Like new FreeRunner for sale

er powered this unit up. I can take paypal or cash if you're in Boulder, Colorado. Make an offer if you're interested. Thanks, Vinc Duran ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

Re: Openmoko Car Holder

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 8:08 PM, Dan Staley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > Just wanted to share my experience with using the moko as a GPS device > in the car. I found a car holder that works great on ebay and an > external GPS antenna. I took a few pictures and posted them at the > ad

Re: Should I update u-boot?

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 10:07 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > u-boot is effectively your bios and therefore fwiu facilitates power > > management and the like. > > > > Certain features will benefit like suspend and booting from ext3. > > I'dd add: recharging a Freeru

Re: [qtopia] Does qtopia desktop work with freerunner?

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Cédric Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 16:30, Kieran Fleming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Lorn, > > Could you perhaps point us in the direction of this program? I haven't > > been able to find it myself, and I worry it's one of those Tr

Re: [qtopia] Does qtopia desktop work with freerunner?

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thomas Bertani wrote: > > > > > > 2008/9/4 dorje <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > Qtopia Desktop is for Qtopia 2. and probably works with Opie.

Re: Flashing Om2008.8 rootfs under Windows is *LONG*

On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Abdelrazak Younes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You haven't even tried backing it up. Try and see how long *that* takes. > > They say it is much, much better with the Linux port of DFU-util (or > > rather, something is very very wrong with the Windows port). > >

Re: Qtopia WIFI WPA

On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Abdelrazak Younes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello, > > I must be blind but I can't find a GUI way to setup the Wifi with Latest > QTopia-4.3.2. Am I really blind or there is none? > > Abdel. Hi Abdel, I'm using 4.3.2 2008/8/28 from qtopia.net on my FreeRunne

Re: Fitting full-body InvisibleShield - order of application?

I didn't place the original post but I was thinking I should. It took a long time for me to get the full body protection on. Here's my recommendation. - Take the battery out - Reassemble the unit - Install all side strips - Install the back - Install the front - Install the scree

Re: New Qtopia-Images fixes suspend problem nearly complete!

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote: > well -- correct me if I am wrong, but the irony of the situation is that > suspend/wakeup is handled by the kernel, and qtopia images use stock > kernel from OM. Thus whatever suspend/resume achievements you see - they > are solely due

Re: InvibleShield at ZAGG : swindling ?!?

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Cédric DUFOUIL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Hi community, > > I ordered an InvibleShield protection at Zagg.com for my freerunner the > 18th of july and have been charged on my credit card but have no news about > my order (despite the fact that I sent them emails !!

Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue

> > One last thing, the voltage scaling and clock rate reduction patches > aren't in the kernel you used, they should be around in tomorrow's > packages: if you have 600 sec to spare it would be interesting to see if > they made any change :-) > > - -Andy > Hi Andy, To get that kernel you referen

Re: Warranty after fix for GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interferenceissue

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Andreas Bogk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm not a mathematician, but I think I have sufficiently understood > Kalman filters and dead reckoning. A little known trick is to use > ordinary integration with the strap-down equation given the > accelerometer and g

Re: WIKI still a POS

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Luke Scharf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Then your co-workers should get iPhones! I thought OpenMoko was for > those of us who would embrace a machine with a learning-curve for extra > capability. Probably the same crowd who uses Linux on the desktop. I read so

Re: WIKI still a POS

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A phone that NEEDS documentation is a POS. > > In my mind, the Neo won't be ready for end-users unless I can give it > to one of my co-workers and they can figure almost everything out > without documentation. > > -Steven If y

Re: Reply above Quotation

I'll see you in the funny farm. The rooms next to me all seem to be available. :-) On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 10:05 AM, arne anka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > the day i trust google with anything slighly looking as personal data i am > ready to go to the funny farm. > __

Re: WIKI still a POS

You should know it's improved significantly over the last couple weeks. To me it seems the Getting Started page in particular has been much improved. (That's where I've spent most of my time.) On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 7:11 AM, Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The OM Wiki is still a prime example

Re: GSM Antenna Connector part of Closed System?

Hi Scott! The right person just needs to look in the lower right corner of http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/c/c7/Gta01b_v3_case_top_open_pcb_lifted.jpg and say oh, that's a MHF II or whatever. I looked around with google and I bet it's going to turn out to be something like this http://www.alphamicr

Re: Tangogps pre-cache?

