There are 17 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Need help with phonetics/phonology at CALS
From: David Peterson
2a. Re: USAGE: how did English initial <x> come to be /z/?
From: R A Brown
2b. Re: USAGE: how did English initial <x> come to be /z/?
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
2c. Re: USAGE: how did English initial <x> come to be /z/?
From: Peter Bleackley
2d. Re: USAGE: how did English initial <x> come to be /z/?
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
3a. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
From: Andreas Johansson
3b. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
3c. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
From: Lars Finsen
3d. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
From: Andreas Johansson
3e. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
From: Lars Finsen
3f. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
From: Lee
3g. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
From: Lee
3h. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
From: Lars Finsen
4.1. Re: The 2010 Smiley Award Winner: amman iar
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
4.2. Re: The 2010 Smiley Award Winner: amman iar
From: Sai Emrys
4.3. Re: The 2010 Smiley Award Winner: amman iar
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
5. Luggnaggian
From: Peter Bleackley
Messages
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1a. Re: Need help with phonetics/phonology at CALS
Posted by: "David Peterson" deda...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Sep 6, 2010 11:39 pm ((PDT))
On Sep 5, 2010, at 9◊35 AM, taliesin the storyteller wrote:
> When this is done, x-sampa, cxs and whatever can be somewhat easily
> added with the help of an IPA-to-whatever converter, and when that is
> done there is a point to connecting the sounds to the conlangs.
So how close are we to the final step?
-David
*******************************************************************
"A male love inevivi i'ala'i oku i ue pokulu'ume o heki a."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
-Jim Morrison
http://dedalvs.com/
LCS Member Since 2007
http://conlang.org/
Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. Re: USAGE: how did English initial <x> come to be /z/?
Posted by: "R A Brown" r...@carolandray.plus.com
Date: Mon Sep 6, 2010 11:43 pm ((PDT))
On 07/09/2010 05:33, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> On Sep 6, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Alex Fink wrote:
>
>> Just as it says on the tin: I've just realised I have
>> no idea how the English rule that initial<x-> is /z-/
>> might've come about.
>
> I asked about that a while back, but I've looked
> everywhere and can't find it. I think Ray responded, but
> I don't remember exactly what he said; I think part of it
> was that it was pronounced /gz/ initially for a while.
Yes, this has been discussed before and I did say that way
back in the 1950s our Classics master always pronounced
initial ξ (xi) in Greek as /gz/. A little investigation
shows that this was the earlier custom.
Also one of our francophone list members - IIRC it was
Christophe - pointed out that initial <x> in Greek loan
words is still pronounced /gz/ in French.
>>
>> There's nothing about /ks-/ motivating voicing; for
>> that matter, Greek had initial /ps-/ too, and we're
>> perfectly happy to leave that voiceless in borrowings.
D'oh - that, methinks, has a lot to do with <p> = /p/ :)
Medial <ps> is _never_ voiced; on the other hand medial <x>
from words of Latin origin is often voiced, e.g. _exam_,
_exist_ etc.
Obviously, at an earlier time initial <ps> was /ps/, then
when the /p/ fell silent, of course we were left with just
/s/; and the Greek ψ (psi) was always pronounced /ps/ in
English pronunciations of ancient Greek.
>> There's no earlier-established context I can think of
>> in which <x> can be /z/ that it might have spread
>> from;<x> can be /gz/ intervocalically in Latinate
>> words, but is that really enough?
Yes, because the Romans always transcribed Greek ξ as <x>
and, therefore, it became the habit to voice Greek ξ in
similar situations in English pronunciations of ancient Greek.
If Claudius' attempt to add ɔ to the Roman alphabet to
represent [ps] (<-- /ps/ and /bs/), then it's very likely
that intervocalic ɔ would have become voiced in Latinate
borrowings and Greek ψ might well have suffered a similar
fate. But Claudius' alphabet reforms did not survive his
reign and ψ was spared :)
>> I thought it might
>> have something to do with the initial loans passing
>> through German, where of course original initial *s-
>> has become /z-/ and the pairing<s-> /z-/ is productive,
Nope.
