IT'S INSANE, THIS VOTE'S TAINT.
-Mike
P.S. Hat tip to Bob & David.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 22:25, Simon Spero wrote:
> I think this calls for an unwritten rule engine.
> On Dec 1, 2011 10:22 PM, "Ross Singer" wrote:
>
>> I think the point of the hubbub today is trying to articulate the rule t
I think this calls for an unwritten rule engine.
On Dec 1, 2011 10:22 PM, "Ross Singer" wrote:
> I think the point of the hubbub today is trying to articulate the rule that
> should be written.
>
> Nobody is being excluded: we make things up as they go along and anybody is
> welcome to throw in
I think the point of the hubbub today is trying to articulate the rule that
should be written.
Nobody is being excluded: we make things up as they go along and anybody is
welcome to throw in their opinion.
That said, there's over 5 years of this process already in place. Very
little is written,
It's also worth noting that the voters (so far) have done a super job. If your
talk is not making the cut, don't take it as a reflection or judgment on you or
your work. It just means that voters want to save you for next year. And if
your talk IS making the cut, it's probably because voters wan
While I want to stress my position that there is nothing wrong with
advertising your proposal (including the source of this now-too-long
thread), it *would be* out of line to ask everybody in your organization to
vote for your proposal (outside of the exceptional workplace -- such as
Gluejar or Equ
I think that it's not out of bounds to ask people for c4l votes unless you're
offering tangible rewards in exchange for said votes. "Tangible rewards" as
used here shall in no circumstance be construed to apply to any offers of beer
or its nonalcoholic equivalent. "Non-alcoholic equivalent" as u
LAC Group is seeking a Marketing Communications Coordinator, on behalf of our
client, a technology company that has been on FORTUNE magazine's list of "100
Best Companies to Work For in America" for over a decade. We are looking for
someone who can coordinate global content updates for the compa
+1
-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ross
Singer
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 5:47 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Pandering for votes for code4lib sessions
As unwilling commissioner of elections, I'm s
I just wanted to let people know that I will be updating the
"Hosting a Code4Lib" sites with this year's information and
numbers (for hotel blocks etc) as well as other information that
would have been helpful. This will NOT happen until closer or
after the actual conference, mostly because the
Hi,
To add one clarification, since Equinox is not holding any registration
slots for the conference, the "free registration to Code4Lib" will be
done by reimbursing the awardees $150 each for the registration fee.
This reimbursement is in _addition_ to the $750 for travel and
accommodations.
So applied.
Roy
On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:20 PM, Maccabee Levine wrote:
> I think I like this song, but I won't know for sure until Roy applies the
> Seal of Approval.
>
> Maccabee
>
> On 12/1/2011 3:39 PM, Doran, Michael D wrote:
>>> I feel this whole situation has tainted things somewhat. :(
>>
I disagree that the voting procedure is flawed. I voted 12 times, which seems
downright generous.
Dan
-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Kevin
S. Clarke
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 2:00 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject
While I understand your frustration, I have come around to accepting
the system we have. Many of the folks who attend every year hold the
conference as one of their key annual events, and plan to register the
instant that tickets become available. I know that it sells out fast,
but the folks who ar
I think I like this song, but I won't know for sure until Roy applies
the Seal of Approval.
Maccabee
On 12/1/2011 3:39 PM, Doran, Michael D wrote:
I feel this whole situation has tainted things somewhat. :(
This incident appears to have been blown out of proportion.
So to lighten the mood a
Great... now this song is stuck in my head. ;-)
Nicely done, though...
Kevin
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Doran, Michael D wrote:
>> I feel this whole situation has tainted things somewhat. :(
>
> This incident appears to have been blown out of proportion.
>
> So to lighten the mood a bit,
It is unwritten rules that lead people to feel excluded from a group. How can
the C4L group make other feel part of the group if the "important" rules are
unwritten? That is what makes the group appear elitist to outsiders or newbies.