Thanks everyone. (Not trying to spam the list but being polite and acknowledging I got good answers.) On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Stefan Fröbe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Vinc, > >> I'd like to put the maps on the SD card. Is there a sensible path on >> the SD card I should use? > > Use

Re: Tangogps pre-cache?

Hi Jeff, I'd like to put the maps on the SD card. Is there a sensible path on the SD card I should use? Vinc On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Jeff Tickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:35:13 -0700 > "Steven Kurylo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> The tango gps documentation s

Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches

Hi Andy, Can you do your voodoo so that this will install from opkg upgrade? Thanks, Vinc Duran user On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Andy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Somebody in the thread at some point said: > |>

Re: Hot Pocket

Hi, My FR was getting *very *hot while trying to get a gps fix and also pretty warm just "on" in my shirt pocket. While scanning for gps it got hot enough that I put it right back down when I picked it up. I'd left if flat on a table. I think the GSM and Bluetooth were on as well as the GPS. I didn

Re: Howto hide keyboard (Was: Re: minimo (browser on freerunner))

Hi Arne, Everyone, I'm having a hard time implementing what's described here. This is from my terminal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# matchbox-panel-2 --start-applets systray,startup --end-applets ** (matchbox-panel-2:1878): WARNING **: Missing argument for --end-applets I tried entering it a couple of

Re: Any update on Windows connectivity yet?

tuck in windoze-ville) On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Vinc, > > Don't tell me your a Windoze Weeniee! Say it isn't so! > > hehe!! > > Scott > > Vinc Duran wrote: > > I'm interested too. I'd b

Re: In the press

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Curtis Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:47:51 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: > > > Jay Vaughan wrote: > >>> This stood out for me "The tangled pile of mostly outdated and > >>> incomplete documentation at the OpenMoko wiki..." Is this an

Re: Any update on Windows connectivity yet?

I'm interested too. I'd be willing to help test windows apps or tools for openmoko. Vinc On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:32 PM, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One of my bulk order buyers has prompted a question about whether there > have been any advances with connecting a Freerunner to a Win

Re: Information about mailinglist merge

I think this is a good move. On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 7:26 PM, Sean Moss-Pultz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 7/14/08 Maximilian Bauer wrote: > > the mailinglist device-owners will change its name to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] from this point on we will deactivate > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and .com. pleas

Re: SanDisk micro SDHC 8GB card under testing

Wow. Thanks to everyone for testing and posting your results! On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:38 AM, André Gaul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey, > > I've got my 8 GB SanDisk microSD SDHC and my mass-production Freerunner > yesterday. Works like a charm (damn, I didn't know these cards are that > smal

Re: In the press

I think it's accurate. On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Matt Joyce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I found this yesterday, thought it was quite an ok article. > http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/open-moko-software.ars > > This stood out for me "*The tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete

Re: Found it.(GSM antenna port)

Wow. Perfect then. You might have to find the alternative back but that should be possible. My coworker says, "burn a little hole in the back you have with a hot soldering iron". He likes those straightforward hardware mods. I'd be looking for a different back myself. :-) On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 9:

Re: USB keyboard (was Re: Posible Bluetooth Keyboard)

That ASUS model seems to come with a mini USB already. No adapters. On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Erland Lewin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I googled and found this: > > > http://pc.pcconnection.com/1/1/44869-asus-computer-international-r2h-slim-usb-2-0-foldable-keyboard-04gngv1kus00.html > >

Re: anyone know when the phones are actually shipping within the US?

I got a nice mail from openmoko: Our warehouse in Fremont, CA will be back to work on Monday (7/7) and start shipping process. Your order number should be ready to ship by Tuesday. Thanks. My order number is 1562. If I read a lot into the email I might conclude order counts. I asked about tracki

Re: HP calculator on neo1973 - was: More HW from Openmoko

This reminds me of the excellent HP emulator for Palms http://www.mobilevoodoo.com/power48.htm. Very fun. On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 5:15 AM, Rodolphe Ortalo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Indeed, very nice work. Please, do try to offer a bitbake recipe or > standalone easy to use package. > Btw, are t

Re: freerunner shipment confirmation?

Hi Jayesh, I ordered a ten pack yesterday and received a confirmation email from [EMAIL PROTECTED] about 90 minutes later. On 7/4/08, Jayesh Salvi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I bought freerunner few hours ago from the online shop. The transaction went > through after at least 3 different

Re: Bluetooth Headset compatible to Freerunner?

