Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Maureen
Chaos, corruption, greed, an unnecessary war in Afghanistan, and oil price manipulation by the Saudis brought down the Soviet government. There was no open rebellion to be put down by the government. Unlike the Chinese a la Tiananmen Square. How much consent you gonna give when facing down a ta

Re: Due process under duress: Detaining citizens under NDAA

2012-08-24 Thread Maureen
I think most of the liberals are aware that Eric Holder is a huge problem. They just feel he is less of a problem that Romney and whomever he appoints to that position. Most of them have memories of John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales. Maybe if Romney announced his choice and it was someone who w

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Robert Munn
Total firepower superiority in the hands of the federal government didn't save the USSR. It's all about the consent of the governed, folks ... On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Eric Roberts < ow...@threeravensconsulting.com> wrote: > > Yeah...when the government has stealth aircraft, drones, and

Re: Due process under duress: Detaining citizens under NDAA

2012-08-24 Thread Judah McAuley
If we are including the AG in the DOJ, and I assume we are, I'd say that the current AG was involved in shutting down the Eastern Europe and other secret detention facilities, the push to apply the Army manual on interrogation techniques across larger portions of the government, they have left a l

Re: Due process under duress: Detaining citizens under NDAA

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
How was the Bush DOJ worse? I mean they both basically follow the same policies, with this administration going much harder at whistle blowers, and doing things like going after cannabis dispensaries, which he promised during the campaign he wouldn't be doing. I'm not saying O is worse, I'm sayi

Re: Due process under duress: Detaining citizens under NDAA

2012-08-24 Thread Judah McAuley
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "The actions of the Obama DOJ are simply unacceptable." > > When talking to my liberal friends, they are all critical of the DOJ. > Interestingly enough, most of them are going to vote for Obama. They > can't see that the current DOJ and

Re: Due process under duress: Detaining citizens under NDAA

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
It's so sad that I look back with nostalgia to the Clinton years and the mess that was Janet Reno. Shit at least they were out in the open about gun grabbing and killing Americans. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:42 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "The actions of the Obama DOJ are simply unacceptable."

Re: Due process under duress: Detaining citizens under NDAA

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Barnes
"The actions of the Obama DOJ are simply unacceptable." When talking to my liberal friends, they are all critical of the DOJ. Interestingly enough, most of them are going to vote for Obama. They can't see that the current DOJ and President are joined at the hip. J - It is incumbent on every

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
I despise the man. I did read his site for a while years ago until the bohemian grove/illuminati/aliens shit. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "So really take off the tinfoil hat, get back on your meds and try facing > reality for a while." > > Are you off your meds?

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Most people would shit there pants, I've seen senior NCOs with a decade or more in uniform freak out and hide. One of my best friends in 3rd Group SF told me about an SF MSG (E-8, 15 years plus, multiple deployments, decorated) Lost it and stayed in the truck ducked down in the wells when they g

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Barnes
"Given that police officers have to maintain minimum standards in marksmanship, ..." The police in Oakland are doing an outstanding job with their standards. Shooting unarmed men in the back seems to be a specialty, not to mention loosing the dogs on women and children. J - No government eve

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Judah McAuley
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:29 PM, LRS Scout wrote: > > I'm not expecting the common man to meet that standard. Basic safety and > marksmanship training, and a couple of good courses of instruction on > escalation of violence and the laws around the use of deadly force and > that's all you really

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Agreed. When you look at the military it's pretty funny. You mainly see multi generation enlistees. Dad's dad's dad's dad and everyone else since served. That's something like 1-2% of the population in uniform at any given time. 1% of the population taking the risks, making the sacrifices. It

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Barnes
"So really take off the tinfoil hat, get back on your meds and try facing reality for a while." Are you off your meds? Alex Jones is a nut job in the line of a Bill Maher. I wouldn't put any credence in anything he says. Trying to associate anything I say with him is beneath low. J - Ninety