Bill Drew
Sort of a newbie but maybe not
-Original Mes
;-)
-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Doran,
Michael D
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 4:40 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Pandering for votes for code4lib sessions (humor)
> I feel this whole situation h
> I feel this whole situation has tainted things somewhat. :(
This incident appears to have been blown out of proportion.
So to lighten the mood a bit, I offer this doggerel inspired by the above
comment and with apologies to Ed Cobb, et al.:
Tainted Votes
Sometimes I feel I've got to
Ru
So this was what "pandering a vote" meant all along? And I guess you are
supposed to know this to count as a c4l community member? Unwritten rules
indeed...
~Bohyun
-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
Jonathan Rochkind
Sent: Thur
Well, what is it? What's the first rule? Can't take the suspense...! GAH!
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Genny Engel wrote:
> Can't. The first rule of unwritten rules is ...
>
> Genny
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
>
Can't. The first rule of unwritten rules is ...
Genny
-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Wilfred
Drew
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:51 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Unwritten Rules, formerly Pande
With the way code4lib works, you realize you just committed yourself
to writing them down, right? :)
-Mike
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 15:51, Wilfred Drew wrote:
> If it is that important, it should be written down!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.
If it is that important, it should be written down!
-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris
Cormack
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 3:36 PM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Unwritten Rules, formerly Pandering f
I'm still not even sure why people think the blog post violated any
unwritten rules or expectations. I agree that people kind of
unreasonably raked the author over the coals here.
I think _maybe_ under some interpretations it's borderline (some of
those interpretations are those of the READERS
Equinox Software is offering 2 scholarships to the code4lib conference
in February.
The scholarships will reimburse travel and accommodation expenses up to
$750.00 USD for a full-time employee from public libraries using either
Evergreen or Koha to attend the Code4Lib Conference in Seattle,
W
As a relative newcomer to this list, I second the idea that any offenders be
contacted off list with an explanation of any unwritten rules they unknowingly
violate. I suggest this becomes one of c4l's unwritten rules.
Regards,
Doris
Doris Munson
Systems/Reference Librarian
Eastern Washington
On 2 December 2011 09:33, Munson, Doris wrote:
> As a relative newcomer to this list, I second the idea that any offenders be
> contacted off list with an explanation of any unwritten rules they
> unknowingly violate. I suggest this becomes one of c4l's unwritten rules.
>
>
I totally just unwro
Eh, I'm still intuitively opposed to pull parsing. Okay, so there are
some useful libraries these days if you are using the right
language. If you're using ruby and don't want to use native C code?
Just as an example. Seems like we want to arrive at something easy
enough to interpret _anyw
Other Nate,
this is *exactly* the advice I needed.
indeed, i want to interact with the circles.
Much thanks!
N
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Nate Vack wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Nate Hill
> wrote:
> > I should have provided a bit more information here.
> >
> > Here's a rough
On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:49 PM, Nate Hill wrote:
> As I was struggling with the syntax trying to figure out how to use
> javascript to load a .txt file, process it and then spit out some html on a
> web page, I suddenly found myself asking why I was trying to do it with
> javascript rather than PHP.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Michael B. Klein wrote:
> +1 to marc-in-json
> +1 to newline-delimited records
> +1 to read support
> +1 to edsu, rsinger, BillDueber, gmcharlt, and the other module maintainers
All this incrementing is making me want to work on node-marc some more.
Responding to the thread and not this specific email...
This conversation has an unfortunate subtext of "us v. them." It is
the case that c4l is a small-ish group that has a particular
personality, and folks really care about that. And the c4l conference
(which I only attended once) has a g
I was a strong proponent of NDJ at one point, but I've grown less strident
and more weary since then.
Brad Baxter has a good overview of some options[1]. I'm assuming it's a
given we'd all prefer to work with valid JSON files if the pain-point can
be brought down far enough.
A couple years have p
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Nate Hill wrote:
> I should have provided a bit more information here.
