Is the cwnd also oscillating wildly or is it just an artefact of the visible
part of the queue only being a fraction of the real queue?
Are ACK packets being aggregated by wireless? That would be a good explanation
for large bursts that flood the buffer, if the rwnd opens a lot suddenly. This
w
On 18 Aug, 2012, at 12:38 pm, Török Edwin wrote:
> Shouldn't wireless N be able to do 200 - 300 Mbps though? If I enable
> debugging in iwl4965 I see that it
> starts TX aggregation, so not sure whats wrong (router or laptop?). With
> encryption off I can get at most 160 Mbps.
That's only the
It may be worth noting that fq-codel is not stochastic in it's fairness
mechanism. SFQ suffers from the birthday effect because it hashes packets
into buffers, which is what makes it stochastic.
- Jonathan Morton
On Nov 28, 2012 6:02 PM, "Paul E. McKenney"
wrote:
> Dave ga
On 9 Dec, 2012, at 6:14 pm, Maciej Soltysiak wrote:
> What are the heaviest (amount of elements, css, images, scripts, js bugs, ad
> trackers, all that filth) websites out there?
Amazon, RS Components, ICanHazCheezburger, AOL (shudder) - those spring to mind
immediately.
- Jonathan
s not enough to run even a relatively
simple algorithm like codel.
Dedicated logic that *is* fast enough to run the algorithm on each packet
shouldn't be any bigger than such a CPU.
- Jonathan Morton
On Dec 20, 2012 10:17 AM, "Hal Murray" wrote:
>
> If I was going to do some
On 1 May, 2013, at 11:26 pm, Simon Barber wrote:
> Interesting to note that sfq-codel's reaction to a non conforming flow is of
> course to start dropping more aggressively to make it conform, leading to the
> high loss rates for whatever is hashed together with a VoIP flow that does
> not red
tion, the necessary information should be available at that point. I am
reminded of the way Azureus adjusts global bandwidth limits - both incoming and
outgoing - to match reality, based on both periodic and continuous measurements.
- Jonathan Morton
_
: protocol ip prio 10 u32 match ip tos 0x08 0xfc
flowid a:b
I notice, near the end, that one has fc and the other has 0xfc.
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eue containing the VoIP flow is the fullest queue, not the emptiest. That's
independent of the number of flow queues, including the infinite case. Think
about it carefully.
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ket.)
Naturally, each TBF can and should support a child qdisc such as fq_codel.
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Pi's built-in Ethernet is attached via USB. It's a chip
that also includes a USB hub, which is why the cheaper model which drops
Ethernet also loses a USB port.
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bandwidth greater than 926kbps.
National broadband availability initiatives can then be based on that
figure.
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ve loads of performance,
and enough I/O to feed those GigE ports effectively.
The only real software concern should be that it's big-endian, but since I
already use an old PowerBook as a firewall, that's unlikely to be a big
hurdle. Fq_codel works well on it.
the NIC, rather than as part of a full kernel.
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ning the same.
If PIE were enabled, it'd look a whole lot better than that, I'm sure.
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ld be a potential life-extender for the 3800.
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and it would probably make
the lead-time shorter and engineering risk smaller.
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On 30 Aug, 2014, at 4:03 pm, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote:
> Jonathan Morton writes:
>
>> Looking at the code, HTB is considerably more complex than TBF in
>> Linux, and not all of the added complexity is due to being classful
>> (though a lot of it is). It seems that T
ould leave out the FPU, or
configure only the most basic type of FPU (VFPv3-D16), to save money compared
to the NEON unit you'd normally find in a smartphone.
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On 30 Aug, 2014, at 8:33 pm, Jonathan Morton wrote:
> I'll need to investigate more closely to see whether there's a CPU load
> difference between HTB and TBF in practice.
Replying to myself, but...
The surprising result is that TBF seems to consume about TWICE the CPU ti
what would be sent over the Internet.
These tests were all run using nttpc. I wanted to finally try out RRUL, but
the wrappers fail to install via pip on my Gentoo boxes. I'll need to
investigate further before I can make pretty graphs like everyone el
On 1 Sep, 2014, at 8:01 pm, Dave Taht wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Jonathan Morton
> wrote:
>>
>> On 31 Aug, 2014, at 1:30 am, Dave Taht wrote:
>>
>>> Could I get you to also try HFSC?
>>
>> Once I got a kernel running that inclu
indicate that they increased the I-cache to 64KB
for performance reasons, but saw no need to increase the D-cache at the same
time.