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
I could agree to that, but prefer the original 14-45 with a deteriorating drill schedule as you get older. Maybe even make it like 15-30. Start with a boy scouts (without the discrimination and religion) type group teaching field craft and marksmanship, advance through some kind of BCT and go to

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Barnes
"Yeah they have been raising the taxes on ammo like crazy. I also think that the ammo purchases were done on purpose, not to kill Americans per se, but to tie up manufacturing and supply, thus making the prices go even higher." At least some people can still connect dots and make logical conclu

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Yes I've done all kinds of reflexive fire drills and live fires and movements and stuff in the military, both in training and in real life. I wasn't in the shit like WW2 style, but I fired my weapon more than once. However, I started shooting at around 8 with a .22 shortly followed by a .410. I

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Barnes
"In reality, the ammunition was ordered by the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement, but a clerical error in the paperwork indicated otherwise." What did the paperwork say? Did it say NWS or not? If it was a mistake, I am accountable for it? I'd like to say unbelievable, but it's pretty da

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Ok. See I'm not going to divide murders by number anymore than I would by motivation (hate crimes are stupid, murder is murder, motivation doesn't make a crime worse). In the end I feel it all boils down to this: Liberty and freedom and personal responsibility are not safe things. They are not

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
I provided the names of 2 sources that were in the administration during or right after 9/11. The Sibel Edmonds stuff is not made up, it's documented and members of the government have asked for investigations and been shut down at every turn. I for one would like to know why. She has been calle

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
We aren't talking stopping a crime...we are talking what would happen with most people if they were in a mass shooting situation. Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-8531 http://w

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
I actually think that mandatory military service would solve a lot of issues. We take too much for granted. Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-8531 http://www.threeravensconsulti

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
Like what Norway has... 2 year of mandatory military service and you keep your firearm. Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-8531 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com -

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
You got way more than a couple of hours shooting and a couple of hours training on how to react in the army Tim...a couple of hours doesn't drill it into your head so that it becomes instinctual so you don't have to think about it when you are in a situation where stopping and thinking means you a

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Yeah, cause the Afghans haven't done more with less right? The big things you would need, Anti-Aircraft and Anti-Armor weapons would bcaptured, and brought over by deserting troops. I went to 2C school, was a javelin gunner, do you have any idea what I can do with that weapons system? Even rota

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
exactly Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-8531 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com -Original Message- From: Judah McAuley [mailto:j

RE: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
You also realize that every mass shooting was committed with legal weapons...not illegal ones? The folks that do this mass shootings are not normally criminal types, so they don't have access to the criminal networks and knowledge of where to get illegal weapons, who to trust...who will trust the

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Sam
Sorry but you didn't really present a case for rebuttal, just some canned conspiracy theories. . On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 8:00 PM, LRS Scout wrote: > > Excellent rebuttal. > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Sam wrote: > >> >> And we lose another one to the conspiracies ... >> >> . >> >> On Fr

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
If they were not amateurs, they would have taken out way more... Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-8531 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
Yeah...when the government has stealth aircraft, drones, and missiles...you little handgun...or even assault rifle, isn't going amount to much. Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
Yeah...go read you article about the Virginia school shooting and see how the other people reacted...all the source you need. Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-8531 http://www.th

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
Yes...a security guard...someone who is trained. The school shooting...an ex-marine and ex cop. The fact is if other had firearms, there would have been more deaths. These folks were trained to use them and trained to use them in combat situations. The others were not mass killing situations.

