Thanks for posting this Roy - it's a great start for the community to
rally around and discuss.
I'd really like to help get this message out more widely, so people
can start to really debate the problems. I'd love to host a bit of a
panel discussion on this - for a podcast; would you be up for th
As you may recall, last week I asked for input and feedback on a draft
"library software manifesto" I was going to talk about at a conference. I
did, and I've taken the key points of the talk and posted them on my
TechEssence.info site at:
http://techessence.info/manifesto/
I specifically created
4:53 PM
To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library Software Manifesto
I just saw Roy's presentation, and it was good. Faced with a restive
but not radicalized audience of SD customers, Roy moved the issue
another couple yards toward what most members of Code4Lib believe and
want, but
On 11/8/07 2:07 PM, "Keith Jenkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 2007 4:53 PM, Tim Spalding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I just saw Roy's presentation, and it was good.
>
> Tim, what was the venue for Roy's presentation?
>
> Keith
I can answer this...the "Customers of Dynix, Inc." (COD
On Nov 8, 2007 4:53 PM, Tim Spalding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just saw Roy's presentation, and it was good.
Tim, what was the venue for Roy's presentation?
Keith
I just saw Roy's presentation, and it was good. Faced with a restive
but not radicalized audience of SD customers, Roy moved the issue
another couple yards toward what most members of Code4Lib believe and
want, but without any harshness or rancor.
But those of us who are angrier than Roy need to k
On Nov 6, 2007, at 12:07 PM, Roy Tennant wrote:
I have a presentation coming up and I'm considering doing what I'm
calling a
"Library Software Manifesto". Some of the following may not be
completely
understandable on the face of it, and I would be explaining the
meaning
during the presentation,
A couple of thoughts having just returned from DLF and RubyConf
In today's world I would much sooner buy software with a 100% converage
test harness and no documentation than the other way around. So as a
"right" I would suggest you include
-- I have a right to software with an open test harnes
Perhaps the poster was paraphrasing the quote "Writing about music is like
dancing about architecture."
At least that's how I read it.
- Mike
__
Mike Kmiec
Lead Developer : Innovation Centre
National Library of New Zealand
Te Puna Matauranga o Aotearoa
[EMAIL PROTECTE
I appreciate and understand this perception, it is certainly not uncommon.
To compare this scenario to Microsoft isn't really comparing apples and apples.
They've clearly got the resources to pull of that level of testing and it's
because the markets into which the products are sold are radica
Carl Grant wrote:
a. You've got to accept responsibility for helping to test
software. There can be 1000's of pathways through code. We know you
want bug-free code, but the developer/vendor can't
test them all by
themselves or you'd never actually get the code!
I
I think it would be useful to replace the rights bit with those
things re-stated from the vendors perspective; on the basis that a
manifesto is about things that you intend to do rather than things
you want others to respect and also on the basis that it is clear who
you want to hear your message.
I really wish I could understand what you mean. I think I get the difference
between a contract and its enforcement and software architecture, but is
there a reason why these should not be addressed in the same talk? There is
clearly something I'm not getting here, so perhaps further explication co
On 11/6/07, Roy Tennant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a presentation coming up and I'm considering doing what I'm calling a
> "Library Software Manifesto".
It's a fine line between focusing people's attention on specific
aspects of how to enter into and enforce contracts and dancing about
ar
Thanks for providing your input Carl. I think is very good to get the
thoughts on this issue form someone with your background. For those who
haven't read it, even though it is a couple years old, I'd recommend
reading the article that Carl Grant and Rolad Dietz published in Library
Journal back
By the way, given the gems coming through on this discussion I want to be
explicit that if I use anything from you all that I hadn't already come up
with, you get credit in my presentation. Thanks,
Roy
On 11/6/07 11:56 AM, "Thomas Dowling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Roy Tennant wrote:
>> Consu
Roy Tennant wrote:
Consumer Rights
Coupla thoughts:
- I have a right to a reasonable return on my investment in a
maintenance contract
- I have a right not to be an involuntary beta tester
- I have a right to take technical questions to staff capable
of understanding and answering th
Original message
>Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:16:05 -0500
>From: Tim McGeary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library Software Manifesto
>To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu
>
>I think this depends entirely on what type of developer we are talking
>about.
I'm willing to jump in here as a long time vendor to add to the
customer responsibility list some items that would make developers/
vendors a lot happier..
1. Select software using a fair and reasonable process for both the
vendor and the organization (one could say a lot more here!)
2.
Hi Roy,
Not sure how to make this succinct enough to be elegant (i.e. a bullet
point) but...
We have a large enough staff to "break into" software when necessary. A
typical scenario is:
We need a feature added (or bug removed) to make workflow tenable
We request the feature (bug fix)
We hear "
that would help balance the picture, but
perhaps that's already in your plans ;).
Jon Gorman
Original message ----
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:07:45 -0800 From: Roy Tennant
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [CODE4LIB] Library Software Manifesto
To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu
I have a pr
At Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:07:45 -0800,
Roy Tennant wrote:
>
> I have a presentation coming up and I'm considering doing what I'm
> calling a "Library Software Manifesto". Some of the following may
> not be completely understandable on the face of it, and I would be
> explaining the meaning during the p
ovember 06, 2007 1:34 PM
To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library Software Manifesto
On 11/6/07 10:27 AM, "Jonathan Gorman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about an equivalent list from the vendor/software developer's
perspective?
> I think that would
other work to do ;).
Jon Gorman
Original message
>Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:33:33 -0800
>From: Roy Tennant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library Software Manifesto
>To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu
>
>On 11/6/07 10:27 AM, "Jonathan Gorman" <[EMAI
On 11/6/07 10:27 AM, "Jonathan Gorman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about an equivalent list from the vendor/software developer's perspective?
> I think that would help balance the picture, but perhaps that's already in
> your plans ;).
Funny you should ask...I had originally intended to do t
OTECTED]
http: http://oregonstate.edu/~reeset
***
From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Roy Tennant
Sent: Tue 11/6/2007 10:07 AM
To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu
Subject: [CODE4LIB] Library Software Manifesto
I have a presentation coming up and I'm considering doing what I'm calling a
"L
----
>Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:07:45 -0800
>From: Roy Tennant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [CODE4LIB] Library Software Manifesto
>To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu
>
>I have a presentation coming up and I'm considering doing what I'm calling a
>"Library Softw
Roy, WRT "I have a right to the API if I've bought the product", would
it be useful to add, maybe as a subpoint, "I have a right to implement
the API in an open source product even if I've signed an NDA dealing
with that API"? I understand vendor's (perceived) need for non
disclosure statements, b
I have a presentation coming up and I'm considering doing what I'm calling a
"Library Software Manifesto". Some of the following may not be completely
understandable on the face of it, and I would be explaining the meaning
during the presentation, but this is what I have so far and I'd be
intereste
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