On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Robert Jasiek wrote:
> On 04.01.2011 00:30, Erik van der Werf wrote:
>>
>> The word 'almost' to me suggests that you would know for sure that
>> there exists an exception.
>
> So far you have given only heuristics hoping that your long cycles would
be
> detected som
On 04.01.2011 00:30, Erik van der Werf wrote:
The word 'almost' to me suggests that you would know for sure that
there exists an exception.
So far you have given only heuristics hoping that your long cycles would
be detected somehow without comparing the positions. ALA you do not give
a gener
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Robert Jasiek wrote:
> On 03.01.2011 13:44, Erik van der Werf wrote:
>>
>> This is handled trivially by observing that one sided passes/captures
>> more in each cycle.
>
> How do you distinguish that from the opposing program passing as a tactical
> mistake (or as a
On 03.01.2011 13:44, Erik van der Werf wrote:
This is handled trivially by observing that one sided passes/captures
more in each cycle.
How do you distinguish that from the opposing program passing as a
tactical mistake (or as a "psychological" trick)?
> can work out the details.
Easy: "alm
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Robert Jasiek wrote:
> On 03.01.2011 12:33, Erik van der Werf wrote:
"Under Japanese style ko rules, the long-term history is never needed
to infer the best move".
>>>
>>> Do you mean long>2 or long>cycle_length?
>>
>> Roughly speaking 'long>2'; to be
On 03.01.2011 12:33, Erik van der Werf wrote:
"Under Japanese style ko rules, the long-term history is never needed
to infer the best move".
Do you mean long>2 or long>cycle_length?
Roughly speaking 'long>2'; to be more precise these are the extra
state properties I typically use in my solver:
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Robert Jasiek wrote:
> On 03.01.2011 12:11, Erik van der Werf wrote:
>>
>> "Under Japanese style ko rules, the long-term history is never needed
>> to infer the best move".
>
> Do you mean long>2 or long>cycle_length?
Roughly speaking 'long>2'; to be more precise
On 03.01.2011 12:11, Erik van der Werf wrote:
"Under Japanese style ko rules, the long-term history is never needed
to infer the best move".
Do you mean long>2 or long>cycle_length?
--
robert jasiek
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Hi Robert,
Perhaps my answer was a bit cryptic. I'll try to explain.
In a computer go program it is indeed needed to detect cycles when you
want to claim, for example, a tie or no-result. So you're right about
that.
However, to evaluate a position and infer the best move it is
generally not need
On 02.01.2011 22:04, Erik van der Werf wrote:
to 'not return a result' you don't need the history.
How? A cycle is a presupposition for the result No Result (or long cycle
tie). (Of course, hashing by numbers of stones on the board or Cycle
Law's prisoner difference etc. may often be sufficie
On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Robert Jasiek wrote:
> On 02.01.2011 18:26, Olivier Teytaud wrote:
>>
>> In japanese rules, there's only the ko to be kept in the state space.
>
> How then, under Japanese style rules, do you detect an occurrence of a long
> cycle for the sake of applying the no res
>
>
> How then, under Japanese style rules, do you detect an occurrence of a long
> cycle for the sake of applying the no result rule(s)?
>
>
Maybe I don't know exactly the rules :-) I believed that the game can
cycle and we just stop if both players agree for stopping.
If the rules state that in
On 02.01.2011 18:26, Olivier Teytaud wrote:
In japanese rules, there's only the ko to be kept in the state space.
How then, under Japanese style rules, do you detect an occurrence of a
long cycle for the sake of applying the no result rule(s)?
--
robert jasiek
___
> When searching for start-of-the-art of Computer Go for my thesis, I
> discovered a very interesting paper "Combinatorics of Go" by John Tromp and
> Gunnar Farneback. I wonder if it is the same John Tromp that played with
> Many Faces. If I understand correctly, they computed the State-space
> com
On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 8:19 PM, P Shotwell wrote:
> Happy New Year to all
> Just a note: As a go historian, I interviewed John and summarized his
> findings along with my other articles that have short interviews with
> Olivier, Remi and Dave at www.usgo.org/bobhighlibrary.
