Phil, Welcome to the fold... At the risk of prolonging an off topic thread that had probably gone on too long already, let me just say, a Fortune 500 company that pays 2-3 times market value for skillsets that are in abundance will probably not occupy a spot in the Fortune 500 for long. When I estimate 2-3 times market value, I am not referring to the NT skillset either. A veteran project manager can reasonably expect to make $120-$150k/yr. There are bound to be exceptions, but I doubt highly that anyone making above that range would bother bragging to a Cisco list about it, particularly touting himself as an NT expert, where the high end of the range is probably $80-$100k/yr. Further, an hourly billing rate of $150/hr translates north of $300k/yr ($312k, to be precise). Finally, an answer to the original question, why Unix guys look down on NT guys... My personal grudge against Microsoft is multifaceted... For starters, I'm not fond of Microsoft's business practices. Their efforts to stifle innovation, to the point of destroying other companies that actually did manage true innovation, are legendary, and well documented. As a proponent of the free-market, and a firm believer that competition in the marketplace benefits the consumer, how can I possibly be pro-Microsoft? I am also not pleased about the fact that the average Windows user has absolutely no idea how these wonderful machines work, and I lump NT Administrators in with that group (Average Windows Users). The term "IT Professional" implies a certain degree of expertise, or it used to. The teeming masses of know-nothing NT system administrators have forever tainted that category of skilled labor. Compare an NT systems administrator's depth of knowledge to that of a Unix systems administrator. There is very little to compare. In addition to knowing how to maintain his boxen, the Unix guy typically knows how to program, and I don't mean Visual Basic... I mean C, C++, and countless methods of shell scripting for automation. A Unix guy knows about system security... He does not run non-essential system services, because he understands that each active process on his machine represents a possible security vulnerability. As a result, he turns those services off. Ever run a system sweep against the average NT box? My god, who knew that there were corresponding services for all of those TCP port numbers? Run the same scan against the average Unix box... Chances are, it'll be far more mundane, with maybe a dozen services in use. An NT Administrator wears a tie... A Unix sysadmin wears a T-shirt, and occasionally it may even be clean. The Unix guy knows that he is indispensable to the organization, because he is capable of performing acts of deep wizardry. The NT guy hopes to make a good impression, because he knows that kids are getting out of High School with their MCSE, and he knows damn well he can be replaced. An NT Administrator sees that his shiny new Win2K box has an OSPF service, whatever that is, and he turns it on. A Unix sysadmin knows bloody well what OSPF does, and he turns it on, so that he can redirect network traffic through his desktop machine, perform some traffic shaping, and hog all of the network bandwidth for Napster and Porn downloads (Ok, maybe that's just me, but would an NT guy have thought of a way to do that?) While I could go on endlessly, further alienating NT Admins everywhere, I choose instead to close with this one salient point... A Unix guy not only knows what a FAQ is, but he generally makes an effort to find it, and once found, he typically reads it. When the time comes, he sends an email to majordomo, with a body of "unsubscribe cisco". Can the same be said of your average NT guy? I think not... Alan [To all of the genuinely useful NT folk out there, please accept my not so humble apology...] cc: alt.flame replys: /dev/null ----- Original Message ----- From: "Circusnuts" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 10:46 PM Subject: Re: another OT: why you UNIX guys look down on we NT guys? [7:6344] > Because Unix is all a cult !!! The only thing worse than Unix guys, are > SNA/ Main Frame dudes (with their VTAM's, FEP's, & Lu Lu Sessions :o) > > Pray for me- I start Unix classes Friday :-P > > Phil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Bond > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 10:14 PM > Subject: Re: another OT: why you UNIX guys look down on we NT guys? [7:6335] > > > > Oh yeah?! I'm win2000 roll out project manager for a > > fortune 500 company. I make $150 per hour. Hope you > > can figure out, SMART Unix guy. > > > > And Chuck, no problem. I just don't like some people > > (like SMART Russ) knows a little than others then show > > off that much. > > > > > > > > --- Russ Kreigh wrote: > > > We look down upon you because you have to brag about > > > how much you make. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jim Bond" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 7:40 PM > > > Subject: another OT: why you UNIX guys look down on > > > we NT guys? [7:6323] > > > > > > > > > > UNIX guys, > > > > > > > > I make $240K per year, how much you make? Why you > > > guys > > > > look down on us??? I don't get it... > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > NT guy > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great > > > prices > > > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=6358&t=6358 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