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Sam
Isn't your definition of right-wing Conservative, Christian, anti-science and limited government? McVeigh was more in line with you when it comes to science and religion. He did not want to limit government because of cronyism or waste but because of Reno's an idiot that killed lots of innocent pe

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Also, there have been about 20+ FF situations in Afghanistan since the invasion, less in Iraq during our invasion and occupation. There are literally thousands of guns used in self defense or the defense of others every year (again check the FBI stats). I've stopped an attempted rape of a neighb

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Judah McAuley
Btw, I wouldn't have nearly the problem if we had a rigorous and continuous education system for firearms ownership and use. Something akin to a marshal arts training academy where you not only learn how to fight but when to fight, how to engage and (most importantly) how and when to walk away. I

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
The CCW class I took in NC required range time and a legal/ROE brief. Is it as good as what we had in the Army? You get a couple hours shooting, and a couple hours of classroom instruction, but yes all of those subjects are covered. I know I am unique in some ways. My friends and I have shelle

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Sam
Plus an armed citizen is not likely to attempt to arrest a suspicious person on a crowded street. Now a gunman in a theater shooting innocents is a different story. . On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 2:33 PM, LRS Scout wrote: > > Most cops shoot once a year to qualify. Most civilians that choose to > c

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Judah McAuley
There are very few friendly fire situations in the military, agreed. Probably many more accidental deaths of civilians but that tends to get seriously hushed up. However, even if we are just talking friendly fire, there are still more incidents in Afghanistan than you point to as situations where

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Excellent rebuttal. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Sam wrote: > > And we lose another one to the conspiracies ... > > . > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:44 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > > > That's the question though isn't it? > > > > Is it expected? Is this what they want? I'm not saying caused

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
So you're saying all the historical events I mentioned didn't happen? You have in no way addressed my points. Northwoods? Was Hugh Shelton a liar? Sibel Edmonds? Her's is the testimony that interests me the most. The IG has said repeatedly that her claims had merit and needed to be investiga

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
I was born in NY, lived their most of my life other than when my Dad was contracting. The first rifle and pistol I ever purchased were when I was on Long Island. yes. You can purchase firearms. Rifles are no big deal no waiting limit. Pistols are something entirely different. You have to get

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Barnes
"Given that police officers have to maintain minimum standards in marksmanship, if there had been more concealed carry in NYC, do you honestly think that more people would not have been shot by panicked amateurs in this circumstance?" There's not enough information to make a pro or con judgement

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Casey Dougall - Uber Website Solutions
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > The National Weather Service is purchasing 46,000 rounds of hollow point > ammo. > It was a bit of a mistake and should have been NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement. But read between the lines and there is no way they would require h

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Sam
Remember that civilian army Obama wanted? Maybe he's found another way. . On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > > The NWS? ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusio

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Maureen
Not quite. The right to bear arms is to protect the citizens from government. A simple read of British history in the years immediately preceding the enactment of the Bill of Rights will show why. But as you say, with the current level of lethal technology possessed by the government, simply ha

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
BTW here's a good article about the entire issue: http://www.businessinsider.com/this-is-why-the-noaa-supposedly-ordered-46000-rounds-of-ammunition-2012-8 As Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." On Fri, Aug 24, 2

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
But where you gonna get bullets? Shit, Afghans make AK receivers with blacksmith tools over open flames. You always could make your own. Never saw a zip gun? On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Casey Dougall - Uber Website Solutions < ca...@uberwebsitesolutions.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 24, 201

RE: The Newsroom - Spoilers.

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
Yeah, no kidding Tim...I wish this was real and not just a show. I think it is a great show. Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-310-8531 http://www.threeravensconsulting.com

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Sam
And we lose another one to the conspiracies ... . On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:44 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > That's the question though isn't it? > > Is it expected? Is this what they want? I'm not saying caused it > directly, but look, shrinks and sociologists can predict individual and > group

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Smoke and mirrors man. The funny thing is that even if you do like at what a lot of the bonehead groups want aside from the racial homeland bullshit, the majority of them favor heavy central governments with large scale social programs and government control of manufacturing and redistribution of

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Erika L. Rich
Well come on now. How many times have you wanted to kill the weatherman when he said the sun would shine all day and when you sat down at your picnic by the lake the sky opened up?! They are targets, and need to defend themselves /me runs On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Jerry Barnes wro

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Yeah they have been raising the taxes on ammo like crazy. I also think that the ammo purchases were done on purpose, not to kill Americans per se, but to tie up manufacturing and supply, thus making the prices go even higher. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Jerry Barnes wrote: > > "First rea

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
This soon after the shooting you have a reputable source that can state that as a fact? I haven't seen that yet. Source? On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Jerry Milo Johnson wrote: > > Unfortunately facts are going to get in your way on this one. > > The gunman shot once, and killed one person.