>> but as far as I can make out (correct me,
>> German-speakers) initial<x-> borrowings get /ks-/
>> there...
Correct. Look not to Germany for English initial <x>, but to
France where it's /gz/. We simply drop the /g/ ;)
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigene Kosten denkt,
wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun."
[J.G. Hamann, 1760]
"A mind that thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language".
Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: USAGE: how did English initial <x> come to be /z/?
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" tsela...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 12:32 am ((PDT))
On 7 September 2010 08:34, R A Brown <r...@carolandray.plus.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, this has been discussed before and I did say that way back in the
> 1950s our Classics master always pronounced initial ξ (xi) in Greek as /gz/.
> A little investigation shows that this was the earlier custom.
>
> Also one of our francophone list members - IIRC it was Christophe - pointed
> out that initial <x> in Greek loan words is still pronounced /gz/ in French.
>
>
Indeed, although it's not only in Greek loanwords. The given name Xavier
(related to Spanish Javier), for instance, actually comes from Basque
(Etxeberri, the name of a village in Navarre meaning "new house" -a common
toponym becoming personal name, think about Italian Casanova-), yet it is
pronounced with an initial /gz/ (probably a reading pronunciation).
<x> is a tricky letter in French :) .
>
> Medial <ps> is _never_ voiced; on the other hand medial <x> from words of
> Latin origin is often voiced, e.g. _exam_, _exist_ etc.
>
>
Same in French, except in some names like _Bruxelles_ (where it can be
pronounced /ks/ or /s/ depending on the person). In French, as in English
AFAIK, the voiceless /ks/ is forced by adding a <c> after the <x>, as in
"exciter".
> Correct. Look not to Germany for English initial <x>, but to France where
> it's /gz/. We simply drop the /g/ ;)
>
>
Indeed :) .
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: USAGE: how did English initial <x> come to be /z/?
Posted by: "Peter Bleackley" peter.bleack...@rd.bbc.co.uk
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 1:55 am ((PDT))
staving Alex Fink:
> Just as it says on the tin: I've just realised I have no idea how the
> English rule that initial<x-> is /z-/ might've come about.
>
> There's nothing about /ks-/ motivating voicing; for that matter, Greek had
> initial /ps-/ too, and we're perfectly happy to leave that voiceless in
> borrowings. There's no earlier-established context I can think of in which
> <x> can be /z/ that it might have spread from;<x> can be /gz/
> intervocalically in Latinate words, but is that really enough? I thought it
> might have something to do with the initial loans passing through German,
> where of course original initial *s- has become /z-/ and the pairing<s->
> /z-/ is productive, but as far as I can make out (correct me,
> German-speakers) initial<x-> borrowings get /ks-/ there...
>
> Alex
Initial <x> is only found in loanwords or learned coinings in English.
Neither /ks/ nor /gz/ is permissible word initially in English
phonotactics. I imagine that the rule is that impermissible initial
clusters simplify to their last element, and that <x> is interpreted as
/gz/, simplifying to [z], because of the following vowel.
Note that French seems to be more tolerant of odd initial clusters in
Greek borrowings (eg /psikOloZi:/). How is "xylophone" pronounced in French?
Pete
Messages in this topic (6)
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2d. Re: USAGE: how did English initial <x> come to be /z/?
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" tsela...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 2:44 am ((PDT))
On 7 September 2010 10:52, Peter Bleackley <peter.bleack...@rd.bbc.co.uk>wrote:
> Initial <x> is only found in loanwords or learned coinings in English.
> Neither /ks/ nor /gz/ is permissible word initially in English phonotactics.
> I imagine that the rule is that impermissible initial clusters simplify to
> their last element, and that <x> is interpreted as /gz/, simplifying to [z],
> because of the following vowel.