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:11 AM, kenneth marken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 01 July 2008 07:09:06 Vinc Duran wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Kyle Gordon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > On Monday 30 June 2008 14:10:2

Re: Inter-Freerunner Connectivity

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Tilman Baumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jay Vaughan wrote: > >> Sounds cool. Something completely new or something based on csound, > >> supercollider or similar? > > > > > > Something new, but supercollider and puredata on the Freerunner will > > work, I imag

Re: Bluetooth Headset compatible to Freerunner?

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Kyle Gordon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Monday 30 June 2008 14:10:23 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Hey guys, >> >> I've a questition and I hope that someone could help me: >> I'm searching for a bluetooth headset with 2 ears and 1 mic that I can >> connect to the

Re: Slashdot post but no web store?

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Crane, Matthew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/25/1751228&from=rss > > nerdyH writes "Openmoko has begun shipping its Linux-based, open source Neo > Freerunner phone to five newly announced distributors, in Germany, Fra

Re: AT&T SIM problems

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Daniel Dadap <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I have noticed that > there seem to be issues with AT&T SIM cards and the Neo1973. > (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666) > > Have they been r

Re: upgrade memory card

Wow. Very cool information. Thank you all. On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Mikko Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ti, 2008-06-24 kello 17:02 -0400, Nicholas Dube kirjoitti: >> Will the FR be able to support 16GB SDHC microSD cards? > > If it supports SDHC (and I hear it does) it supports at l

Re: Vote! Zimbra Mobile on the Openmoko

Joseph, My company uses Exchange servers. Is Zimbra a client that would work with existing Exchange infrastructure or does it replace the Exchange? Thanks, V On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Joseph Reeves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Wish there was a way to vote on this URL of yours without ha

upgrade memory card

Hello, I have a question about the miniSD card in the FreeRunner. If I want to install a larger card at some point is it any easier to already have the new card in hand before I even turn on the FR and just install it when I get the FR? I'm wondering if the card comes blank or does it have importan

Re: warranty for 10 pack purchases

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:02 PM, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i've seen this question come up a couple of times on the list, but > it's not been answered fully: > > if we buy a 10-pack of freerunners, i assume they will come with a > warranty. how do we as individuals deal with warran

Re: Why not use forum?

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:46 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Friday 13 June 2008 00:55:34 arne anka wrote: > > > No, thanks. If I have to check a particular webpage, or even many of > > > them, > > > periodically to see if someone wrote something new, I'll give up > quickly. > > > > well, i've

Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

News Flash! The US doesn't always make sense. I'm a United Statesian. I've lived around and worked with Europeans for years and I'm always agreeing that what we have doesn't seem sensible or doesn't appear thought out. It's very screwy. It just is. :-) On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Joe Pfeiffer

Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

The local t-mobile store occasionally has a no extra charge (free I suppose) quad band world phone from Motorola. I was thinking of getting that as a spare. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:44 AM, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ian douglas writes: > >Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > >> when I went to ge

Re: Shipping details

Heterogeneous 10 packs? Do you know yet if I can buy 9 US phones and 1 EU phone in a single 10 pack? Thanks, Vinc On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 6:33 AM, Joachim Steiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Simon Matthews wrote: > > What courier companies/the postal service and shipping options (express > > vers

Re: GTA03 case should incorporate stylus holder

*In theory*, a manufacturer could make replacement, er... *upgrade*, cases, built to take some off the shelf stylus such as those found in some other device, like a Palm for instance. On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:32 PM, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I see the whole 'stylus holder' as a sim

Boulder Colorado group sale

Hello, If you're in the Boulder, Colorado area consider joining our group. We're up to five buyers. We may join forces with Tuscon, AZ. Please contact me or add your name to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Boulder. I can make the purchase and do local delivery. Vinc ___

Re: Private data protection.

This is more what I was thinking. Most folks have a trusted system, some where with remote access. At work, a friends', perhaps someplace akin to google docs. You find a computer and send your phone the wipe code. Or the lock up tight and phone home code, or even the delete the private stuff, act l

Re: What will be shipped with FreeRunner?

And should we really expect those expensive looking laser styli? Styluses... On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Alexander Frøyseth < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello > What is going to be shipped with the FreeRunner, in single and 10 packs > Are the headset in the box? > > Alexander Frøyseth > > __

Re: Private data protection.

I have a friend who lost his iPhone and was very upset that AT&T couldn't remotely wipe it for him... (Not that they ever said they could). On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]&g

Re: Private data protection.

