There are 14 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Music and conlanging
From: Allison Swenson
1b. Re: Music and conlanging
From: Toms Deimonds Barvidis
2a. Focus & Spatial Deixis
From: Zach Wellstood
2b. Re: Focus & Spatial Deixis
From: Randy Frueh
2c. Re: Focus & Spatial Deixis
From: David McCann
2d. Re: Focus & Spatial Deixis
From: Zach Wellstood
2e. Numbers from your conlang?
From: janko gorenc
3a. Need Greetings for Conlangery
From: George Corley
3b. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
From: Dustfinger Batailleur
3c. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
From: George Corley
3d. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
From: Dustfinger Batailleur
3e. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
From: Fenhl
3f. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
From: George Corley
4a. Re: Music and conlanging, WAS Re: [CONLANG] OT: Help: Music composit
From: David McCann
Messages
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1a. Re: Music and conlanging
Posted by: "Allison Swenson" jlon...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:02 pm ((PDT))
Ah, I'm a Minecrafter and programmer as well! I just might agree with your
creation-with-rules idea.
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- On Fri, 7/27/12, Toms Deimonds Barvidis <emopun...@inbox.lv> wrote:
>
> > >> How many of use played with LEGO when they were younger? I did - a
> > >> lot!
>
> I did (a lot as well). I think it's definitely a highly creative toy. Way
> beyond plain blocks or other modeling toys that impose pretty strict
> limitations on creativity.
>
> > > I never had any LEGOs, but I'm a huge fan of Minecraft,
> > > and I like programming as well as composing music (and conlanging of
> > > course). All are hobbies where one follows a fairly strict set of
> > > rules to create something unique.
> >
> > As for LEGOs and composing, I used to do the first and still
> > occasionally do the second,
>
> Some combine the two. Or at least, combining lego and music:
>
> http://www.henrylim.org/Harpsichord.html
>
> > sometimes composing songs with lyrics in my conlangs.
>
> Do you also construct the music? I.e., is the music itself from *here*
> or from *elsewhere*?
>
> Padraic
>
> > Toms Deimonds Barvidis.
>
>
Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: Music and conlanging
Posted by: "Toms Deimonds Barvidis" emopun...@inbox.lv
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:58 am ((PDT))
Citējot "Padraic Brown" <elemti...@yahoo.com>:
> --- On Fri, 7/27/12, Toms Deimonds Barvidis <emopun...@inbox.lv> wrote:
>
>>>> How many of use played with LEGO when they were younger? I did - a
>>>> lot!
>
> I did (a lot as well). I think it's definitely a highly creative toy. Way
> beyond plain blocks or other modeling toys that impose pretty strict
> limitations on creativity.
>
>>> I never had any LEGOs, but I'm a huge fan of Minecraft,
>>> and I like programming as well as composing music (and conlanging of
>>> course). All are hobbies where one follows a fairly strict set of
>>> rules to create something unique.
>>
>> As for LEGOs and composing, I used to do the first and still
>> occasionally do the second,
>
> Some combine the two. Or at least, combining lego and music:
>
> http://www.henrylim.org/Harpsichord.html
>
>> sometimes composing songs with lyrics in my conlangs.
>
> Do you also construct the music? I.e., is the music itself from *here*
> or from *elsewhere*?
It's as far from *here* as a piano piece gets. Okay, I'm joking, the harmonies
aren't anything new to our world, but
they're all definitely made by me, so you can say they are indeed from
somewhere else.
Toms Deimonds Barvidis.
> Padraic
>
Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Focus & Spatial Deixis
Posted by: "Zach Wellstood" zwellst...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:02 pm ((PDT))
In łaá siri, transitive verbs conjugate based on the A/P's spatial deixis
relative to the speaker. There are five degrees: immediate, near, distal,
absent, and abstract. I felt like, since no other natlang does this to my
knowledge, I ought to brainstorm how this conjugation would affect
semantics on a more metaphorical level, since the deixes are pretty
relative. There's no clear line between when something is immed./near/dist.
I came up with the idea that this feature can also be used to shift the
focus in a discourse to highlight new info or make old info appear less
pertinent to the conversation. I was hoping I could get feedback on it. I'm
not very familiar with focus, so I read a bit and was using English's the/a
as a base model and went up from there, trying to avoid a carbon copy.
I'll start with one sentence.
łi'ir lara salar-layaa łu-'aa-saliy-á.
HON. Lara fruit-INAN. IMMED.-IMMED.-eat.EVID
Lara (right here) is eating the fruit (right here).
This introduces Lara (A) and a fruit (P). The conjugation doesn't *need* to
use two deixes of the same level (immed./immed.), it could use a different
combination (e.g., immed./near).
The next sentence:
łi'ir [lara]* łi-ri-sir.
