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There are 10 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Possible base-20 numeric system
From: Danny Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: Possible base-20 numeric system
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Re: Anybody on AIM
From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: Information on future English language development?
From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: Possible base-20 numeric system
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. Re: Question about word-initial velar nasal
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10. Re: Possible base-20 numeric system
From: Rene Uittenbogaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 06:42:28 -0500
From: Danny Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Possible base-20 numeric system
From: "Simon Richard Clarkstone"
> No, wrong, you have a bizarre dual-base system. Each of the quoted
> should be 20 more than its predecessor. In the next "place", each would
> be 20*20=400 more than its predecessor.
> Also, you must (well, should) only have one name for each integer, but
> you have:
> ketīs-tis = koltīs (assuming hyphens add the two numbers)
Dual-base systems are bizarre? Systems using 20x5 are not that uncommon;
Welsh, Danish, French (for 60 and 80) and Georgian are just a few that do
such.
And what about Sumerian and Akkadian? Base 60 is inevitably dual-base, since
you can't square an integer and get 60.
I want something that's insanely mixed-base, using 10, 12, 20 or 60
depending on whatever.
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:17:08 +0200
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian
+ALQ-=======================================+AGA-
+AHw- THIS MAIL IS IN UTF-7 BECAUSE OF SUCH +AHw-
+AHw- FANCY LETTERS LIKE N-ACUTE +AHw-
+AGA-=======================================+ALQ-
Hello!
I'm back from the holidays since yesterday.
One evening, I thought of vocabulary for Ayeri and root
words. Why did ol' Tolkien AFAIK give C-C-C roots for his
Elvish langs, although none of them was (also AFAIK)
Semitic style?
And, as for roots, I came up with some words for my naming
language project +AF8-Ambrian+AF8- and gave it some roots from
scratch. It's awweesome what can be done with roots. You
can put pretty much work into a language that way, and are
able to create new words basing on a root's meaning quite
easily.
==========[ BEGIN: AMBRIAN WORDS ]===========
(after Jeffrey Henning's essay on naming languages)
chief tindo
fortunate arnin
industrious ne+APA-in
mighty kap+APA-ar
powerful pha+AUQ-in [faNgin]
ready entae [EntAi)]
strong-willed tibin (cf. +ACo-tin, strong(-willed))
wealthy vea+APA-i [vE+AEA-)Di] (English bias?!)
beloved +AP4-ti
compassionate kegrin
passion kirin
noble sani
prayerful +AP4-o+APA-in (cf. tindo)
blessed inhae+APA- [INgAi)T]
desired tji (cf. +ACo-tin)
small bha+AUQ- [vaN]
victorious niebhi (cf. tindo)
brave tibin (cf. +ACo-tin)
manly modi+APA-
==========[ END: AMBRIAN WORDS ]===========
Sofa,
Carsten
--
Eri silvev+AOE-ng aibannama padangin.
Nivaie evaenain eri ming silvoiev+AOE-ng caparei.
- Antoine de Saint-Exup+AOk-ry, Le Petit Prince
-> http://www.beckerscarsten.de/?conlang=ayeri
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:20:47 +0200
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Possible base-20 numeric system
Quoting Danny Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> From: "Simon Richard Clarkstone"
>
> > No, wrong, you have a bizarre dual-base system. Each of the quoted
> > should be 20 more than its predecessor. In the next "place", each would
> > be 20*20=400 more than its predecessor.
> > Also, you must (well, should) only have one name for each integer, but
> > you have:
> > ketīs-tis = koltīs (assuming hyphens add the two numbers)
>
> Dual-base systems are bizarre? Systems using 20x5 are not that uncommon;
> Welsh, Danish, French (for 60 and 80) and Georgian are just a few that do
> such.
>
> And what about Sumerian and Akkadian? Base 60 is inevitably dual-base, since
> you can't square an integer and get 60.
Eh? How is it any more inevitably dual-base than base 10? It's not like there's
an integer that squares to ten either.
Andreas
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 07:23:13 -0500
From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anybody on AIM
Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is anybody on this list also on AIM --
> and in the CET time zone would be nice!
I am, most boringly, none but <trwier> on AIM.
==========================================================================
Thomas Wier "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 07:23:00 -0500
From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Information on future English language development?
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:57:11 +0100, Simon Richard Clarkstone wrote:
> I only agree with you partly there. Due to increased global
> communications, English could also be said to be changing less, as a
> better connected language community makes change of language more
> difficult: a new word will be very unlikely to spread fast enough to
> last long.
Hard to say. It's clear that there are entirely localized sound-changes
going on in some English-speaking countries which appear not even to be
spreading beyond the home region in which they arose, e.g. the Northern
Cities Shift in the US, or the "bruvver"-dialects in Great Britain. Such
kinds of changes could ultimately lead to the breakup of colloquial speech,
while the acrolect is perpetuated by the education system, leading to
Swiss-style diglossia.
