There are 16 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Elomi and Ilomi
From: Anthony Miles
1b. Re: Elomi and Ilomi
From: Larry Sulky
2a. Tonogenesis
From: Anthony Miles
2b. Re: Tonogenesis
From: Alex Fink
3a. Re: Klingon Opera
From: Daniel Nielsen
3b. Re: Klingon Opera
From: Garth Wallace
3c. Re: Klingon Opera
From: Lee
3d. Re: Klingon Opera
From: David Peterson
4a. Happy St. Hiledgard's Day
From: Donald Boozer
4b. Re: Happy St. Hiledgard's Day
From: David Peterson
4c. Re: Happy St. Hiledgard's Day
From: Jim Henry
5a. Re: Happy St Hildegard's Day
From: Roman Rausch
5b. Re: Happy St Hildegard's Day
From: Herman Miller
5c. Re: Happy St Hildegard's Day
From: Donald Boozer
6. Pitch-based self-segregating morphology
From: maikxlx
7a. Re: New book
From: Eric Christopherson
Messages
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1a. Re: Elomi and Ilomi
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" mamercu...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:41 am ((PDT))
I've been thinking about Ilomi. Perhaps I could use it for a translation
exercise,
with your permission?
Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: Elomi and Ilomi
Posted by: "Larry Sulky" larrysu...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:58 pm ((PDT))
Absolutely. Or even without. --L
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Anthony Miles <mamercu...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I've been thinking about Ilomi. Perhaps I could use it for a translation
> exercise,
> with your permission?
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Tonogenesis
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" mamercu...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:03 am ((PDT))
"-0; -?:-s; -t"?
I guess I need to work on the tonogenesis part of my GMP for Lim1guam1
La2ti2nam1 (and change its name). The current system I have is:
aL > a1
a? > a2
as > a3
at > a4
aN > a~1
Possible new GMP for the tonogenesis (using /a/ as a sample vowel
a1 < a0
a2 < a? < a?V
a3 < as
a4 < at
a~1 > am
Would this work better? What about ar, al?
Messages in this topic (18)
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2b. Re: Tonogenesis
Posted by: "Alex Fink" 000...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:42 am ((PDT))
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:54:20 -0400, Anthony Miles <mamercu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"-0; -?:-s; -t"?
>I guess I need to work on the tonogenesis part of my GMP for Lim1guam1
>La2ti2nam1 (and change its name). The current system I have is:
>aL > a1
>a? > a2
>as > a3
>at > a4
>aN > a~1
>
>Possible new GMP for the tonogenesis (using /a/ as a sample vowel
>a1 < a0
>a2 < a? < a?V
>a3 < as
>a4 < at
>a~1 > am
I guess since I prompted this I should answer. Your initial suite of
changes actually looks more or less sensible; your proposed revision isn't
very different.
The main thing that wasn't obvious is what L is and where the ?s are coming
from. I think I see now that it's supposed to be _syllable length_, which I
missed before. And that's good; syllable length is a fine progenitor of
tone. And I see what was up with the resonant situation now: it's not the
resonants causing tone shift, it's just the length they engender. I suppose
the intermediates would have to be slightly different, unless you really
wanted to glottalise every short syllable, which is something that seems
unlikely.
I would opine, though, that a polysyllabic language developing contour tones
on each syllable feels unstable; I'd expect the tones to quickly smear out
over the word. In the languages I can think of with rich contour-tone
systems, either stems are monosyllabic (or nearly so, like the East Asian
sesquisyllabic type, with no or reduced tonal contrasts on the
sesquisyllable), or else contours only appear on bimoraic vowels and are
sequences of phonemic level tones. Ket (one of my favourite examples) has
four registers (= tone-phonation complexes) on monosyllables, two special
tone patterns for disyllables, but on longer words the whole system just
collapses to pitch accent.
Alex
Messages in this topic (18)
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3a. Re: Klingon Opera
Posted by: "Daniel Nielsen" niel...@uah.edu
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:45 am ((PDT))
I think John Chalmers mentioned it, but good to see another report (and your
art project) :)
Dan
Messages in this topic (5)
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3b. Re: Klingon Opera
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" gwa...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:49 am ((PDT))
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 6:15 AM, John Lategan <jla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hallo everyone.
>
> I havn't seen it mentioned here on the list, and there are a few Dutch
> people here... so I'll mention it
> An Opera in Klingon in the Hague! (BTW, the article is in English)
>
> http://culmaer.blogspot.com/2010/09/dahjaj-oh-qaq-jaj-vad-bires.html
> (the article is ón my new blog :Þ)
>
> It is a bit old (from 11 Sept), but I only read it on the 15th.
>
> [The Article is from the 11 Sept issue of the "Weekend Argus," a newspaper
> in Cape Town, RSA. If I'm plagerising, please let me know before anything
> happens. If I'm not referencing the source correctly, also tell me please.]