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Also his statement there is MAY. The forensics people will have to pull belluets before they can tell who fired where. As far as I'm concerned any officer that fired into a civilian should be dropped from the force and subject to civil penalties form their victims. Negligence in the line of duty

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Most cops shoot once a year to qualify. Most civilians that choose to carry concealed do so not only for personal protection, but also because they enjoy firearms, and they shoot. Cops average about 15% accuracy of rounds fired in anger (FBI Stat), I haven't seen the equivilent studies on the mi

Re: FOIA request for the White House Honey Ale recipe

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
There's also a petition going around urging the same. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Judah McAuley wrote: > > Homebrewers have created a petition and filed an FOIA request seeking > access to the White House's home brew recipe. > > http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/homebrewers-petitio

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
that's a bit too paranoid. Even the Bush administration would not go that far. There are too many consequences right now. And keeping something like that secret isn't easy any more. Mind you, I can see many on the right wing extreme or those who cater to them on hate radio possibly would try some

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
I disagree and say there is evidence showing otherwise. See my coming response to Eric. Also, there are VERY few FF and AD situations in the military. It is a Courts Marshall offense. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Judah McAuley wrote: > > You think that the average person with a concealed

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
NOt really, New York itself, but the surrounding and nearby states have much more lenient firearms control laws. So its not all that difficult for someone to drive 4 hours to Virginia, buy several handguns (remember that the 1 handgun a month law has been repealed), and then sell them for quite th

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Maureen
Yeah, but who decides? The FBI, other agencies or even organizations like SPLC, can put any label on a group. That simply means the group has been labeled, it doesn't mean they actually are what the label describes. , On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > You know what? Any

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Really? http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/8-horrible-crimes-stopped-by-legal-gun-owners/ Please see 1, 5 and 6. That's just the first thing I found. I know it happened recently in Tx as well. So yeah, you're absolutely wrong on that one my friend. Besides what are you worried about. You live i

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Vivec
Oh. Shit. I didn't know that's what happened. :-\ On 24 August 2012 13:34, Jerry Milo Johnson wrote: > > Unfortunately facts are going to get in your way on this one. > > The gunman shot once, and killed one person. > > The two trained, armed police officers who responded are the ones that > sh

Re: FOIA request for the White House Honey Ale recipe

2012-08-24 Thread Dana
I love it. I think the White House should respond asap. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Judah McAuley wrote: > > Homebrewers have created a petition and filed an FOIA request seeking > access to the White House's home brew recipe. > > > http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/homebrewers-pet

Re: Pandering at its best

2012-08-24 Thread Sam
Killing cancer patients, being a felon or putting folks back in chains is a tad better me thinks. . On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/08/romney-makes-birth-certificate-joke/1 > ~~

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
Nice little lie Jerry but tell the truth about the NWS instead of cherry picking the story that fits the cause you are trying to advance. In reality, the ammunition was ordered by the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement, but a clerical error in the paperwork indicated otherwise. http://www.

