> >>I respect the ability to learn and use Assembler too.
> I don't think its a question of respect.
> There cannot be a good programer if he hasn't learn
> some assembly some time in his life. Only machine
> language will teach you how a machine works, and
> this is an essential basis in order t
Model Glue Questions
LOL I hear you...maybe this thread can be resolved with all partied at
CFUNITED? ;-)
-Original Message-
From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 10 April 2006 16:22
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
Holy cow! Now I know why I don&#
LOL I hear you...maybe this thread can be resolved with all partied at
CFUNITED? ;-)
-Original Message-
From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 10 April 2006 16:22
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
Holy cow! Now I know why I don't read CF-Talk o
Holy cow! Now I know why I don't read CF-Talk on the weekends. ;)
This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential
and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any d
I'm both as well. I started as a designer who wanted more control over my
websites.
-Original Message-
From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 3:52 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
Generally web developers are not designers and
11:20 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
I'm preparing an article for http://afpwebworks.com about OO
techniques written for people like I was - who dont 'get it' yet and
find the language used by
>>I respect the ability to learn and use Assembler too.
I don't think its a question of respect.
There cannot be a good programer if he hasn't learn some assembly some
time in his life.
Only machine language will teach you how a machine works, and this is an
essential basis
in order to understa
> From what I've seen you've been pretty cordial.
> I assumed in my oblivion I could have missed some
> posts, thus the "I'm staying out of it", but it
> was the "name calling" that set off my "flame"
> ding-a-ling. No need for that here. (I guess,
> I'm new, so, I don't know the lay of the
> land.
> I like Assembly. I respect people who have taken
> the time to learn it.
I respect the ability to learn and use Assembler too... I'm glad the
market for assembler is well satisfied, since I'm not particularly
interested in working with it. :) For that matter I know some C++ and
am not particular
>From what I've seen you've been pretty cordial. I assumed in my oblivion I
could have missed some posts, thus the "I'm staying out of it", but it was
the "name calling" that set off my "flame" ding-a-ling. No need for that
here. (I guess, I'm new, so, I don't know the lay of the land. Could be pa
I like Assembly. I respect people who have taken the time
to learn it.
Isn't it sort o like:
CF > Java > C > ASM > 110011 ? (sorta?)
Maybe now it's more of a CF > Java > machine lang?
I've heard tell of java compiling that did better optimization than
the a human... but it's funny that you would
> again your taking it out of context.
> when I say I don't care, I simply mean that I am not gonna
> have cow and lay
> awake at night getting stressed and thinking of new
> abusive comments I can
> post to everyone who didn't agree with me, which appears
> to be your problem.
> I am hapy to hear
> Well Isaac as I keep saying, everyone is entitled to an
> opinion. And mine is
> that your the one who will be left fishing for scraps,
> because I can't see
> many companies giving a job to someone like you who is so
> arrogant and
> living with his head up his own ass and thinks everyone is
> b
Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:15:00 -0400
> Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
>> >> Then everyone else can have the scraps that are
>> >> left over after developers who've taken the time
>> >> to stretch themselves have taken all the best jobs.
>> >&g
> used. Programs that allow you write programs in other
> languages are more
> often than not written in machine language in the first
> place.
> -Original Message-
> From: S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: CF-Talk
> Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 21:13:28 -0400
>
Please keep flame wars and personal debates off of CF-Talk. This is nothing
personal against you, Snake, but when Michael reads this, I'm sure he'll be of
the same opinion.
Judith Dinowitz
~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.c
Mike Kear wrote:
> Thanks Rick, I appreciate your nice comments.
>
> I started with CSS a couple of years ago, and while the learning curve
> for that was pretty steep too, it was a liberating experience too.
> Separating code from look and feel made everything simpler.The
> code is smaller,
u really.
Russ
-Original Message-
From: S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: CF-Talk
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:50:31 -0400
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
>
> Sure, there are lots of people who are doing well in that niche today,
> and there will be tomorro
gt;
To: CF-Talk
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 22:49:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
> Frankly, I'd say that not using a decent framework is like continuing
> to rely on your mother to buy tightie-whities, when the rest of the
> development world has blown past you into bo
>
To: CF-Talk
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 21:13:28 -0400
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
> > Matt, the first language I ever learnt was
> > Machine Language/Assembler, so be careful
> > with your assumptions.
>
> Oh, so you should already be familiar with the vanishing
what other people use and why they use it, I just don't
want it rammed down my throat.
-Original Message-
From: S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: CF-Talk
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:50:31 -0400
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
> > At the end of the day, i
l sorry for you really.
Russ
-Original Message-
From: S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: CF-Talk
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:50:31 -0400
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
> > I know very few CF developers who know JAVA, that mostly
> > stems form people who were p
Are you the most arrgant person in bizzaroworld, or is everyone like you ?