Which brings me back to the timers, and other items of black magic.
Incidentally, transfer speed benchmarks involving wireless will certainly be
limited by the wireless link. I assume that's not a factor here.
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* 50Mbps
> * 100Mbps
Smaller increments at the high end of the range may prove to be useful. I
would expect the CPU usage to climb nonlinearly (busy-waiting) if there's a
bottleneck in a peripheral device, such as the PCI bus. The way the kernel
classifies that usage may also be r
isunderstood, and most end-user applications ignore it. Supporting the basic
eight precedences, and maybe some userspace effort to introduce marking, should
be enough.
I like the name, though. :-)
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On 2 Sep, 2014, at 6:37 pm, Dave Taht wrote:
> The ath10k has a cpu and firmware. The ath9k does not.
So what's this then? http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/ar9170.fw
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Cerow
the means to generate a more current one) is at:
>
> https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/codel/wiki/Best_practices_for_benchmarking_Codel_and_FQ_Codel
Ah, so GEM doesn't have BQL.
...now it does. :-D
sungem-bql.patch.gz
Description: GNU Zip c
ems to be no measurable difference - the
machine just isn't capable of filling the buffer fast enough. I have yet to
try it at slower link rates.
sungem-bql.patch.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
- Jonathan Morton
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th and packet
size.
> > I like the name, though. :-)
>
> It is partially a reference to a scene in the 2010 sequel to 2001.
I need to re-watch that.
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eful. The rest would be interesting to look at.
Are you able to test with smaller packet sizes? That might help to isolate
packet-throughput (ie. connection tracking) versus byte-throughput problems.
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ly excrable
efforts, similar to LowEndMac's "Road Apple" award. All protected by copyright
and trademark laws, which are rather easier to enforce in a legally binding
manner than advertising regulations.
Incidentally, for those amused (or frustrated) by embedded hardware design
dec
the UK have that setup. They are
unusual among ADSL ISPs in supporting IPv6 properly - among other things.
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is the protocol to fake in Javascript?
Or would a netperf-wrapper demonstration suffice? We've already got that, but
we'd need to extract the single-figures-of-merit from the data.
I wonder if the speedof.me API can already be tricked into doing the right
thing?
-
On 12 Sep, 2014, at 4:49 am, Joel Wirāmu Pauling wrote:
> So if ookla implemented a udp based test, changed it's statical weighting and
> data mining methods overnight. At least in NZ that might help.
Isn't that the whole point of this discussion?
-
ly.
Estonia is even quite close to where I am, just the opposite side of the
Gulf of Finland, so I'm almost tempted to go and take a look. On the other
hand, it's probably just as educational to watch the video at home
afterwards, and doing so avoids schedulin
rouble.
The flow-discrimination mode and the diffserv mode can also be changed in the
same way, but this is more disruptive; it may at least result in some packets
arriving out of order within flows, if not also some spurious drops. But the
network can tolerate that happening o
> On 12 Dec, 2014, at 19:44, Dave Taht wrote:
>
> While fiddling with the idea a bit, I found that you can add a
> bandwidth limit to cake on the fly, but once added you cant remove it
> with the syntax at hand.
Yes you can:
# tc qdisc change dev ifb0 handle 2: cake unlimit
> On 13 Dec, 2014, at 05:57, Dave Taht wrote:
>
> I guess all that is needed is a marie antoinette mode, then, huh?
For that, we would need to have something called “bread” for cake to be an
alternative to. But then again, what was the French for bread again? ;-)
- Jonath
ly we're going to have to get industry on board.
Not just passively letting us play around as with ath9k, but actively
taking note of our findings and implementing at least a few of our ideas
themselves. Of course, tools, models and real-world results are likely to
make t
Count a vote in general for static pages for web hosting where possible.
Running a server side script (in any language, but especially PHP) and
making database calls for every hit is a performance and security nightmare.
Also, spammers can't spam a comment system that doesn't exist.
for two different sites might spread the costs
in an interesting way...
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nly ones with even halfway acceptable latency are the
ones with least throughput in either direction.
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ter than predicted, so they were soon
able to find a factory in Wales that fitted the budget.
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at their connection was behaving badly in the
ways we now find interesting. Whether Microsoft will do such a thing (which
would undoubtedly piss off every major ISP on the planet) is another matter,
but it’s a concept that can be used by Linux desktops as well, and with less
political fallout.
Now
enough degree, but
we really need something different for wifi - although several of cake’s
components and ideas could be used in such a qdisc.