(Other changes certainly are spreading. I seem to be hearing more
and more Northerners in Chicago use "y'all" for the second person plural,
and some young people from New York say they also use it. It is conceivable
at such a rate of spread that in 100-150 years or so, most of North America
will have adopted it, thence perhaps to other countries.)
==========================================================================
Thomas Wier "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:36:57 +0200
From: Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian
Quoting Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> +ALQ-=======================================+AGA-
> +AHw- THIS MAIL IS IN UTF-7 BECAUSE OF SUCH +AHw-
> +AHw- FANCY LETTERS LIKE N-ACUTE +AHw-
> +AGA-=======================================+ALQ-
>
>
> Hello!
>
> I'm back from the holidays since yesterday.
> One evening, I thought of vocabulary for Ayeri and root
> words. Why did ol' Tolkien AFAIK give C-C-C roots for his
> Elvish langs, although none of them was (also AFAIK)
> Semitic style?
I'm not sure what you're refering to. Most attested Quendian roots are of the
shape CVC; other's include CCVC, VC and CV, but the only consonant-only one
seems to be the pronominal root *S.
There are instances when the stem vowel (_sundķma_) displaced from it's normal
position, as in _alcar__<*_ak'lar-_, from *KALA, but this is no more "Semitic"
than is vowels jumping around in IE ablaut patterns.
JRRT's Dwarvish _is_ "Semitic", however.
Andreas
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:41:39 -0400
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tolkien's rootwords / Progress of Ambrian
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:36:57 +0200, Andreas Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm not sure what you're refering to. Most attested Quendian roots are of the
>shape CVC; other's include CCVC, VC and CV, but the only consonant-only one
>seems to be the pronominal root *S.
Maybe it's just my bad memory then. I thought that I've seen somewhere roots
given as, say, QBV or so. Maybe it was Dwarfish, so then forget about what I
wrote.
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:19:40 +0200
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Possible base-20 numeric system
Hi!
Trebor Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Basic roots:
>
> nol: zero
>...
> tistīstīs: two hundred
> ...
Good! :-)
> How do you think I should combine to form higher numbers?
Well, if you want a system similar to decimal in English, decide how
many digits would make a 'paket', say n, and then have words for
20^1 -> 20
20^2 -> 400
...
20^n -> if n = 3 (as in English), that'd be it, namely: 8000
Then 20^n would correspond to the 'packet' number 1000 in English.
And then have larger numbers 20^(n*k) for k=1,... (in English: a
thousand, a million, a billion, etc.)
Say, n=3, then:
20^(3*1) = 8000 (corresponds to 1000 in English decimal system)
20^(3*2) = 64000000 (corresponds to 1000000 in English decimal system)
...
Chinese, Japanese, Korean (and others) have decimal with n=4. There
are also natlangs that have n=2.
As an option, don't be so regular, e.g. compare the Hindi system of
numbers >= 100, it's quite interesting as the packets are sometimes
n=2 and sometimes n=3.
My conlangs Tyl Sjok and Qeng|ai have n=1, but it's a bit more
complicated than that, since the base may be 2, 8, 10, and 16 (and in
principle, anything between 2 and 16), and the exponents may be in
exponential form as well.
**Henrik
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:34:09 +0200
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question about word-initial velar nasal
Hi!
Danny Wier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>...
> I also want to say Inuktitut too, but I can't remember! I studied this
> language a wee bit not too long ago....
>...
No, at least not Kalaallisut (West-Greenlandic).
Initially, it only allows vowels (a, i, u (and allophones e and o))
and q, k, p, t, m, n, s.
(And l, r, v in very, very few (foreign) words, my dictionary lists 7
words with l, 2 with r and 8 with v).
**Henrik
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:08:24 +0200
From: Rene Uittenbogaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Possible base-20 numeric system
Trebor Jung wrote:
> üstistīs: one hundred and one
1+10*10, right?
> üsrastīs: one hundred and eleven
1+11*10
Nice :) I like languages with numbers in "little-endian" notation (least
significant part first). "Five and forty".
Simon Richard Clarkstone wrote:
> for complicated numbers:
> köttīstīstīs-naetīstīs-đahtīs-nel
> = _19_9_16_4 = _19_0_0_0 + _9_0_0 + _16_0 + _4
> = 19*20*20*20
> + 9*20*20
> + 16*20
> + 4
> = 155924
I'd use nel-đahtīs-naetīstīs-köttīstīstīs. As a matter of fact, I think
that'll be the way Eyahwánsi will handle numbers.
René
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