You could make it longer too. I mean you could require receiving multiple sms's. It could be a very long key. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Vinc Duran w

Re: Private data protection.

I like the stolen phone sms message. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 3:13 AM, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Christoph Fink > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ilja O. wrote: > >> > >> 1) Auth using PIN number (this requires encrypted image presence in > >> phone file

Re: Neo as cellular modem?

This is all encouraging. Even dial up (telephone modem) speed would have been good today. I could have gotten more work done today while waiting for the cable guy. I'm looking forward to trying this. Thanks On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Matt Mets <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It should be no pr

Neo as cellular modem?

Hi, I'm was sitting in my workshop with the cable modem out and the local wireless not working correctly and so no internet access today, wondering if we can expect to use the FreeRunner/Openmoko as a cellular modem at any point. I haven't seen much mention of this. Any ideas? Thanks, Vinc

Re: Car Mode Application...

I'm not completely certain but I don't think TangoGPS does routing. I think Navit was written with cars in mind. TangoGPS will keep track of your friends. On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Kosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That looks nice, but what about the TangoGPS? > > Marcus? It's been a while

Re: Car Mode Application...

Sounds like something I'd enjoy too! Someone, somewhere in openmoko world wrote something about this and suggested using a bluetooth headset for instructions receiving instructions from the gps. This could be a good alternative. Vinc On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Staley, Daniel L <[EMAIL PROTEC

Re: Video of production device?

Thank you very much Philipp. That's just what I was hoping for. Vinc On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 6:47 AM, Philipp Hannasky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Vinc Duran schrieb: >> >> Hello, >> I'm going to be very demanding again :-) >> Is there video of the pr

Re: Video of production device?

quot;Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Vinc Duran wrote: >>> >>> Is there video of the production FreeRunner in use? I found >>> http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi posted by Kevin >>> Dean on May 19th. Is

Video of production device?

Hello, I'm going to be very demanding again :-) Is there video of the production FreeRunner in use? I found http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi posted by Kevin Dean on May 19th. Is that video of shipping software or just a concept video? It would be great if Ian or someone with a

Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started

at 6:30 PM, clare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Thu, 22 May 2008, Vinc Duran wrote: > > Federico, can you send me a URL where I can learn more about Funamble? >> Google searches haven't found me much. >> Thanks >> >> On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 1:24 PM, F

Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started

Federico, can you send me a URL where I can learn more about Funamble? Google searches haven't found me much. Thanks On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Federico Lorenzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Funamble connecter springs to mind. Its free too. > > On 5/22/08, thomasg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Re: My Openmoko blog is aimed at helping Freerunner users get started

Wow. I had no idea Qtopia could sync with Outlook. That's going to make my life much easier. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 12:45 PM, Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 20 May 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Michael Shiloh wrote: > > > I've just posted about the software update that

Re: Wireless Cracking / Hacking on the FreeRunner

I'm sure I read in another post (or the wiki) that WPA was working at least. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Brandon Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a number of programs that I use, and some that I wrote, for > professional security pen testing (with permission). > > I was thinking of m

Re: IAX2/Asterisk + Openmoko FreeRunner

Thanks Brian, That sounds very cool. I was wondering how that would work. I'm very excited to see how it all works out. V On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Brandon Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Vinc Duran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>

Re: IAX2/Asterisk + Openmoko FreeRunner

Hi Brandon, I'm an end-user for the most part. Do you think you can get the freerunner to emulate a common ip phone? I'm imagining using it with TalkSwitch or any general ip based system. Thanks On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Brandon Kruse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey Guys, > > Just want to

Re: Funny Dialer

It reminded me of the mood music in Quake III. :-) On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What is that noise in the background? Do you do your programming in a > haunted house? It's freakin me out... > > -Steven > > On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 12:44 PM, <[EMAIL PROT

Re: Dash GPS personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API

Hi Ron, Is the Dash in the blog the same as the Dash Express on the dash.net site? Vinc On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Ron K. Jeffries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dash GPS personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API > > It's sorta funny, but nobody here says a word about Dash, > the Freerun

Boulder Colorado group sale

Hello, I'd like to get a group sale going for Boulder, Colorado. Please contact me or add your name to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales#Boulder. I can make the purchase and do local delivery. Vinc ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lis

Re: yet another question about group sales (re: group goodies)

I don't know your answers but I thought it was 10 pack (like order=10 rather than order=>10). On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 10:41 PM, nickd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I apologise if this has been asked before, but my Google-fu fails me and I > can't search the lists properly, *so*... > > I know that i