HON. [Lara] IMMED.-NEAR-like
Lara (right here) didn't like [the fruit](right there).
* Can be left out.
The A/P remain the same, and there is no change in the location of the
fruit (P, -ri-). If anything it's the same distance as before since it's
inside of Lara (presumably). The choice not to use the IMMED. deixis
"demotes" the fruit's importance to the statement, while bringing emphasis
to Lara. Now if we introduce a new piece of info...
suri salar-layaa łi'ir sayuu tłasa tła-tła-tłar-a.
3SG.SUBJ. fruit-INAN. HON. Sayuu POST. DIST.-IMMED.-give.EVID.
She (over there) gave the *fruit* (right here) to *Sayuu*.
The asterisks indicate where stress would be placed.
Now the focus is brought on the fruit. A more accurate translation to show
implication would be, "She gave *that fruit that she didn't like* to
Sayuu!"
I probably needs more work done to it, but I did spend a large amount of
time to accomplish this. Any thoughts (good/bad) on the process or on focus
in general?
Typically proximities nearer to the speaker take precedence over others.
Immediate > Near > Distal...
Zach
Please excuse typos, I actually did write this all on my phone!
Messages in this topic (5)
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2b. Re: Focus & Spatial Deixis
Posted by: "Randy Frueh" cthefox...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:50 pm ((PDT))
I'm certainly not a linguistics expert. But I like the idea (maybe because
it's something not done in my mother language) It would be useful to
underscore importance of an data point in debate or hypothetical
discussion. If I understand your idea correctly.
Aside: Being on this list presents me with too many good ideas. It's hard
to keep from tinkering Arkani into a kitchen-sink-lang.
We do what we must, because we can.
Messages in this topic (5)
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2c. Re: Focus & Spatial Deixis
Posted by: "David McCann" da...@polymathy.plus.com
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:50 am ((PDT))
On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 01:02:34 -0400
Zach Wellstood <zwellst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In łaá siri, transitive verbs conjugate based on the A/P's spatial
> deixis relative to the speaker. There are five degrees: immediate,
> near, distal, absent, and abstract.
> I'll start with one sentence.
> łi'ir lara salar-layaa łu-'aa-saliy-á.
> HON. Lara fruit-INAN. IMMED.-IMMED.-eat.EVID
> Lara (right here) is eating the fruit (right here).
I presume IMMED and NEAR are used for 3rd person participants, with the
1st (obviously IMMED) and 2nd (NEAR) marked for person instead? This
would be like inflecting the verb for the gender of the participant. It
would also be easy to explain diachronically: the markers are
gramaticalised pronouns, and those for the third person started as a
more complex set of demonstratives than "here, there, yonder".
> The next sentence:
> łi'ir [lara]* łi-ri-sir.
> HON. [Lara] IMMED.-NEAR-like
> Lara (right here) didn't like [the fruit](right there).
> * Can be left out.
>
> The A/P remain the same, and there is no change in the location of the
> fruit (P, -ri-). If anything it's the same distance as before since
> it's inside of Lara (presumably). The choice not to use the IMMED.
> deixis "demotes" the fruit's importance to the statement, while
> bringing emphasis to Lara.
A classic case of a feature that started with one function being
utilised for something quite different. I like it!
It reminded me of the unusual employment of "come" and "go" in English,
where "move to/from the place of the speaker" has become "move to/from
the place that's important in the discourse", so we say "I'm coming"
where most other languages say "I'm going."
Messages in this topic (5)
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2d. Re: Focus & Spatial Deixis
Posted by: "Zach Wellstood" zwellst...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:10 am ((PDT))
>
>
> I presume IMMED and NEAR are used for 3rd person participants, with the
> 1st (obviously IMMED) and 2nd (NEAR) marked for person instead? This
> would be like inflecting the verb for the gender of the participant. It
> would also be easy to explain diachronically: the markers are
> gramaticalised pronouns, and those for the third person started as a
> more complex set of demonstratives than "here, there, yonder".
>
>
Actually, you've intuited it almost correctly. However, there's no discrete
conjugation for person-marking, but 1st person arguments are treated as
IMMED. and 2nd person behave as any other (NEAR, DIST., etc.) This actually
evolved from an earlier system I developed when I tried to make łaá siri a
language sans pronouns (IMMED. = 1st, NEAR = 2nd, DIST = 3rd), but then
decided that wasn't working a revamped it into the current one.
> A classic case of a feature that started with one function being
> utilised for something quite different. I like it!
That's good to hear, thanks! :)
>
> It reminded me of the unusual employment of "come" and "go" in English,
> where "move to/from the place of the speaker" has become "move to/from
> the place that's important in the discourse", so we say "I'm coming"
> where most other languages say "I'm going."
I have never noticed/thought of that! Good point.