>
> Here's a rough in-progress view of what I'm up to.
> http://www.natehill.net/loadsketch/donerightclasses.html
>
> I was using processing.js to read a file and then visualize some of the
> da
===
DC-2012 Call for Participation
===
International Conference on Dublin Core and Metadata Applications:
"Metadata for Meeting Global Challenges"
3-7 September 2012, Kuching, Sarawak, Malaysia
Conference Website: http://purl.org/dcevents/d
Sometimes asking the question helps you arrive at the answer, especially
when you have to explain to us people without the context why our
answers weren't what you were asking!
I am only vaguely familiar (as in "heard of it") with processing.js. Is
it typically run client-side in the browser,
The Code4Lib Conference Planning Group is calling for
proposals to host the 2013 Code4Lib Conference. Information on the
kind of venue we seek and the delineation of responsibilities between
the host organization and the Planning Group can be found at the
conference hosting web page [1] and on the
I should have provided a bit more information here.
Here's a rough in-progress view of what I'm up to.
http://www.natehill.net/loadsketch/donerightclasses.html
I was using processing.js to read a file and then visualize some of the
data... you can see the circles are being generated from the valu
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Nate Hill wrote:
> As I was struggling with the syntax trying to figure out how to use
> javascript to load a .txt file, process it and then spit out some html on a
> web page, I suddenly found myself asking why I was trying to do it with
> javascript rather than P
My general approach is "server-side first". Unless it's wildly easier to
accomplish something client-side, then I think it makes sense to go for the
consistency of server-side processing.
So taking a text file, doing some processing, and spitting out what should
behave for the user as if it's
Well, you need to use javascript if you want it to run in a browser. So
that's one reason to pick it, and the main reason people pick it for
it's most popular uses.
It will be very difficult to get javascript running in a browser to do
what you just said though. Not sure if you were running y
Excellent! Thanks for working with the situation :-)
//Ed
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Jason Ronallo wrote:
> Ed,
> I'd like to still fit the article into the next issue. I agree that
> the cultural heritage community needs more exposure to these new web
> standards. With the increased intere
Damn auto-complete :-) Oh well, I guess everyone knows how inept I am now!
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Ed Summers wrote:
> Excellent! Thanks for working with the situation :-)
>
> //Ed
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Jason Ronallo wrote:
>> Ed,
>> I'd like to still fit the article into th
+1 to marc-in-json
+1 to newline-delimited records
+1 to read support
+1 to edsu, rsinger, BillDueber, gmcharlt, and the other module maintainers
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Keith Jenkins wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Gabriel Farrell
> wrote:> I suspect newline-delimited will wi
As I was struggling with the syntax trying to figure out how to use
javascript to load a .txt file, process it and then spit out some html on a
web page, I suddenly found myself asking why I was trying to do it with
javascript rather than PHP.
Is there a right/wrong or better/worse approach for do
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Ross Singer wrote:
> Last year we had 129
> unique voters for the proposals, roughly unchanged from Asheville
> (119). Both cases FAR fewer than the number of delegates (and more
> importantly, the number of people that wanted to be delegates).
Just a thought: If
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Gabriel Farrell
wrote:> I suspect newline-delimited will win this race.
Yes. Everyone please cast a vote for newline-delimited JSON.
Is there any consensus on the appropriate mime type for ndj?
Keith
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Andreas Orphanides <
andreas_orphani...@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> I think imposing strictures on the voting process goes a little bit against
> something fundamental about Code4Lib's anarcho-democratic underpinnings.
>
Agreed. But as the size of the community increases, y
I would also mention that we generally expect people voting to either
plan to at least potentially attend the conference, or have a prior
participation/affiliation/interest in the Code4Lib Community. We're not
expecting random people to be voting just for the hell of it, or to help
our a freind
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Bill Dueber wrote:
> I, at least, already use marc-in-json in production (It's a great way to
> store MARC in solr). It would be great if folks would have the confidence
> to use it, at least as a single-record format. I think for wider adoption
> we'll need to all
Robert, you raise an extremely valid point. Last year we had 129
unique voters for the proposals, roughly unchanged from Asheville
(119). Both cases FAR fewer than the number of delegates (and more
importantly, the number of people that wanted to be delegates).