>
> Note that French seems to be more tolerant of odd initial clusters in Greek
> borrowings (eg /psikOloZi:/). How is "xylophone" pronounced in French?
>
>
/ɡziloˈfon/, with voiced /gz/, as is usual with initial <x>.
In French, <x> can represent:
- /ks/ in front of a consonant, and sometimes at the end of a word
("phoenix"),
- /gz/ word-initially and between vowels (but there are a few exceptions),
- /s/ in the words "dix": ten and "six": six (and in some pronunciations of
"Bruxelles"),
- /z/ in the words "dixième": tenth and "sixième": sixth,
- silent (with a /z/ in liaison) at the end of many words, especially when
it marks a plural (mostly for nouns endings in -au, -eu, -ou, -eau).
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
Posted by: "Andreas Johansson" andre...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 1:19 am ((PDT))
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 11:55 PM, David Peterson <deda...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Having said all that, if there were to be some LCC in Atlanta, and
> we did get a campsite and people were going, well...I mean, I'd
> go where the people go (people are fun). I'd just bring a bunch
> of wetnaps. And a towel. And a cooler full of gatorade and sandwiches.
> And maybe a car to sleep in...
I don't understand the last one - few things could be less comfortable
to sleep in than a car. Yet, you're far from the only person I've
heard claiming to prefer it, or even actually chosing it, over a nice
tent complete with mattresses. Is it just the feeling of
"civlization"?
--
Andreas Johansson
Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
Messages in this topic (21)
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3b. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" tsela...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 1:38 am ((PDT))
On 7 September 2010 09:57, Andreas Johansson <andre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 11:55 PM, David Peterson <deda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> > Having said all that, if there were to be some LCC in Atlanta, and
> > we did get a campsite and people were going, well...I mean, I'd
> > go where the people go (people are fun). I'd just bring a bunch
> > of wetnaps. And a towel. And a cooler full of gatorade and sandwiches.
> > And maybe a car to sleep in...
>
> I don't understand the last one - few things could be less comfortable
> to sleep in than a car. Yet, you're far from the only person I've
> heard claiming to prefer it, or even actually chosing it, over a nice
> tent complete with mattresses. Is it just the feeling of
> "civlization"?
>
>
No, it's the feeling of having an actual roof above your head, rather than a
fragile -and moving- layer of fabric.
I personally may be able to survive camping if I can sleep in a caravan or a
camper. But only the very luxurious ones with lots of space and personal
toilet and shower. But what's the point? I hate everything about camping,
the very idea makes my skin crawl...
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (21)
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3c. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
Posted by: "Lars Finsen" lars.fin...@ortygia.no
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 2:45 am ((PDT))
Andreas Johansson wrote:
> quoting David Peterson <deda...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Having said all that, if there were to be some LCC in Atlanta, and
>> we did get a campsite and people were going, well...I mean, I'd
>> go where the people go (people are fun). I'd just bring a bunch
>> of wetnaps. And a towel. And a cooler full of gatorade and
>> sandwiches.
>> And maybe a car to sleep in...
>
> I don't understand the last one - few things could be less comfortable
> to sleep in than a car. Yet, you're far from the only person I've
> heard claiming to prefer it, or even actually chosing it, over a nice
> tent complete with mattresses. Is it just the feeling of
> "civlization"?
Who needs a tent? Who needs mattresses? Some pine branches or a good
patch of moss make fine mattresses. I have often slept under the open
sky. Tents tend to make me claustrophobic, I like to be able to see
what goes on around me. Of course, in places like California, it
tends to be dark during the nights.
LEF
Messages in this topic (21)
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3d. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
Posted by: "Andreas Johansson" andre...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 2:54 am ((PDT))
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Lars Finsen <lars.fin...@ortygia.no> wrote:
> Andreas Johansson wrote:
>
>> quoting David Peterson <deda...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Having said all that, if there were to be some LCC in Atlanta, and
>>> we did get a campsite and people were going, well...I mean, I'd
>>> go where the people go (people are fun). I'd just bring a bunch
>>> of wetnaps. And a towel. And a cooler full of gatorade and sandwiches.