Zach
Messages in this topic (5)
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2e. Numbers from your conlang?
Posted by: "janko gorenc" j_gor...@yahoo.com
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:42 am ((PDT))
Hi Randy,
My name is Janko. I'm collecting numbers from various systems in different
languages.
Please you tell me if you'll have numbers from your conlang(s) in future.
Could you please send me numbers from 1 to 10 (as in English: 1 - one, 2 - two,
3 - three,... )?
You can found information about my self and my work on:
http://jankogorenc.cwnc.net/?page_id=4
http://janko.gorenc.googlepages.com/home
Thank you for your help!
I wish you a lot of success at your work!
Janko Gorenc
Messages in this topic (5)
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3a. Need Greetings for Conlangery
Posted by: "George Corley" gacor...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:20 am ((PDT))
So, I'm looking at editing a show and I realize I don't have a single
top-of-show greeting in the Conlangery gmail. I thought I'd put the call
out here since I haven't asked this particular community before. As it
reads on the Contribute page of our site ( http://conlangery.com/contribute/
):
"To have your language featured at the top of the show, just translate the
line *"Welcome to Conlangery, the podcast about constructed languages and
the people who create them."* into your conlang and record an audio file
(MP3), then send that as an attachment to conlang...@gmail.com with the
word "Greeting" in the subject line. Send it in all your conlangs if you
want -- we're always running short. Also, if your native language is
something other than English, you can contribute a translation into that as
well."
(Interestingly, the only natlang submission we've had so far is German.)
Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
Posted by: "Dustfinger Batailleur" dustfinge...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:29 am ((PDT))
What exactly is "Conlangery"? The community of conlangers, a group of
conlangs, the abstract idea of creating a language, or what?
On 28 July 2012 10:20, George Corley <gacor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, I'm looking at editing a show and I realize I don't have a single
> top-of-show greeting in the Conlangery gmail. I thought I'd put the call
> out here since I haven't asked this particular community before. As it
> reads on the Contribute page of our site (
> http://conlangery.com/contribute/
> ):
>
> "To have your language featured at the top of the show, just translate the
> line *"Welcome to Conlangery, the podcast about constructed languages and
> the people who create them."* into your conlang and record an audio file
> (MP3), then send that as an attachment to conlang...@gmail.com with the
> word "Greeting" in the subject line. Send it in all your conlangs if you
> want -- we're always running short. Also, if your native language is
> something other than English, you can contribute a translation into that as
> well."
>
> (Interestingly, the only natlang submission we've had so far is German.)
>
Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
Posted by: "George Corley" gacor...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:45 am ((PDT))
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Dustfinger Batailleur <
dustfinge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What exactly is "Conlangery"? The community of conlangers, a group of
> conlangs, the abstract idea of creating a language, or what?
A podcast which talks about linguistic features and creative process
decisions from a conlanging perspective, along with featuring conlangs.
www.conlangery.com
Messages in this topic (6)
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3d. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
Posted by: "Dustfinger Batailleur" dustfinge...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:47 am ((PDT))
No, I meant the word "Conlangery" itself.
On 28 July 2012 10:45, George Corley <gacor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Dustfinger Batailleur <
> dustfinge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What exactly is "Conlangery"? The community of conlangers, a group of
> > conlangs, the abstract idea of creating a language, or what?
>
>
> A podcast which talks about linguistic features and creative process
> decisions from a conlanging perspective, along with featuring conlangs.
> www.conlangery.com
>
Messages in this topic (6)
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3e. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
Posted by: "Fenhl" fe...@fenhl.net
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:48 am ((PDT))
On 2012-7-28 14:47, Dustfinger Batailleur <dustfinge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No, I meant the word "Conlangery" itself.
I think it's a noun for the art of conlanging.
Messages in this topic (6)
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3f. Re: Need Greetings for Conlangery
Posted by: "George Corley" gacor...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:49 am ((PDT))
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Dustfinger Batailleur <
dustfinge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No, I meant the word "Conlangery" itself.
Oh, of course. Honestly, I stole that word from the forum titles at the
ZBB. I think at one point we figured it could be analyzed as "conlang +
-ery", which would mean something like "the art and practice of
conlanging". You can, of course, derive the word however you like.
Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Music and conlanging, WAS Re: [CONLANG] OT: Help: Music composit
Posted by: "David McCann" da...@polymathy.plus.com
Date: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:28 am ((PDT))
On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 19:55:14 -0400
Charles W Brickner <tepeyach...@embarqmail.com> wrote:
> Legos? You're so young! :-) I am of the generation of tinker toys,
> lincoln logs and erector sets!
I had to look those up; for me it was Bayko, Meccano, and Brickplayer.
Conglanging set in at the age of 13, if I remember correctly.
Messages in this topic (11)
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