Now, any citizen of a western-styl
Yes, use marc-in-json. We should add read support as well while we're at it.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Ed Summers wrote:
> Martin Czygan recently added JSON support to pymarc [1]. Before this
> gets rolled into a release I was wondering if it might make sense to
> bring the implementation i
Ross:
+1 to the disclaimer splash page. That seems to be the best way to maintain our
faith in humanity to do the right thing.
Dan
I will speak to this one time and then I am done.
My attempts at advertising the vote were to make more people aware of it
and to get more votes in general. That is the democratic way. In fact
there have been comments added to these posts on our OLE blog from
code4lib members. During my time in ho
This is true, and something I didn't even think of. Ballot stuffers don't
seem to be able to have the impact of a good proposal. If they did, some
pretty strange schedules would probably have emerged by now. :)
On 12/1/11 10:35 AM, "Ross Singer" wrote:
>Also, I should note, that the alleged pa
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Tom Keays wrote:
>> One thing I would be open to is to put a disclaimer splash page before
>> any ballot (only to be seen the first time a person votes) briefly
>> explaining how the ballot works and to mention that ballot stuffing is
>> "unethical, undemocratic and
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:35, Ross Singer wrote:
> Also, I should note, that the alleged pandering has not helped them
> much, if at all, so far.
>
And, also also, this happens just about every year with just about
every vote; if Code4Lib is tainted, it happened years ago and we've
still put on e
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Michael J. Giarlo
wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 08:47, Ross Singer wrote:
>>
>> One thing I would be open to is to put a disclaimer splash page before
>> any ballot (only to be seen the first time a person votes) briefly
>> explaining how the ballot works and to
On Dec 1, 2011, at 10:29 AM, Ross Singer wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Richard, Joel M wrote:
>> I feel this whole situation has tainted things somewhat. :(
>>
>
> Let's not blow things out of proportion. The aforementioned
> wrong-doing actually seems pretty innocent (there is bac
Also, I should note, that the alleged pandering has not helped them
much, if at all, so far.
-Ross.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Ross Singer wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Richard, Joel M wrote:
>> I feel this whole situation has tainted things somewhat. :(
>>
>
> Let's not blow
On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:47 AM, Ross Singer wrote:
> As unwilling commissioner of elections, I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I say,
> to hear of improprieties with the voting process.
It could be worse ... I'm an unwilling elected official. (and the re-election
for my third term is next month ... anyone want
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Richard, Joel M wrote:
> I feel this whole situation has tainted things somewhat. :(
>
Let's not blow things out of proportion. The aforementioned
wrong-doing actually seems pretty innocent (there is backstory in the
IRC channel, I'm not going to bring it up here
-Original Message-
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael
J. Giarlo
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:55 AM
To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Software Developer position @ Penn State
Come hack on Ruby on Rails, jQuery, Hydra, Black
I too agree that the two things we should do are: present a clear
statement on how session selection works; and craft a statement on
ethics that will be so artful as to actually discourage virtual ballot
box stuffing and not just put evil ideas in folks; heads.
On my part, I have had my dogs sign
On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:47 AM, Ross Singer wrote:
> I am absolutely opposed to:
>
> 1) Setting weights on voting. 0 is just as valid a vote as 3.
> 2) Publicly shaming the offenders in Code4Lib. If you run across
> impropriety in a forum, make a friendly, yet firm, reminder that
> ballot stuffing
> One thing I would be open to is to put a disclaimer splash page before
> any ballot (only to be seen the first time a person votes) briefly
> explaining how the ballot works and to mention that ballot stuffing is
> "unethical, undemocratic and tears at the fabric that is Code4Lib" or
> some such.