-Original Message-
From: S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: CF-Talk
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:15:00 -0400
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
> >> Then everyone else can have the
Frankly, I'd say that not using a decent framework is like continuing
to rely on your mother to buy tightie-whities, when the rest of the
development world has blown past you into boxers (or boxer briefs).
That's not to say there aren't good developers who are an exception to
the rule and go comma
Thanks for the feedback, Mike.
(And it's still Netscape 1.5 :o)
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 10:05 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
Thanks Rick, I appreciate your nice comments.
I started
Thanks Rick, I appreciate your nice comments.
I started with CSS a couple of years ago, and while the learning curve
for that was pretty steep too, it was a liberating experience too.
Separating code from look and feel made everything simpler.The
code is smaller, more straightforward. Downlo
memory!
Boy, I am living under a rock...
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 9:28 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
No, you can stay with CF4.5.2. you and all the other people
developing with WIndows3.1
> >>Frameworks are just like underware
> Sorry, I think it is spelled "underwear" ;-)
Yep, underware would be ... I guess software under software... so... a
framework. :P Or possibly a platform.
s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201
new epoch : isn't it time for a change?
add features without
> >>I think there are definately practical advantages to a
> >>framework,
> though it often depends entirely on the framework you
> choose.
> Frameworks are just like underware: it is important to
> wear some, but the most important is to wear your own...
So, no underwear swapping for Claude. :
ge-
From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 8:18 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
> Does that mean I have to upgrade from CF 4.5.2? ;o)
Eventually. :)
~|
> Great post man, and it really touches on something that
> I don't think enough people really concentrate on.
Thanks, Tim. I'm really not looking for accolades, but I appreciate
complements. :) In all honesty I think if I'd thought more about it
before I posted my first response in this thread th
>>Frameworks are just like underware
Sorry, I think it is spelled "underwear" ;-)
--
___
REUSE CODE! Use custom tags;
See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm
(Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Thanks.
~~~
No, you can stay with CF4.5.2. you and all the other people
developing with WIndows3.1 and Macintosh 512K machines.
Have you tried printing with a laser printer yet? They're pretty
cool. Where do you get your line printer ribbons from these days?
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Cer
>>I think there are definately practical advantages to a framework,
though it often depends entirely on the framework you choose.
Frameworks are just like underware: it is important to wear some,
but the most important is to wear your own...
--
___
REUSE CODE
> -Original Message-
> From: Claude Schneegans
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 08 April 2006 23:01
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
> >>Model-glue and similar frameworks is great if you want
> >>to obfuscate
> your cod
> Matt, the first language I ever learnt was
> Machine Language/Assembler, so be careful
> with your assumptions.
Oh, so you should already be familiar with the vanishing niche
problem. :)
s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201
new epoch : isn't it time for a change?
add features without fixtures wi
> I agree with Russ. I think Isaac was being a bit
> too general about it. Heck, I must be the only web
> developer that doesn't know .JavaNet, but I'm not
> always scrounging for scraps.
Probably being a bit more caustic about it than I could have been. :)
I also apparently didn't do a good job
> I know very few CF developers who know JAVA, that mostly
> stems form people who were programmers before learning
> CF or have a programming background, so I think your
> putting yourself down there if you think you're the only
> one who doesn't do it, in fact the majority of the people
> on this
> Does that mean I have to upgrade from CF 4.5.2? ;o)
Eventually. :)
For that matter, CF 5 isn't even avialable for sale anymore. If
nothing else, the fact that it becomes continually more difficult to
find support for the older versions is a liability, particularly since
new versions of operatin
>> Then everyone else can have the scraps that are
>> left over after developers who've taken the time
>> to stretch themselves have taken all the best jobs.
>> It's really that simple.
> I know plenty of people who do not comply to the *Isaac
> Dealey* way of thinking, and they all have very good
to shove your opinion down peoples
throats and bolster your ego, then your better off joining a user group or
fan club where everyone likes the same thing as you.
--
russ
-Original Message-
From: Dawson, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 09 April 2006 00:05
To: CF-Talk
Subject:
+1
-Original Message-
From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 5:55 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
The best answer so far Claude :-)
-Original Message-
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 April 2006
e-off mom-n-pop web sites are great for some
extra spending cash.
;^)
M!ke
-Original Message-
From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:04 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
I know plenty of people who do not comply to the *Isaac Dealey*
The best answer so far Claude :-)
-Original Message-
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 April 2006 23:01
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
>>Model-glue and similar frameworks is great if you want to obfuscate your
code and keep your
>>Model-glue and similar frameworks is great if you want to obfuscate your
code and keep your client bound to you for any ongoing work
Frameworks are for programing what religion is for life:
If you're not able to have a moral life without fearing hell or God,
then better take a religion.
Some
: Newbie Model Glue Questions
>Then everyone else can have the scraps that are left over after developers
who've taken the time to stretch themselves have taken all the best jobs.