> Peter Shotwell
Nice
I confess I did not think of the existence of correlations. I simply
thought 1.2% was quite low,
wondered how that could be, and marvelled at how close this simple
calculation came to
that result. My feathers may deserve some ruffling - but I remain
obstinately mellow! Anyway,
fwiw, it was my
Happy New Year to all
Just a note: As a go historian, I interviewed John and summarized his
findings along with my other articles that have short interviews with
Olivier, Remi and Dave at www.usgo.org/bobhighlibrary.
Peter Shotwell
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Computer-go mailing
I think you have perhaps misunderstood. As I read it, Arthur was refering to
his own analytic result (1.232) as being "on the high side", not John's
result in the paper. Arthur is implicitly assuming that John's number is
correct (which I think we all are), and then rationalising what the
discr
Hi Alvaro,
I think you have perhaps misunderstood. As I read it, Arthur was
refering to his own analytic result (1.232) as being "on the high side",
not John's result in the paper. Arthur is implicitly assuming that
John's number is correct (which I think we all are), and then
rationalising w
It is really an interesting paper. I will try to understand its proof or
write a program to verify it.
Aja
- Original Message -
From: ""Ingo Althöfer"" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Combina
On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Robert Jasiek wrote:
> On 01.01.2011 15:08, Álvaro Begué wrote:
>> If you don't trust John's numbers
>
> It is not about trust but about taking time for understanding his proofs.
But you certainly can take the time to write the program I suggested...
_
On 01.01.2011 15:08, Álvaro Begué wrote:
> If you don't trust John's numbers
It is not about trust but about taking time for understanding his proofs.
--
robert jasiek
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The people that think the number is low or high have bad intuitions,
that's all. Writing a program that generates random configurations and
checks whether they are valid is fairly trivial. If you don't trust
John's numbers, that's what you can do.
Alvaro.
On Saturday, January 1, 2011, Kahn Jonas
Intriguing!
A position is obviously illegal if any point is occupied by a stone
surrounded by opposite-colour stones.
At the 4 corners, 25 out of 27 combinations will be legal. The proportion
(25/27)^4 will survive.
At the 68 edges, 79 out of 81: (79/81)^68 will survive.
At the 289 interior po
Intriguing!
A position is obviously illegal if any point is occupied by a stone
surrounded by opposite-colour stones.
At the 4 corners, 25 out of 27 combinations will be legal. The
proportion (25/27)^4 will survive.
At the 68 edges, 79 out of 81: (79/81)^68 will survive.
At the 289 interior
I haven't read the paper myself, but from a Wikipedia page that
references the paper: "Tromp and Farnebäck show that on a 19×19 board,
about 1.2% of board positions are legal (no stones without liberties
exist on the board) .As the board gets larger, the percentage of the
positions that is
mputer-go@dvandva.org
> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Combinatorics of Go
> Definitely the same John Tromp.
>
> --Bob Solovay
>
> On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Aja wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > When searching for start-of-the-art of Computer Go for my thesis, I
> >
At 01:09 AM 1/1/2011, you wrote:
... If I understand correctly, they computed the
State-space complexity of 19x19 Go to be
2.08168199382· 10^170, which is really a big number.
3^(19*19)=1.740896506590319E172 is all
combinations of black, white and vacant
intersections on a 19 by 19 board. bu
Definitely the same John Tromp.
--Bob Solovay
On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Aja wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> When searching for start-of-the-art of Computer Go for my thesis, I
> discovered a very interesting paper "Combinatorics of Go" by John Tromp and
> Gunnar Farneback. I wonder if it is the sam
Dear all,
When searching for start-of-the-art of Computer Go for my thesis, I discovered
a very interesting paper "Combinatorics of Go" by John Tromp and Gunnar
Farneback. I wonder if it is the same John Tromp that played with Many Faces.
If I understand correctly, they computed the State-space
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