
results of doing so.
Bob
--
Bob Taylor
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 11:18:42AM -0500, Kenneth Price wrote:
- John Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But I would like a bit more freedom on the sysadmin list. The ability
to get more in depth on particulars and include discussions of other
software which interacts with existing
Spike Turner wrote:
perhaps that is why core issues in CentOS like the kernel
and samba are ignored by the developers? Examples :-
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066143.html
Thats a bit of a dribveby waste of space post that does not really merit
a reply from anyone.
Les Mikesell wrote:
Centos-applications might make sense if the idea is to cover how to do
things using programs that run on Centos - or when/how to replace the
packaged apps with newer versions. But you might want hardware advice too.
yes, also the idea of best practices is something that
Christopher Chan wrote:
- technologies
- best practices
- deployment strategies and tools
- management strategies and tools
I don't know whether that will take off...has not it been tried outside
centos.org by centos list members already?
Not that I am aware of. But its worth a try here in
Kenneth Price wrote:
and that includes you, ya big teddy bear.
I am not *that* fat!
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Bob Taylor wrote:
Have you looked at Usenet? It's user post/OT list history? Should give
you good information on splitting a list into one or more parts and the
results of doing so.
Last time I checked, there was more than 1 newsgroup.
- KB
___
Marcelo M. Garcia wrote:
I understand the eagerness to lower the noise ratio,
I've read and re-read my original email, and not one place can I find
something that would lead so many people to believe that the whole aim
of the new list was to reduce the noise ratio alone.
Maybe I just didnt
Karanbir Singh wrote:
Thats a bit of a dribveby waste of space post that does not
really merit
a reply from anyone. Also if that was something that
concerns you so
much, what have you done about it ?
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066154.html
Johnny has been
Spike Turner wrote:
A driveby waste of space post was one by a certain Karanbir
telling someone to recklessly upgrade Gnome when this is supposed
to be an enterprise distro.
Last time I checked, it was still a free world ? unless you live in the
US, in which case, all bets are off. And yes, I
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Marcelo M. Garcia wrote:
I understand the eagerness to lower the noise ratio,
I've read and re-read my original email, and not one place can I find
something that would lead so many people to believe that the whole aim
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ross Walker wrote:
Given the overall poor reception of the idea, I'd just put it on the back
burner for now...
yes, thats sounding like a good idea for the time being.
- KB
Thank you - for listening, participating,
Stephen Harris wrote:
To be honest, I don't think this list should be split. Instead it
should be more rigorously policed.
I have to disagree strongly with that, since policing generally wastes
everyone's time with more noise that it manages to control and there
will (and should) always
MHR wrote:
Thank you - for listening, participating, discussing and making the
right choice.
At the moment, its more a case of a 'failure to communicate' in my
opinion. Lets see how it pans out. There are still some really good
ideas in this thread, most worth looking at.
- KB
On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 10:08 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
this list isnt really a general list as you put it, its more of a
user-help and support list for people who use and are considering to use
CentOS.
This is my understanding of the purpose of this list.
This list is now also at a
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Spike Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think I've seen Dag Wieers and Johhny Hughes posting questions
on the Nahant-list, why not on this list or the Centos forum?
Such a fragmentation as that proposed is one guaranteed to
turn the CentOS mailing list along
On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 18:12 +0100, Karanbir Singh wrote:
Bob Taylor wrote:
Have you looked at Usenet? It's user post/OT list history? Should give
you good information on splitting a list into one or more parts and the
results of doing so.
Last time I checked, there was more than 1
Ross Walker wrote:
Given the overall poor reception of the idea, I'd just put it on the back
burner for now...
yes, thats sounding like a good idea for the time being.
- KB
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
Spike Turner wrote:
Out of curiosity which major linux distro operates
a fragmented mailing list such as the one proposed?
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo
http://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html
https://lists.ubuntu.com/
https://ml.mandriva.net/wws/lists
Compared to those CentOS
Karanbir Singh wrote:
And to better cater to these conversations, as well as further encourage
such content, we'd like to propose creating a 'centos-tech' list.
