There are 2 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VI: Negation and Polar Questions From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets 1b. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VI: Negation and Polar Questions From: Eugene Oh Messages ________________________________________________________________________ 1a. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VI: Negation and Polar Questions Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" tsela...@gmail.com Date: Thu Feb 9, 2012 12:55 am ((PST)) 2012/2/9 Eugene Oh <un.do...@gmail.com> > Like the multiple types of negatives a lot. The topic is one of my > favourites to play around with, for exactly the multiple shades of > negativity there are that you mention. > > Yeah, it's also one of my favourite topic, ever since I discovered that affirmation and negation needn't be symmetrical (I think it was when I first discovered Arabic). > Arithide has 3 varieties of negation, though less clearly marked than > Moten. All three varieties are marked by the descendants of the negative > particle in Old Arithide, "ava". > > 1) Narrow negation > The negation attaches itself purely to the end of the inflected verb (-va) > and negates only that inflected verb. The action implied by the verb has > not happened. Eg, vaksa "she has gone" > vaksava "she has not gone". > > 2) Broad negation > The negation attaches itself to the head of the stem of the verb (av-, > af-, au-), effectively becoming a new verb that is semantically opposite to > the original. The absence/non-occurrence of the action implied by the verb > is the current state. Eg, vaksa > avvaksa "she has taken the course of > not-going". How are those two different in actual sentences? Or is this prefix also used for semantic opposites like come/go or give/take? > This semantic negation is also applicable to adjectives and adverbs, but > means, like English "not/non-" and Moten "mu", simply "alternative to": > mārai "far" > aumārai "non-far". > > Yeah, my first insight into the complexity of negation was when I realised words like "not" didn't always mean "opposite of", but could simply mean "other than". It broadened the scope of negation for me. > 3) Negative imperatives > Negative imperatives can be expressed via tacking the imperative ending > onto the semantically negated verb, eg vagē "go!" > avvagē "don't go!". > Alternatively a periphrasis can be employed, namely "mēra + imperfective", > eg mēra vagēn, "don't go!" > > Moten is a bit boring in that respect: the imperative is formed using the stem of the verb without any affix, and the negative imperative is simply formed by adding _mu_ to that. E.g.: _ag_: "go!" > _mu ag_: "don't go!" (literally "do something else than going!"). I wish it'd been a bit more original, but unfortunately Moten doesn't work like that. I guess one could also use the infinitive followed by _memun_: "none" and a shouting intonation to mean the same thing. E.g.: _jagi memun!_: "no going!", but that would be rather informal, something a parent would say to a child, as in English ("no running around behind my back!"). -- Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets. http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/ http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/ Messages in this topic (4) ________________________________________________________________________ 1b. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VI: Negation and Polar Questions Posted by: "Eugene Oh" un.do...@gmail.com Date: Thu Feb 9, 2012 5:38 am ((PST)) On 9 Feb 2012, at 08:54, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <tsela...@gmail.com> wrote: >> 2) Broad negation >> The negation attaches itself to the head of the stem of the verb (av-, >> af-, au-), effectively becoming a new verb that is semantically opposite to >> the original. The absence/non-occurrence of the action implied by the verb >> is the current state. Eg, vaksa > avvaksa "she has taken the course of >> not-going". > > > How are those two different in actual sentences? Or is this prefix also > used for semantic opposites like come/go or give/take? > Not for semantic opposites. Eg, raen�ltaiva "you cannot choose" vs. auraen�ltai "you can not-choose" -�ltai is the potential suffix. There are probably better examples than this, but I'm not thinking of them right now! > >> This semantic negation is also applicable to adjectives and adverbs, but >> means, like English "not/non-" and Moten "mu", simply "alternative to": >> m�grai "far" > aum�grai "non-far". >> >> > Yeah, my first insight into the complexity of negation was when I realised > words like "not" didn't always mean "opposite of", but could simply mean > "other than". It broadened the scope of negation for me. > > >> 3) Negative imperatives >> Negative imperatives can be expressed via tacking the imperative ending >> onto the semantically negated verb, eg vag�l "go!" > avvag�l "don't go!". >> Alternatively a periphrasis can be employed, namely "m�lra + imperfective", >> eg m�lra vag�ln, "don't go!" >> >> > Moten is a bit boring in that respect: the imperative is formed using the > stem of the verb without any affix, and the negative imperative is simply > formed by adding _mu_ to that. E.g.: _ag_: "go!" > _mu ag_: "don't go!" > (literally "do something else than going!"). I wish it'd been a bit more > original, but unfortunately Moten doesn't work like that. I guess one could > also use the infinitive followed by _memun_: "none" and a shouting > intonation to mean the same thing. E.g.: _jagi memun!_: "no going!", but > that would be rather informal, something a parent would say to a child, as > in English ("no running around behind my back!"). > > -- > Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets. > > http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/ > http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/ Messages in this topic (4) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/ <*> Your email settings: Digest Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/join (Yahoo! 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