Roll on cake3.
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https
bottleneck queue. The “atm” flag is there to take
account of ATM framing, which ADSL uses. You can experiment with the precise
rates without disrupting existing traffic flows:
# tc -s qdisc
(the above is to look up the correct handle figures to use below)
# tc qdisc change dev handle N
should be straightforward to look that up for any given
model.
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ally for best effort
> and background.
Let’s see how well it works this way. It should be fairly easy to adjust this
aspect of behaviour later on.
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Right, so until 3.1 modems actually become available, it's probably best to
stick with a modem that already supports your subscribed speed, and manage
the bloat separately with shaping and AQM.
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fects download as well
at a multiple of the upload effect bandwidth, even if download is not
shaped. The multiple depends on how the receiving host spaces acks.
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much less experimentation would we be able to do? The
general hackability of your average CPE router is a benefit to our research
efforts, even if the default configuration they come with is still utterly
terrible.
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ced delay exceeds the inherent RTT.
With ECN, of course, you don’t even have that caveat.
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hat it actually works. Otherwise, you’ll
start losing customers to the first competitor who does.
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nd the Responsiveness goes up above
100Hz, approaching 1000Hz.
Crucially, that’s a positive sort of term, as well as trending towards bigger
numbers with actual improvements in performance, and is thus more potentially
marketable.
- Jonathan Morton
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advantage to fake ECN
3: if you have flow isolation with drop-from-longest-queue-on-overflow, faking
ECN doesn’t matter to other traffic - it just turns the faker’s allocation of
queue into a dumb, non-AQM one. No problem.
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> On 21 Mar, 2015, at 02:38, David Lang wrote:
>
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, Jonathan Morton wrote:
>
>>> On 21 Mar, 2015, at 02:25, David Lang wrote:
>>>
>>> As I said, there are two possibilities
>>>
>>> 1. if you mark packets sooner t
> On 23 Mar, 2015, at 02:24, Dave Taht wrote:
>
> I don't know how to have it match all traffic, including ipv6
> traffic(anyone??), but that was encouraging.
I use "protocol all u32 match u32 0 0”.
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tual crypto library’s RNG.
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ower than an actual queue. And there’s a
reasonable hope that involving Codel will give better results than either a
brick-wall or a token bucket.
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HTB+fq_codel combination. It will have a
few other novel features, too.
Bobbie is a response to the ingress-shaping problem. A policer (with no queue)
can be run without involving an IFB device, which we believe has a large
overhead.
- Jon
ffic between wired and wireless - and sharing the incoming WAN bandwidth
between them, too - is. It’s a valid test, though, for this particular purpose.
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but netem should make a reasonable substitute if
configured sanely.
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or a lack of
AQM at the ISP), so that’s the one which matters. Can you try a unidirectional
test which exercises only the download direction? This should get the clearest
signal - without CPU-load interference from the upload direction.
- Jon
eaving the pipe open.
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t here.
I wish thermal testing had been done on my 3G dongle. It frequently overheats
and shuts itself down at 25°C ambient. It’s approaching the point where I want
to move my firewall out onto the (usually cooler) balcony.
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ar we’ve come that we now consider 7ms to be painful.
:-)
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nd the scenes, but make that an extra click.
If you want to also put in an advanced mode for people who do know what they’re
doing, you can, but hide it behind an “advanced, here be dragons” button and
make it easy to go back to the sane defaul
instead of ingress shaping, we’d
not only be getting IFB and ingress Diffserv mangling out of the way, but HTB
as well.
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op
rate seems like it would work better than the “brick wall” imposed by a plain
token bucket.
Your results suggest that investigating this possibility might still be
worthwhile. Whether anything will come of it, I don’t know.
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e real bottleneck
> rare…,
That’s 12% as a lower bound - and that’s already enough to be noticeable in
practice. Obviously we can’t be sure of getting all of it back, but we might
get enough to bring *you* up to line rate.
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plement
> features like ping under load etc.
I gave that test a quick try. It measured my download speed well enough, but
the upload…
Let’s just say it effectively measured the speed to my local webcache, not to
the server itself.
- Jonathan Morton
__
e are more than 8 distinct flows attempting to occupy
queues in the same set. In such a case, the search for an empty queue is
terminated and the packet is placed in the queue matching the plain hash.
NB: so far this code path is completely untested to my knowledge!
- Jonathan Morton
hey are
two separate benefits; "tighter" means "bursts less".
Also, what graphs?