I've worked to deprecate marc-hash (what tends to be referred to as "Bill
Dueber's JSON format") in favor of Ross's marc-in-json. To the best of my
knowledge, there is marc-in-json support for ruby (current ruby-marc), PHP
(current File_MARC), marc4j (currently in trunk, soon to be released, I
thin
> One thing I would be open to is to put a disclaimer splash page before
> any ballot (only to be seen the first time a person votes) briefly
> explaining how the ballot works and to mention that ballot stuffing is
> "unethical, undemocratic and tears at the fabric that is Code4Lib" or
> some such.
FWIW, I wrote a proof of concept for this when there was discussion
about it on perl4lib:
http://search.cpan.org/dist/MARC-Utils-MARC2MARC_in_JSON/
It also includes code for iterating over a multi-record file based on
my ideas here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Baxter.brad/Drafts/JSON_Docum
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 08:47, Ross Singer wrote:
>
> One thing I would be open to is to put a disclaimer splash page before
> any ballot (only to be seen the first time a person votes) briefly
> explaining how the ballot works and to mention that ballot stuffing is
> "unethical, undemocratic and t
Ed, I think this would be great. Obviously, there's zero
standardization around MARC/JSON (Andrew Houghton has come the
"closest" by writing up the most RFC-y proposal:
http://www.oclc.org/developer/content/marc-json-draft-2010-03-11).
I generally fall more in the camp of "working code wins", tho
On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:34 AM, "Richard, Joel M" wrote:
> In the end, the conference organizers can invite whoever they want to speak.
> The voting ends up being a courtesy to the rest of us.
>
> --Joel
>
> Joel Richard
> Lead Web Developer, Web Services Department
> Smithsonian Institution Libra
As unwilling commissioner of elections, I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I say,
to hear of improprieties with the voting process.
That said, I'm not shocked (and we've seen it before).
I am absolutely opposed to:
1) Setting weights on voting. 0 is just as valid a vote as 3.
2) Publicly shaming the offende
Deleting votes is a risky business, and disqualifying the speaker is
somewhat harsh. What would be the criteria for votes eliminated, if we
can't factor the number of sessions they vote for into the process?
Wouldn't giving encouragement to vote on all sessions--even if your vote
is "0"--not put
I disagree with this suggestion. Personally I vote for only those I find
interesting and useful to me, but I don't put an response for every talk
listed. I only respond on those I'm interested. Everyone else gets 0 points. I
would expect that others do this, too. Katherine's suggestion also puts
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:13 AM, Seth Robbins wrote:
> Which brings me to my original reason for posting: Is there, at present, a
> publicly available subject guide for librarian coders that anyone knows of?
> and would anyone be interested in collaborating on such a guide even if
> just to give fe
I have mixed feelings on the idea of requiring a minimum weight in the
voting process. Vote pandering is definitely a real issue, but I think
imposing strictures on the voting process goes a little bit against
something fundamental about Code4Lib's anarcho-democratic underpinnings. I
think one of t
I was actually going to suggest just this, Kåre! Another way to handle
it, or perhaps an additional way, would be give a user's votes a certain
amount of weight proportionate to the number of sessions they voted on.
So if they evaluated all of them and voted, 100% of their vote gets
counted. If t
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Michael B. Klein
> In any case, I'm interested to see how effective this current "call
> for
> support" is.
Me too!
Could someone with access to the voting data perhaps anonymously pull out how
many voters have given
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Matthew Phillips
wrote:
> I'm the guy that did the hacking (with help from my coworkers, Jeff and
> David) to get Hacker News up and running. If you have technical questions
> about the site, shoot them my way.
Nice work. It's great to see it starting to get us
Martin Czygan recently added JSON support to pymarc [1]. Before this
gets rolled into a release I was wondering if it might make sense to
bring the implementation in line with Ross Singer's proposed JSON
serialization for MARC [2]. After quickly looking around it seems to
be what got implemented in
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