>From the title, I was expecting this to be about Magma. ;)
Messages in this topic (5)
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3c. Re: Klingon Opera
Posted by: "Lee" waywardwre...@yahoo.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:30 am ((PDT))
"Today is a good day for opera" LOL
Looking forward to reading more of your blog's posts.
Lee
--- On Fri, 9/17/10, John Lategan <jla...@gmail.com> wrote:
From: John Lategan <jla...@gmail.com>
Subject: Klingon Opera
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 8:15 AM
Hallo everyone.
I havn't seen it mentioned here on the list, and there are a few Dutch
people here... so I'll mention it
An Opera in Klingon in the Hague! (BTW, the article is in English)
http://culmaer.blogspot.com/2010/09/dahjaj-oh-qaq-jaj-vad-bires.html
(the article is ón my new blog :Þ)
It is a bit old (from 11 Sept), but I only read it on the 15th.
[The Article is from the 11 Sept issue of the "Weekend Argus," a newspaper
in Cape Town, RSA. If I'm plagerising, please let me know before anything
happens. If I'm not referencing the source correctly, also tell me please.]
JOHN LATEGAN
There will be more stuff on my blog - as well as stuff relating to my
conlang: Culmærian! (eventually.)
You may follow it *hint*.
Messages in this topic (5)
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3d. Re: Klingon Opera
Posted by: "David Peterson" deda...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:24 pm ((PDT))
On Sep 17, 2010, at 6â15 AM, John Lategan wrote:
> JOHN LATEGAN
> There will be more stuff on my blog - as well as stuff relating to my
> conlang: Culmærian! (eventually.)
> You may follow it *hint*.
Are you interested in adding your blog to the conlang blog
aggregator?
http://aggregator.conlang.org/
Only caveat is that the feed you give us has to be conlang-only
(no OT posts).
-David
*******************************************************************
"A male love inevivi i'ala'i oku i ue pokulu'ume o heki a."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
-Jim Morrison
http://dedalvs.com/
LCS Member Since 2007
http://conlang.org/
Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Happy St. Hiledgard's Day
Posted by: "Donald Boozer" donaldboo...@yahoo.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:36 pm ((PDT))
Today is the Feast Day of St. Hildegard of Bingen Day .... the unofficial saint
of conlanging. I'm planning on writing a Conlanging Librarian blog post
proposing Sept. 17 as a kind of conlanging holiday analogous to St. Patrick's
Day and Valentine's Day, but I wanted to wish everyone a Happy St. Hilde's Day
before it came to an end.
Have a chorzta* St. Hilde's Day!
(*"Sparkling"...the only festive Lingua Ignota word I could find in a pinch)
Stay tuned for the blog entry....
Don
Twitter: @FiatLingua
http://library.conlang.org
Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Happy St. Hiledgard's Day
Posted by: "David Peterson" deda...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:39 pm ((PDT))
On Sep 17, 2010, at 1â31 PM, Donald Boozer wrote:
> Today is the Feast Day of St. Hildegard of Bingen Day .... the unofficial
> saint
> of conlanging. I'm planning on writing a Conlanging Librarian blog post
> proposing Sept. 17 as a kind of conlanging holiday analogous to St. Patrick's
> Day and Valentine's Day, but I wanted to wish everyone a Happy St. Hilde's
> Day
> before it came to an end.
So, should we do anything special on St. Hildegard's Day? Coffee and grammar's
a good start. But shouldn't we participate in rampant commercialism somehow, so
that in years to come, we can say, "St. Hildegard's Day used to be about the
conlanging!"
-David
*******************************************************************
"Sunlü eleÅ¡karez ügrallerüf üjjixelye ye oxömeyze."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
-Jim Morrison
http://dedalvs.com/
LCS Member Since 2007
http://conlang.org/
Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: Happy St. Hiledgard's Day
Posted by: "Jim Henry" jimhenry1...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:54 pm ((PDT))
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:36 PM, David Peterson <deda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 1â31 PM, Donald Boozer wrote:
>
>> Today is the Feast Day of St. Hildegard of Bingen Day .... the unofficial
>> saint
>> of conlanging. I'm planning on writing a Conlanging Librarian blog post
> So, should we do anything special on St. Hildegard's Day?
Last year about this time I wrote a prayer for the intercession of St.
Hildegard, in gjâ-zym-byn, on the pattern of the other saint's-day
prayers in the Liturgy of the Hours; but I mislaid it somewhere before
I got around to transcribing it. I'd need to do it over.
> Coffee and grammar's
> a good start. But shouldn't we participate in rampant commercialism somehow,
> so
> that in years to come, we can say, "St. Hildegard's Day used to be about the
> conlanging!"
