Re: [CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification )

Mike Taylor wrote: Going back to someone's point about living in the real world (sorry, I forget who), the Inconvenient Truth is that 90% of programs and 99% of users, on seeing an http: URL, will try to treat it as a link. They don't know any better. And they can't know any better because

Re: [CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification )

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:44, Mike Taylor wrote: > Going back to someone's point about living in the real > world (sorry, I forget who), the Inconvenient Truth is that 90% of > programs and 99% of users, on seeing an http: URL, will try to treat > it as a link.  They don't know any better. What o

Re: [CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification )

Erik Hetzner writes: > Could somebody explain to me the way in which this identifier: > > > > does not work *as an identifier*, absent any way of getting > information about the referent, in a way that: > > > > does work? A quick clarification - before I digest

Re: [CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification )

I keep telling myself I'm going to stop posting on this thread, but ... Erik Hetzner writes: > Could somebody explain to me the way in which this identifier: > > > > does not work *as an identifier*, absent any way of getting > information about the referent,

Re: [CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification )

At Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:34:12 -0400, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: > […] > > I think too much of this conversation is about people's ideal vision of > how things _could_ work, rather than trying to make things work as best > as we can in the _actual world we live in_, _as well as_ planning for > the fu

Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?

At Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:29:49 +0100, Rob Sanderson wrote: > All I meant by that was that the info:doi/ URI is more informative as to > what the identifier actually is than just the doi by itself, which could > be any string. Equally, if I saw an SRW info URI like: > > info:srw/cql-context-set/2/rel

Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Jonathan Rochkind wrote: > Note this isn't as much of a problem for "born web" resources -- nobody's > going to accidentally create an alternate URI for a dbpedia term, because > anybody that knows about dbpedia knows that it lives at dbpedia. Unless they use the

Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?

Rob Sanderson wrote: info URIs, In My Opinion, are ideally suited for long term identifiers of non information resources. But http URIs are definitely better than something which isn't a URI at all. Through this discussion I am clarifying my thoughts on this too. I feel that info URIs are

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Hi Ray - At Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:48:19 -0400, Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress wrote: > > You're right, if there were a "web:" URI scheme, the world would be a > better place. But it's not, and the world is worse off for it. Well, the original concept of the ‘web’ was, as I understand it, to

Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?

On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 18:11 +0100, Erik Hetzner wrote: > At Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:47:50 +0100, > Mike Taylor wrote: > > > > Erik Hetzner writes: > > > Without external knowledge that info:doi/10./xxx is a URI, I can > > > only guess. > > > > Yes, that is true. The point is that by specifying

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

An account that has a depressing ring of accuracy to it. Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress writes: > You're right, if there were a "web:" URI scheme, the world would be a > better place. But it's not, and the world is worse off for it. > > It shouldn't surprise anyone that I am sympathet

[CODE4LIB] Reminder: Lecture/Discussion, New York Public Library, April 6: "Of Maps and Metadata", Dr. Tim Sherratt, National Archives of Australia

Please accept my apology for any duplicate copies of this message you might receive. Redistribute as appropriate. = http://www.nypl.org/research/calendar/class/hssl/talkdesc.cfm?id=5351 Of maps and metadata: Explorations in online access at the National Archives of Australia Dr. Tim Sherr

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

You're right, if there were a "web:" URI scheme, the world would be a better place. But it's not, and the world is worse off for it. It shouldn't surprise anyone that I am sympathetic to Karen's criticisms. Here is some of my historical perspective (which may well differ from others'). Ba

Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?

At Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:47:50 +0100, Mike Taylor wrote: > > Erik Hetzner writes: > > Without external knowledge that info:doi/10./xxx is a URI, I can > > only guess. > > Yes, that is true. The point is that by specifying that the rft_id > has to be a URI, you can then use other kinds of URI

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Houghton,Andrew writes: > > > RFC 3986 (URI generic syntax) says that "http:" is a URI scheme > > > not a protocol. Just because it says "http" people make all > > > kinds of assumptions about type of use, persistence, > > > resolvability, etc. > > > > And RFC 2616 (Hypertext transfer proto

Re: [CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification )

Houghton,Andrew wrote: I think the answer lies in DNS. Even though you have a single DNS name requests could be redirected to one of multiple servers, called a server farm. I believe this is how many large sites, like Google, operate. So even if a single server fails the load balancer sends req

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Uh, before this gets completely out of hand, UC is still running a PURL server, see for example: Roy On 4/2/09 4/2/09 € 8:07 AM, "Mike Taylor" wrote: > Karen Coyle writes: >>> OK, good, then if you are concerned

[CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification )

Jonathan Rochkind writes: > Isn't there always a single point of failure if you are expecting > to be able to resolve an http URI via the HTTP protocol? Yes (modulo the use of multiple servers at a single IP address). But failure of a given document is typically not catastrophic -- there are pl

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Mike Taylor wrote: Wait, what? They _were_ running a PURL resolver, but now they're not? What does the P in PURL stand for again? Which, Mike, is why I'd rather have a single point of failure at purl.org, an organization which understands it's persistence mission and is likely to be suppo