>>> And maybe a car to sleep in...
>>
>> I don't understand the last one - few things could be less comfortable
>> to sleep in than a car. Yet, you're far from the only person I've
>> heard claiming to prefer it, or even actually chosing it, over a nice
>> tent complete with mattresses. Is it just the feeling of
>> "civlization"?
>
> Who needs a tent? Who needs mattresses?
No-one needs anything. But a mattress in a tent is a higher degree of
comfort than a car.
> Some pine branches or a good patch
> of moss make fine mattresses. I have often slept under the open sky. Tents
> tend to make me claustrophobic, I like to be able to see what goes on around
> me.
Whereas I find it difficult to sleep if it's not dark around me.
> Of course, in places like California, it tends to be dark during the
> nights.
That's a feature!
--
Andreas Johansson
Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
Messages in this topic (21)
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3e. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
Posted by: "Lars Finsen" lars.fin...@ortygia.no
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 5:47 am ((PDT))
Andreas Johansson wrote:
> quoting me:
>
>> Some pine branches or a good patch of moss make fine mattresses. I
>> have often slept under the open sky. Tents tend to make me
>> claustrophobic, I like to be able to see what goes on around me.
>
> Whereas I find it difficult to sleep if it's not dark around me.
Yes, that's a problem, and increasing with age. But a reasonably
thick towel can be good enough, and is effective against mosquitoes.
Those things that are handed out in airplanes can help too, maybe.
After all, the nice thing about the outdoors is that it's... outdoors.
Let's see, how to get on-topic after this. Do I have many camping
words in Urianian? There's 'camp' - kebzik, to 'strike camp' - niste.
For 'camping', perhaps nisan, or possibly a loan - camping or kemping.
Kebuz - tent or earthen hut
Galuz - small, one-walled, more or less temporary shelter
Seblebur - sleeping bag
Greglebur - backpack
Bere - campfire
Mel - mosquito
Vezid - walk, hike
Sentid - wander, hike
Ged - forest, wilderness
Uldu - thicket
Mintu - mountain
Vrizul - treeless highland
Mas - bog
Eje - lake
Bizuk - fish
Tempe - rod
Mak - mushroom
Oje - frying pan
Tunuz - pleasant
Semde - enjoy
LEF
Messages in this topic (21)
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3f. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
Posted by: "Lee" waywardwre...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 6:40 am ((PDT))
--- On Tue, 9/7/10, Lars Finsen <lars.fin...@ortygia.no> wrote:
Who needs a tent? ...
- - - -
... he says, as a mosquito the size of an eagle begins feasting upon his
sleeping body...
Lee
Messages in this topic (21)
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3g. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
Posted by: "Lee" waywardwre...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 6:56 am ((PDT))
Don't words for star, moon, satellite, planet, comet, meteor, Milky Way,
galaxy, constellation...
Camping is best when you can look up at a cloudless night sky and see more than
a few dozen stars.
Lee
--- On Tue, 9/7/10, Lars Finsen <lars.fin...@ortygia.no> wrote:
From: Lars Finsen <lars.fin...@ortygia.no>
Subject: Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 7:14 AM
Andreas Johansson wrote:
> quoting me:
>
>> Some pine branches or a good patch of moss make fine mattresses. I have
>> often slept under the open sky. Tents tend to make me claustrophobic, I like
>> to be able to see what goes on around me.
>
> Whereas I find it difficult to sleep if it's not dark around me.
Yes, that's a problem, and increasing with age. But a reasonably thick towel
can be good enough, and is effective against mosquitoes. Those things that are
handed out in airplanes can help too, maybe.
After all, the nice thing about the outdoors is that it's... outdoors.
Let's see, how to get on-topic after this. Do I have many camping words in
Urianian? There's 'camp' - kebzik, to 'strike camp' - niste. For 'camping',
perhaps nisan, or possibly a loan - camping or kemping.