Well, we could buy or (attempt to) sell conlang-related stuff. I'm
sure Sally and her publisher would be happy if we all went out and
bought a copy of her book on St. Hildegard and her Lingua Ignota, for
ourselves or a library we're fond of, and there are other
conlang-related books out there that probably not all of us already
own yet (most recently Israel Noletto's; congratulations!).
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Happy St Hildegard's Day
Posted by: "Roman Rausch" ara...@mail.ru
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:24 pm ((PDT))
>At the moment there's a movie showing in the Netherlands about Hildegard von
>Bingen (
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_-_From_the_Life_of_Hildegard_von_Bingen).
>It should première in the US in October. Has anyone in Europe seen it
>already?
I have seen it today in German. Well, it's an interesting historical film
about a very judicious person within a medieval and Catholic mentality,
ending on a very optimistic note.
As one would expect it, there is no mention of the Lingua Ignota, although
at least plenty of Latin is recited.
There is actually a scene where a disciple nun, Richardis, corrects the last
word of '[omnia quae facta sunt] velut umbra in me fuerunt' to 'fuit' (the
bracketed part isn't actually pronounced in the film, I googled the phrase).
I thought using singular verbs with neuter plural words was a Greek thing?
>I'm planning on writing a Conlanging Librarian blog post
>proposing Sept. 17 as a kind of conlanging holiday analogous to St. Patrick's
>Day and Valentine's Day
Any chance for the International Talk Like a Pirate Day (which is September
19th) also to gain popularity? It could be the conlanger's Golden Week. :-)
Messages in this topic (8)
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5b. Re: Happy St Hildegard's Day
Posted by: "Herman Miller" hmil...@io.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:11 pm ((PDT))
M.S. Soderquist wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Bleackley"
> <peter.bleack...@rd.bbc.co.uk>
> To: <conl...@listserv.brown.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 4:38 AM
> Subject: Happy St Hildegard's Day
>
>
>> Today is the feast day of St Hildegard of Bingen, the first known
>> conlanger.
>>
>> Pete
>
> I think I am going to put this on my calendar as a personal holiday. Now
> I just have to invent some activities to become my holiday traditions.
> Alas, strangely colored beer and public drunkeness have already been
> taken by St. Patrick.
>
> Perhaps it is a good day to drink too much coffee and stay up thinking
> of new words and grammar.
>
> Mia.
Sounds like a great idea, but I'm a tea drinker, so I'll make a slight
substitution for coffee. Maybe this would be a good day to wrap up some
loose ends in my Minza vocabulary revision that I've been working on.
And don't forget she wrote music also! I think I've got a CD of her
music around somewhere.
Messages in this topic (8)
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5c. Re: Happy St Hildegard's Day
Posted by: "Donald Boozer" donaldboo...@yahoo.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:19 pm ((PDT))
As promised, here is the full blog post outlining the rationale for St.
Hildegard's Day:
http://library.conlang.org/blog/?p=381
Enjoy!
Don
Twitter: @FiatLingua
Conlanger's Library: http://library.conlang.org
Messages in this topic (8)
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6. Pitch-based self-segregating morphology
Posted by: "maikxlx" maik...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:00 pm ((PDT))
Inspired by the recent "Possibly the simplest possible self-segregating
morphology" thread, I would like to share a simple SSM that I came up with
and use in my main (loglang) project:
- Every vowel segment takes one of two pitches, low or high.
- Every morpheme ends in a low-pitched vowel; every low-pitched vowel ends a
morpheme.
- All the consonants and high-pitched vowels preceding a low-pitched vowel
are part of that morpheme ended by that vowel.
For example, short words like <a> or <te> are pronounced low pitched and
long words like <nordamerika> are pronounced entirely high pitched
except for the final vowel. Morphemes can range freely in size from "a" to
"nordamerika" and beyond, and foreign words can be borrowed relatively
faithfully, except that sometimes a vowel will be appended. Of course,
function/closed-class words tend to be short words and root/open-class words
long.
My guess is that high-pitch and low-pitch would end up being distributed
roughly equally; there can be strings of low pitched syllables and strings
of high pitched syllables; there can also be patches of iambs, but there
will never be confusion on morpheme boundaries.
What's possibly weird is that this SSM relies on two distinct types of
pitch steps within root morphemes: An upstep at the before the root and a
downstep near the end. I don't know if any natural language acts quite
like this.
Comments are welcome.
Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: New book
Posted by: "Eric Christopherson" ra...@charter.net
Date: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:04 pm ((PDT))
On Sep 16, 2010, at 4:33 AM, Paul Bennett wrote:
> The book lists all the phonemes (or reconstructed-probable-phoneme symbols
> such as hâ, Ä, or Ñ) found in everything from PIE down to the major
> living modern IE languages, in an order largely inspired by Pullum's
> "Phonetic Symbol Guide".
Does Ä appear in PIE in some form?
Messages in this topic (9)
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