Over a period of time, we would like to see the CentOS list become a
more user help and distro specific list, with generic
I was interested in seeing what the actual vote results may be, so
here's what I've calculated:
New list as proposed - 5
Keep as is - 11
Either way - 2
Keep + update charter - 2
New list + new name/charter - 6
Not declared - 3
A few folks posted remarks, but I could not detect a vote -
hey tony...
care to discern the future results of the US pres election!!!
thanks for the laugh...
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Toby Bluhm
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:32 AM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] new list
I also note that moderation comes in 2 forms...the first being when
one of the CentOS developers says stop this thread which is irregular,
and you'll also notice that this never works. the thread typically
degenerates into the yay-sayers and the nay-sayers, which actually
produces *more* noise.
Karanbir Singh wrote:
MHR wrote:
Thank you - for listening, participating, discussing and making the
right choice.
At the moment, its more a case of a 'failure to communicate' in my
opinion. Lets see how it pans out. There are still some really good
ideas in this thread, most worth looking
A driveby waste of space post was one by a certain Karanbir
telling someone to recklessly upgrade Gnome when this is supposed
to be an enterprise distro.
well, if they're running Gnome, then they're probably not using the
machine in an enterprise capacity. nobody in their right mind would
Given the overall poor reception of the idea, I'd just put it on
the back burner for now...
yes, thats sounding like a good idea for the time being.
I don't think it is a good idea. I think that we need two separate
lists. One for general users, one for server sysadmins.
What we don't know
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:44:00 -0400
John Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The bulk of the posts seem to regard something
that is more desktop related. Please understand this is not a negative
as this is one fantastic service to those working with CentOS. All good,
The reason for this is
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:48:31 +1300
Spiro Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
well, if they're running Gnome, then they're probably not using the
machine in an enterprise capacity. nobody in their right mind would
install X on a server.
*blink* I run a couple of Centos 5 application servers with
On Fri, Oct 17, 2008, Spiro Harvey wrote:
Given the overall poor reception of the idea, I'd just put it on
the back burner for now...
yes, thats sounding like a good idea for the time being.
I don't think it is a good idea. I think that we need two separate
lists. One for general users, one
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 4:44 PM, John Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Karanbir Singh wrote:
MHR wrote:
Thank you - for listening, participating, discussing and making the
right choice.
At the moment, its more a case of a 'failure to communicate' in my
opinion. Lets see how it pans out.
Spiro Harvey wrote:
well, if they're running Gnome, then they're
probably not using the
machine in an enterprise capacity. nobody in
their right mind would
install X on a server.
Really? What about SLED (Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop) or
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Desktop? Read something
Karanbir Singh:
Morten Torstensen wrote:
I think the general CentOS list should be an open and embracing
community. A centos-tech list sounds more like the name of the
developer or power user list than a semi-off-topic technology
discussion group. That was my first thought when seeing the new
Really? What about SLED (Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop) or
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Desktop?
Marketing terms for IT managers and non-technical decision makers.
--
Spiro Harvey Knossos Networks Ltd
021-295-1923www.knossos.net.nz
signature.asc
Ralph Angenendt wrote:
Out of curiosity which major linux distro operates
a fragmented mailing list such as the one proposed?
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo
http://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html
https://lists.ubuntu.com/
https://ml.mandriva.net/wws/lists
Compared to
To be honest, I don't think this list should be split. Instead it
should be more rigorously policed. This should be a list about CentOS,
and working with CentOS.
Hi
Rigorous policing in this context is counter productive. Specifically in
three areas
1. The person or group enforcing
Karanbir Singh wrote:
Christopher Chan wrote:
- technologies
- best practices
- deployment strategies and tools
- management strategies and tools
I don't know whether that will take off...has not it been tried
outside centos.org by centos list members already?