As for installing kernel headers, on Debian based distros the right package
should be linux-headers-`uname -r` .
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?
I think this might be the basic reason for increased latency.
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cket in the slow direction,
while at our default 300 quantum the DRR will cycle five times per data
packet. So acks for a given flow will only be delivered bunched if they
arrived bunched.
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> On 14 May, 2015, at 16:09, Alan Jenkins
> wrote:
>
> On 14/05/15 11:53, Jonathan Morton wrote:
>>> On 14 May, 2015, at 13:50, Alan Jenkins
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> generic-receive-offload: on
>> This implies that adding GRO peeling to c
Ah - looking at it from that perspective, your largest packet includes a
1500 byte payload, 40 bytes of PPPoE framing, and 44 more bytes of AAL5
padding, all wrapped up in 33 ATM cells. With even slightly less overhead
or a fractionally reduced payload, you'd go down to 32 cells.
- Jon
A 64k aggregate would be broken up at any speed below half a gigabit. So
the 1ms heuristic seems sane from that perspective.
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u’d get is the RTT of that particular TCP flow. This is likely to
be longer than the RTT of a competing sparse flow, if the bottleneck queue uses
any kind of competent flow isolation.
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more useful in practice.
For some reason, I haven’t actually subscribed to IETF AQM yet. Perhaps I
should catch up.
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of the number of flows
it uses, and it also makes sense to configure FQ for ideal flow isolation
rather than for mitigation.
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ch just does the re-marking before handing the packet up the stack.
I’m not sure whether it’s possible to attach two ingress actions to the same
interface, though. If not, the re-marking action module would also need to
incorporate act_mirred functio
> On 19 May, 2015, at 03:56, Jeremy Iliev wrote:
>
> Might be worth a look into as a potential candidate for the make-wifi-fast
> router.
Apparently, the wifi chipsets are "MT7612E and MT7602E”. Is the driver support
for them any good?
> On the 3800, it never meets the rate, but it's only off by maybe 5%.
That's about right for Ethernet, IPv4 and TCP header overheads with 1500
MTU. The measured throughput is application level, while HTB controls at
the Ethernet level.
- Jo
Remind me: does HTB have a divide in the fast path? ARMv6 and ARMv7-A CPUs
don't have a hardware integer divide, so that can really hurt.
This is fixed I think in ARMv8 and definitely in AArch64, but divides are
still expensive instructions on any CPU.
- Jonathan M
d help to evaluate it, but I do think it’s
theoretically sound.
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sort of decay?
> I.e. a function of how long ago the drop state was exited?
Such things are theoretically possible, but require further thought to
determine how best to do them.
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ing will not occur by at least 3x (and generally more). Since this
greatly reduces the risk of packet loss, it might actually reduce the average
time that the sender needs to maintain the connection’s buffers, despite the
deliberate 1-RTT delay introduced.
- Jon
I can probably glean more information from "tc -s qdisc".
However, my hypothesis is still that the version of cake you have is old,
while the version of tc that you have is newer.
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ed by
userspace, unless nla_parse_nested returns an error if the provided option
struct would be overflowed. Clearly it doesn't, but just truncates it to
fit.
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Not so easy to find those in Finland, it seems, but I assume Amazon carry
them.
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Hypothesis: this might have to do with the receive path. Some devices might
have more capacity than others to buffer inbound packets until the CPU can
get around to servicing them.
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These would be hardware tail drops - there might not be a physical counter
recording them. But you could instrument three driver to see whether the
receive buffer is full when serviced.
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To be honest, HTB + cake isn't really the preferred configuration.
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I'd also like to be able to try it out on CPE hardware. However, what I've
got is a Buffalo H300N, so I'll need build instructions (preferably
starting from an existing stock build) as well as setup.
The Buffalo isn't as powerful as some others, being based around a 34K core
should be disabled full stop for this hardware, so
we can stop fannying about with peeling.
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o with "overhead" or "atm".
What's probably happening is that you're using a slightly old version of
the cake kernel module which lacks the overhead parameter entirely, but a
more up to date tc which does support it. We've seen thi
Qdiscs should be used on any link that might become a bottleneck. In most
consumer cases, that will indeed be your WAN interface.
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here?
Simply put, if the shaper isn’t set to a lower bandwidth than the link rate, it
won’t control the queue.
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ts of routing preferences (although the latter
was also poorly specified, it was at least clear what it meant).
Frankly I think IETF dropped the ball there. "Rough consensus and working
code." I find it difficult to believe that they had working code
implementing a complete
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