It's >really that simple.
Matt, the first language I ever learnt was Machine Language/Assembler, so be
careful with your assumptions.
Russ
-Original Message-
From: Matt Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 April 2006 15:24
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
Be careful Joe, you may be
:47
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
On 4/7/06, Snake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Model-glue and similar frameworks is great if you want to obfuscate
> your code and keep your client bound to you for any ongoing work, as
> only developers who already understand
Does that mean I have to upgrade from CF 4.5.2? ;o)
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Loathe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 3:12 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
Great post man, and it really touches on something that I don't think e
eb based applications". Learn about frameworks. Learn
whatever you can.
--
Timothy Heald
Analyst, Architect, Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: 202-228-8372
C: 703-300-3911
-Original Message-
From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 1:17 PM
To: CF-
: Newbie Model Glue Questions
> ...everyone else can have the scraps that are left over after
> developers who've taken the time to stretch themselves have taken all
> the best jobs.
> It's really t
Joe Rinehart wrote:
> Model-Glue, Mach-II, and MVC Fusebox are such tools.
> So, are frameworks like MG/M2/FB necessary for a simple
> web app? No, of course not.
> Frameworks like MG/M2/FB are simply tools good
> developers - those members of the development
> community who do work that's m
> ...everyone else can have the scraps that are
> left over after developers who've taken the time to
> stretch themselves have taken all the best jobs.
> It's really that simple.
*applause*
~|
Message: http://www.houseoffusion.c
Mike Kear wrote:
> Want to have a look at one of these sites?
> (Only one has been launched so far) - see
> http://afpwebworks.com Another is
> http://bluegrass.org.au.They are fairly
> straightforward but fully dynamic and I spend
> my time nowdays being FAR more productive
> than i have EV
> It still all boils down to one simple thing for me.
> Tame something very simple, a web page And make it
> ridiculously complicated by turning it into an
> object oriented application.
I don't work on or with web pages. I haven't worked on or with web
pages in many years. I work on and with app
you use...
Thanks for the comments...
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 12:20 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
My 0.02c on this is that separating business logic from style and
display has revolutionise
My 0.02c on this is that separating business logic from style and
display has revolutionised my life. Since January I have been
building five sites simultaneously. They have similar but not
identical needs. I have taken the parts of the sites that are the
same on all, and used an OO approach
Be careful Joe, you may be speaking over Russ' head. Acronyms like 'API' are
foriegn to the 'open a page in DreamWeaver/HomeSite and edit it' type of
people.
I think the main point is that Joe and Russ agree on the idea that
frameworks are overkill for a simple web site. However, I would make the
On 4/7/06, Snake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Model-glue and similar frameworks is great if you want to obfuscate your
> code and keep your client bound to you for any ongoing work, as only
> developers who already understand the framework and OO will be able to
> understand it, which will cut most
Read it in the context it is intended.
If you don't understand, best to try it out for yourself.
Russ
-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 April 2006 13:00
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
Snake wrote:
>
> Tam
Snake wrote:
>
> Tame something very simple, a web page
> And make it ridiculously complicated by turning it into an object oriented
> application.
Do you think that object oriented applications are by definition
ridiculously complicated?
> You can't just open a page in dreamweaver anymore and
get a shock I think.
Russ
-Original Message-
From: Nathan Strutz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 April 2006 08:09
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
Wow, way to post a troll message, Russ. Watch your back, the framework nazis
know where you sleep...
Nah, actually,
t.
Russ
-Original Message-
From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 April 2006 03:11
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Newbie Model Glue Questions
> Model-glue and similar frameworks is great if you want to obfuscate
> your code and keep your client bound to you for any on
Snake wrote:
> Model-glue and similar frameworks is great if you want to obfuscate your
> code and keep your client bound to you for any ongoing work, as only
> developers who already understand the framework and OO will be able to
> understand it, which will cut most average web developers.
At le
nd to you for any ongoing work, as only
> developers who already understand the framework and OO will be able to
> understand it, which will cut most average web developers.
>
> Russ
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nathan Strutz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 07 April
> Model-glue and similar frameworks is great if you
> want to obfuscate your code and keep your client
> bound to you for any ongoing work
Not so much.
There are too many people using Fusebox, Model Glue or Mach-II for
that to be any reason to keep the programmer you have currently if
they are do
Message-
From: Nathan Strutz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 07 April 2006 23:34
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Newbie Model Glue Questions
didn't see a reply, so,
I can try my hand though...
4) Yes, from what I can tell, it's a pain. Wait for Model-Glue 2 with
includes. Also, I suppose it m
didn't see a reply, so,
I can try my hand though...
4) Yes, from what I can tell, it's a pain. Wait for Model-Glue 2 with
includes. Also, I suppose it may work to do XML includes... worth a shot,
huh? Check this page:
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/07/31/xinclude.html
5) No, you can make a contr
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