Not that I am aware of. But
I'd have to suggest that the 'default' list (eg this one) should be the
most general and beginner oriented, and any new additional lists should
be the ones with the narrower focus (centos-tech, for instance, or
centos-sysadmin).
in my experience with running multiple lists, unless there's a
John R Pierce wrote:
I'd have to suggest that the 'default' list (eg this one) should be the
most general and beginner oriented, and any new additional lists should
be the ones with the narrower focus (centos-tech, for instance, or
centos-sysadmin).
Narrower focus? Why? Why should there not
Karanbir Singh wrote:
And to better cater to these conversations, as well as further encourage
such content, we'd like to propose creating a 'centos-tech' list.
Also, all comments are welcome!
If there is a general feeling that this would help, then we will go
ahead and setup the new list in
Karanbir Singh wrote:
However, one thing that does get in the way, often, and something that
we all feel creates a higher 'noise' ratio is conversations on this
list about semi-related stuff, but not something that directly
contributes to the general users of CentOS. Conversations that
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:52:44 +0100
Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And to better cater to these conversations, as well as further encourage
such content, we'd like to propose creating a 'centos-tech' list.
Sounds like a whale of a plan.
--
MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008, Frank Cox wrote:
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:52:44 +0100
Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And to better cater to these conversations, as well as further encourage
such content, we'd like to propose creating a 'centos-tech' list.
Sounds like a whale of a plan.
On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:25:24 -0700
Bill Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Personally I prefer the more general lists rather than splitting
off into a bunch of more specific ones. I often learn things by
reading messages that I would see on more targeted lists. The
more general lists also
Karanbir Singh wrote:
One thing that we are often blamed for is trying to stifle conversations
and to discourage people from commenting / contributing / encouraging
conversations. And that cant be further from the truth, really. We are
all pro-community ( and when I say we, I mean everyone -
Karanbir Singh wrote:
One thing that we are often blamed for is trying to stifle conversations
and to discourage people from commenting / contributing / encouraging
conversations. And that cant be further from the truth, really. We are
all pro-community ( and when I say we, I mean everyone -
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Frank Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I suspect that most of the discussion and question ask-and-answer stuff
currently dealt with here will migrate to the new list within a short period
of
time, simply because it will be more free-wheeling and easy to post to.
'centos-tech' list.
If there is a general feeling that this would help, then we will go
ahead and setup the new list in the next few days.
I think this would be a good idea.
you have my vote.
--
Spiro Harvey Knossos Networks Ltd
021-295-1923
- Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
And to better cater to these conversations, as well as further
encourage
such content, we'd like to propose creating a 'centos-tech' list.
There are probably as many (or more)
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 5:41 PM, Kenneth Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I favor one-stop shopping.
I agree with Jeff.
Count me in, there, too. This may sound odd after my last posting,
but I prefer the idea of a single list, I just think we should
Hi,
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 20:41, Kenneth Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I favor one-stop shopping.
I believe creating another list is a mistake. [...]
a second list will only encourage cross-posting.
I second that.
As I see it, although this talk of
that appears to do what
i'm looking for.. so it must not have been too vague...
peace..
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Filipe Brandenburger
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:00 PM
To: CentOS mailing list
Subject: Re: [CentOS] new list proposal
Hi
Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I favor one-stop shopping.
My $0.02
I favour quality over quantity, and I have $2 to spend. :)
Forums are one-stop shops, and even they have different sub-forums that
categorise conversations.
--
Spiro Harvey Knossos Networks Ltd
021-295-1923
Bruce,
For starters, please start following the basic rules of the list, such
as bottom posting and trimming your replies.
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 21:03, bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
my question was vague... but the funny thing.. someone from this
list pointed my in the direction of a
I don't think a new list will work any better than this list. As far as
an OT post I will give an example, if somewhat contrived:
I'm looking for a, possible freeware, app that I know *what it does* but
do not have a clue what various and sundry names it hides behind. I've
tried a number of times
Jeff wrote:
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And to better cater to these conversations, as well as further encourage
such content, we'd like to propose creating a 'centos-tech' list.
There are probably as many (or more) threads that drift off
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