Due process under duress: Detaining citizens under NDAA

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/201282392637358491.html?miaou384 The actions of the Obama DOJ are simply unacceptable. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Antholo

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Casey Dougall - Uber Website Solutions
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:35 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > I disagree, a couple of concealed carry individuals and this could have > ended much sooner. > Well, soon enough we'll all be able to 3D print our own gun. 'Wiki Weapon Project' Aims To Create A Gun Anyone Can 3D-Print At Home http://www.for

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Barnes
"First reaction is to get all the guns off the streets. " Since that would be a violation of the 2nd amendment, no. In this specific case, gun control wouldn't have meant anything. If what I read is true, the man wanted to kill his former boss. A knife, pipe bomb, or bare hands would have work

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Barnes
"Ok, how many have Stalinists and Maoists killed?" I don't know about here in the states, but around the world, they have done one hell of a job in killing: Mao himself was responsible for tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of deaths in the Great Leap Forward ("Forward" - where have

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Milo Johnson
Unfortunately facts are going to get in your way on this one. The gunman shot once, and killed one person. The two trained, armed police officers who responded are the ones that shot him, and shot the other 9 injured people. I cannot see that adding more "untrained" guns to that mix would have

Pandering at its best

2012-08-24 Thread Scott Stroz
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/08/romney-makes-birth-certificate-joke/1 -- Scott Stroz --- You can make things happen, you can watch things happen or you can wonder what the f*&k happened. - Cpt. Phil Harris http://xkcd.com/386/ ~~~

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Barnes
"You know what? Any group that can be considered 'extremist' is dangerous. I don't care which way they lean." Who gets to do the labeling? J - Ninety percent of politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. - Henry Kissinger Politicians are people who, when they see light at the e

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
According to the mayor of New York, from the Washington Post "Bloomberg said some of the nine people who were hit outside the Empire State Building may have been shot accidentally by police. " Given that police officers have to maintain minimum standards in marksmanship, if there had been more co

FOIA request for the White House Honey Ale recipe

2012-08-24 Thread Judah McAuley
Homebrewers have created a petition and filed an FOIA request seeking access to the White House's home brew recipe. http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/homebrewers-petition-obama-to-release-white-house-honey-ale-recipe.35206/ That's some government transparency advocacy I can get behind.

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
You are assuming that they would know how to react in this situation and know how to react appropriately. A former/current cop or military might, but the average civilian, probably not. They just don't have the traiing. Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts O

RE: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Eric Roberts
There has never been a single instance of a mass shooting stopped by an armed civilian...contrary to all the gun owner's Clint Eastwood fantasies.. Three Ravens Consulting Eric Roberts Owner/Developer ow...@threeravensconsulting.com tel: 630-486-5255 fax: 630-

The Newsroom - Spoilers.

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Has anyone else been watching this? It's not great but it is pretty damned good. The last episode especially. The were trying to pitch a new debate idea to the RNC. It was awesome. Imagine if we challenged our candidates, had fact checkers at the debate and actually called them out on their b

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
The abortion thing? I doubt it. I mean the eastern and western coastal states would write new abortion law quickly, the mid west would ban it and a bunch of people would move or travel to get them. That's how states here are supposed to work Larry. I'm more worried about the ongoing organized

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Judah McAuley
You think that the average person with a concealed permit has the ability to quickly, in an emergency situation, identify the legitimate threat, not confuse that target with any of the other concealed permit holders who are now trying to aim their weapons and take down the correct shooter in a pan

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
That's the question though isn't it? Is it expected? Is this what they want? I'm not saying caused it directly, but look, shrinks and sociologists can predict individual and group behavior too a scary level these days. Bear with me here, and Larry I know you can rant at me about it, but just c

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
I disagree, a couple of concealed carry individuals and this could have ended much sooner. NYC is already one of the worst places in the U.S. for gun owners. Their laws are as bad as Illinois and even worse than California. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > Probably a

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
I think things would really be screwed up if it happened. The current civil war would be going from cold to very hot. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:33 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > For not shooting you or for not arguing about abortion here :) > > Shit man, I could never hurt you, we have way too much f

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
easy availability of firearms, high stress, lots of propaganda from all sides, its almost expected. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:32 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/08/3-or-4-wounded-in-shooting-near-empire-state-building/1#.UDeP2aOQlGl > > Jesu

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
For not shooting you or for not arguing about abortion here :) Shit man, I could never hurt you, we have way too much fun together haha. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > I guess I ought to thank you for that. > > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM, LRS Scout wrote: >

Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
Probably a lot more. Think of it, if 5 or 6 people were armed they'd be shooting rather wildly or at each other. And this would be happening while people are running and trying to get away. It would be a slaughterhouse. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Vivec wrote: > > http://www.huffingtonpost

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/08/3-or-4-wounded-in-shooting-near-empire-state-building/1#.UDeP2aOQlGl Jesus, I know Bloomberg is gonna flip over this. Not gonna be good for gun owners in NY, not that NY has ever been good to gun owners. I just wonder, why is this

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
I guess I ought to thank you for that. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > “If they choose not to do their duty and uphold the Constitution,” Szabo > said, “they can be brought up on charges before what’s called a citizen’s > grand jury, which is something that’s not that comm

Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress or something?

2012-08-24 Thread Vivec
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/empire-state-building-sho_n_1827534.html?1345815551&ncid=edlinkusaolp0009 Is this the third one in a month? First reaction is to get all the guns off the streets. Another is would things have been different if more people were armed? Would less people

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
That's some scary and reasonably well documented stuff. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Casey Dougall - Uber Website Solutions < ca...@uberwebsitesolutions.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Larry C. Lyons >wrote: > > > I was basing that on the recent DHS report that suggested th

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
Saw that one yesterday, what si wrong with people. Seriously, you guys have to see this isn't just a left/right republican/democrat thing. In the last week I have read talk of violence from both major sides, from people talking about the conventions, too the elections and all kinds of things. I'

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Casey Dougall - Uber Website Solutions
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > I was basing that on the recent DHS report that suggested that right > wing groups were a significant threat. And the reight wing in congress > tried to suppress it. Given what's happened recently the report may be > quite accurate. > > htt

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Jerry Milo Johnson
Another great example of a crazy man in office as a judge. Coincidentally, a Texan and Republican. http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/23/us/texas-judge-warning/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:38 AM, LRS Scout wrote: > > “If they choose not to do their duty and uphold the Constitution,”

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
“If they choose not to do their duty and uphold the Constitution,” Szabo said, “they can be brought up on charges before what’s called a citizen’s grand jury, which is something that’s not that common in the United States. But again, it is something based in common law that’s within the purview of

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread LRS Scout
"he believed sheriffs were granted special powers under the Constitution" WTF was he reading? Fucking people. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > > Before I forget, here's another bit of loonacy. > > > http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/frank_szabo_deadly_fo

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
Before I forget, here's another bit of loonacy. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/frank_szabo_deadly_force_abortions.php On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Larry C. Lyons wrote: > I was basing that on the recent DHS report that suggested that right > wing groups were a significant

Re: My stuff on remote drives

2012-08-24 Thread Cameron Childress
This post made me think of Amazon's newly announced service, Glacier: http://aws.amazon.com/glacier/ -Cameron On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Scott Raley wrote: > Have you checked into JungleDisk? We have some lawfirms that use this > as their backup. It only requires their small interface t

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread GMoney
The threat levels of different groups probably ebb and flow based on the current climate. I know that racist organizations saw a bump in numbers when Obama was elected, for instance. Left wing groups probably saw more influence during the Bush years. People tend to push back against whatever the

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
I was basing that on the recent DHS report that suggested that right wing groups were a significant threat. And the reight wing in congress tried to suppress it. Given what's happened recently the report may be quite accurate. http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 1

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Larry C. Lyons
Exactly. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Scott Stroz wrote: > > You know what? Any group that can be considered 'extremist' is > dangerous. I don't care which way they lean. > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Maureen wrote: >> >> According to the FBI, they consider environmental extremists

Re: where do they get these loonies

2012-08-24 Thread Scott Stroz
You know what? Any group that can be considered 'extremist' is dangerous. I don't care which way they lean. On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Maureen wrote: > > According to the FBI, they consider environmental extremists more dangerous > than domestic hate groups. I have the cite for that some

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