Well, as a Lucent employee I can say that the company had made a effort to take care of its employees, which I commend them for. As far as the Karma factor, I would almost be willing to say that you can bank on the fact that people will remember who was naughty or nice and think before joining those organizations. My point was simply that structural reorganization means many different things to many different companies regardless of the fact that they are in same industry(for example how MarchFirst treated their employees in contrast with how Lucent has treated us). Like an earlier poster alluded to, there are several forums and websites devoted to chronicling the shameful acts of corporate entities so I wouldn't loose too much sleep over it. For those employees who lost out though, my heart and condolesences go out in full to them. It is deplorable to think that a persons hard work (although it happens all the damn time in many industries), is rewarded with bunk. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of xc Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 10:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT- Another cool thing about Cisco (Re: Cisco fire staff) [7:2429] Sure, every company is re-evaluating its cost structure now. But in my opinion, there is a right and wrong way to do this. Clearly the wrong way is to screw employees out of backpay/severance/expenses (like what Marchfirst did, as was profiled on CNET a few weeks ago), or try to retroactively change employee's pension/retirement funds (it sounds illegal, but you'd be surprised what creative corporate lawyers will try), or some BullS like that. The right way is to do things like what Cisco, Nortel, or Lucent (yes Lucent I have heard also has tried to take care of its employees). What I hope is that the poor behavior of the bad companies will come back to haunt them. Like when the economy recovers, and these companies try to hire again, they find it difficult to find any takers, because everybody remembers how they didn't give a rat's posterior about their employees when times were bad. Rather, all the job candidates will flock to the 'good-guy' companies where they know they will be taken care of, whether times are good or bad. Call it corporate Karma. But, it's probably a pipe dream. ""William E. Gragido"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Cisco is not the only company doing it, Lucent is as is Nortel and many > others. Right now, its just a case of corporations re-evaluating their > costs vs their revenues. Its nothing personal(in most cases I would > imagine). > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > xc > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 8:55 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: OT- Another cool thing about Cisco (Re: Cisco fire staff) > [7:2421] > > > Another way to get revenge is to tell as many people as possible not to work > for those evil companies. Only way that evil companies will stop behaving > this way is if they find that nobody works for them, because of their > penchant for screwing employees. Instead, the best people will continue to > flock to 'good-guy' companies like Cisco and Nortel, even at lower pay, > because of their humane reputation. > > > > > > > > ""Doug Hammond"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > I absolutely have to agree. There are ways to lay people off that is > > dignified and respectful. Then there's the way NEC BNS did it! Last week, > I > > was in my boss's office talking about something completely unrelated when > he > > says "Oh, by the way" and hands me a lay-off notice. An hour later I'm > > history. NO f***** idea in the world it was gonna happen. Yeah, I'm > > reallllly full of warm and fuzzy feelings now. Sure the economy sucks, I > can > > understand that. But, as my daddy always said, "It's the measure of a man > > how he acts like when he's down. Anybody can be a good guy when times are > > good!". You know what, he was right. > > > > Now back to my rack. The best revenge is success. > > > > ""xc"" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > This is an addendum to a previous post. Somebody asked about for > opinions > > > about Cisco's announced layoffs of 8500 people. > > > > > > I responded that every tech company is going through hell right now, but > > > Cisco had the forethought and compassion to offer 6 months severance (2 > > > months automatic, an additional 4 if you sign their severance > agreement), > > > which stands in stark contrast to certain other companies who not only > > gave > > > no severance, but declared bankruptcy while still owing backpay and > > expenses > > > to employees (the Web consulting company Marchfirst immediately comes to > > > mind - the bankruptcy judge of that case has even declared that > employees > > > who are owed backpay/expenses have to get in line behind the major > > > creditors, so you know those employeers are going to get nothing). Then > > > there are stories of people getting severance checks that bounced, > > companies > > > laying off people in violation of the Federal WARN labor laws, > companies > > > giving job offers and then trying to retroactively withdraw the offer > > after > > > the offer was accepted (presumably the candidate had turned down other > > > competing offers to take the offer which is now being withdrawn), etc. > > etc. > > > > > > If you're going to have to lay off people, offering 6 months severance > > seems > > > to be a more-than-compassionate way to do it. Several other posters > > talked > > > about similar deals offered by Nortel and other companies when they laid > > > people off. So it's pretty clear that some companies have positioned > > > themselves as 'the good guys' (as opposed to other companies who have > > > clearly shown themselves to be the 'bad guys'), so that they will be the > > > employer-of-choice when the economy picks up again. These companies > have > > > tried to preserve goodwill among the networking community so that they > > will > > > have little problem in hiring again. > > > > > > While I am not trying to downplay the pain that those laid-off Cisco or > > > Nortel employees must be feeling, on the other hand, they could have > been > > > working for one of those www.fuc*edcompany.com employers like > Marchfirst. > > > > > > Well, to build up even more goodwil, recently, it was announced that > John > > > Chambers is cutting his salary to $1. The chairman (forgot his name) is > > > also cutting his salary to $1. The management stated that since so much > > > cost-cutting was going on at Cisco, management should share in the pain. > > > > > > I don't begrudge company execs getting rich when times are good, but it > is > > > so refreshing to see execs sharing in the bad times. A world of > > difference > > > from the usual M.O., where execs slash thousands of jobs and still reap > > > their millions. As stated in fuc*edcompanyL "These guys seem to have > > worked > > > out that you don't have to be an as*hole to make money. Bravo. About > > fuc*ing > > > time someone got a clue" > > > > > > Now some of you may be thinking that the $1 salary is just a Cisco > > > publicity stunt. Sure, maybe so. > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=2438&t=2438 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