Re: [CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification )

> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of > Jonathan Rochkind > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:53 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: [CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution > and identification ) > > Isn't there always a single point

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Karen Coyle writes: > > OK, good, then if you are concerned about the PURL services SPOF, > > take the freely available PURL software and created a distributed > > PURL based system and put it up for the community. I think > > several people have looked at this, but I have not heard of any >

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of > Karen Coyle > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:15 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: > [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?) > > Houghton,Andrew wrote: > > RFC

[CODE4LIB] points of failure (was Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification )

Isn't there always a single point of failure if you are expecting to be able to resolve an http URI via the HTTP protocol? Whether it's purl.org or not, there's always a single point of failure on a given http URI that you expect to resolve via HTTP, the entity operating the web server at the

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Houghton,Andrew wrote: OK, good, then if you are concerned about the PURL services SPOF, take the freely available PURL software and created a distributed PURL based system and put it up for the community. I think several people have looked at this, but I have not heard of any progress or im

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Houghton,Andrew writes: > > > > I have to say I am suspicious of schemes like PURL, which > > > > for all their good points introduce a single point of > > > > failure into, well, everything that uses them. That can't > > > > be good. Especially as it's run by the same compary that > >

[CODE4LIB] Evergreen conference Early Bird deadline

If you are planning to attend the Evergreen International Conference (May 20-22, Athens, Georgia), please note that Early Bird registration ends tomorrow, Friday, April 3. Also note the NEW conference web address: http://www.lyrasis.org/evergreen We have 18 great programs lined up and two great k

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Houghton,Andrew wrote: RFC 3986 (URI generic syntax) says that "http:" is a URI scheme not a protocol. Just because it says "http" people make all kinds of assumptions about type of use, persistence, resolvability, etc. And RFC 2616 (Hypertext transfer protocol) says: "The HTTP protocol is

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of > Mike Taylor > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:07 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: > [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?) > > Houghton,Andrew writes: > > >

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Houghton,Andrew writes: > > I have to say I am suspicious of schemes like PURL, which for all > > their good points introduce a single point of failure into, well, > > everything that uses them. That can't be good. Especially as > > it's run by the same compary that also runs the often-unavai

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of > Mike Taylor > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:41 AM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: > [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?) > > I have to say I am suspicious o

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of > Karen Coyle > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:26 PM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: > [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?) > > This really puzzles me, becaus

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification

Jonathan Rochkind writes: > > Organization need to have a clear understanding of what they are > > minting URIs for. > > Precisely. And in the real world... they don't always have > that. Neither the minters nor the users of URIs, especially the > users of http URIs, where you can find so ma

Re: [CODE4LIB] Pacific Northwest Code4Lib chapter and meeting

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Reese, Terry wrote: > FYI for the larger group.  Since many members in the PNW simply cannot > travel to the larger C4L meeting due to budgetary restraints (this year, > and very likely the next), etc -- we will be starting up a PNW local > chapter and hosting a one

[CODE4LIB] oclc data sharing policy survey

[Posted on behalf of Jennifer Younger, this is an additional announcement regarding the OCLC data sharing policy survey. Please consider completing the survey (http://tinyurl.com/ctptuy). --ELM] Dear Colleague: As chair of the OCLC Review Board on Shared Data Creation and Stewardship, I

Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?

Erik Hetzner writes: > > Not quite. Embedding a DOI in an info URI (or a URN) means that > > the identifier describes its own type. If you just get the naked > > string > >10./j.1475-4983.2007.00728.x > > passed to you, say as an rft_id in an OpenURL, then you can't > > tell (except

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of > Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:38 PM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: > [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?) > > No, no

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

Ross Singer writes: > Ray, you are absolutely right. These would be bad identifiers. But > let's say they're all identical (which I think is what you're saying, > right?), then this just strengthens the case for indirection through a > service like purl.org. Then it doesn't *matter* that all

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:code4...@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of > Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 1:59 PM > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: > [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?) > > We do j

[CODE4LIB] mailing list administratativa

This is a bit of mailing list administratativa. First, the list turned itself off yesterday because we exceeded the 50 messages/day limit. Hmmm... I have turned the list back on. Second, you can manage your subscription at the following URL. You might want to turn on digest mode: http:/

[CODE4LIB] Pacific Northwest Code4Lib chapter and meeting

FYI for the larger group. Since many members in the PNW simply cannot travel to the larger C4L meeting due to budgetary restraints (this year, and very likely the next), etc -- we will be starting up a PNW local chapter and hosting a one day C4L meeting for those in the area that are interested, b

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

This really puzzles me, because I thought http referred to a protocol: hypertext transfer protocol. And when you put "http://"; in front of something you are indicating that you are sending the following string along to be processed by that protocol. It implies a certain application over the we

Re: [CODE4LIB] resolution and identification (was Re: [CODE4LIB] registering info: uris?)

No, not identical URIs. Let's say I've put a copy of the schema permanently at each of the following locations. http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/v3/mods-3-3.xsd http://www.acme.com//mods-3-3.xsd http://www.takoma.org/standards/mods-3-3.xsd Three locations, three URIs. But the issue of redir