Kebuz - tent or earthen hut
Galuz - small, one-walled, more or less temporary shelter
Seblebur - sleeping bag
Greglebur - backpack
Bere - campfire
Mel - mosquito
Vezid - walk, hike
Sentid - wander, hike
Ged - forest, wilderness
Uldu - thicket
Mintu - mountain
Vrizul - treeless highland
Mas - bog
Eje - lake
Bizuk - fish
Tempe - rod
Mak - mushroom
Oje - frying pan
Tunuz - pleasant
Semde - enjoy
LEF
Messages in this topic (21)
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3h. Re: OT: Conlang Camping Trip (WAS: making an oral conlang)
Posted by: "Lars Finsen" lars.fin...@ortygia.no
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:54 am ((PDT))
Lee wrote:
> quoting me:
>
> Who needs a tent? ...
>
> - - - -
>
> ... he says, as a mosquito the size of an eagle begins feasting
> upon his sleeping body...
Well, you have to wrap something around you at night in these
latitudes, just for the coldness of the night air. Anyhow isn't it
just fair to give something back to nature when you're there to reap
from its riches?
> Don't words for star, moon, satellite, planet, comet, meteor, Milky
> Way, galaxy, constellation...
I have:
Tir - star
Satellit - satellite
Geidiv - planet (lit. shining god)
Komet - comet
Tirgit - meteor (actually a common surname, lit. starfall)
Kulxindu(?) - Milky Way
Galax - galaxy
Gingalt - constellation (lit. heaven figure)
All except the first new coinings today. Not sure about Kulxindu,
though.
BTW, should also mention:
Legun - the starry sky
> Camping is best when you can look up at a cloudless night sky and
> see more than a few dozen stars.
I reckon. Would like to try that some time. But when you can see that
here, it's usually too cold for sleeping outdoors. With the nearest
town 30 km away the starry skies can be pretty even from the
backyard, though.
LEF
Messages in this topic (21)
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4.1. Re: The 2010 Smiley Award Winner: amman iar
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" tsela...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 1:34 am ((PDT))
On 7 September 2010 05:17, Sai Emrys <s...@saizai.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Patrick Michael Niedzielski
> <patrickniedziel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> * creating a nice template for the Fiat Lingua journal (almost done w/
> >> copyedit; this'll be needed very soon)
> > Depending on the software, I can most certainly do this. I'm good with
> > LaTeX, but I can also use Scribus on GNU/Linux.
>
> See below; hopefully you & Christophe can collaborate.
>
>
Could be an idea. I'm good at the technical stuff, but I need someone to
guide me for the aesthetics.
> > Ditto here. I actually proposed my help already via the Fiat Lingua
> e-mail
> > address, but got no reply :(
>
> Yikes, sorry. My fault - I beg off just on having just moved to
> Chicago and the entailed flurry of craziness and exhaustion.
>
>
No problem. I'm well aware of how it can be.
> The spec is here:
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1bbf_VtUETuNX7UDFJDVFAhX-HqVzEIEuB3ISSPK7ebc&authkey=CNu-sM0J&hl=en
>
> I hope that answers your questions.
It mostly does. I guess you don't have strict requirements re. things like
multi-column layout and such...
> I don't know Scribus so can't
> comment if it meets this need, but we'd need some kind of solution
> that's sustainable organizationally - basically, that it should be
> cross-platform and relatively easy (given the template and the article
> contents) to create a new issue.
>
>
Scribus (http://www.scribus.net/) is cross-platform (GNU/Linux, Windows,
MacOSX and even OS/2! It even has a portable Windows version that can run
from a USB stick!), supports colour profiles for monitors and printers,
exports very easily to PDF (version 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5, and even X3, if
your printer requires it!), both meant for screen reading or for printing,
and can import quite a lot of formats (PDF, SVG, images, text files, some
OpenOffice and Office files, but you usually lose the formatting). Given a
good template, creating a new issue should be as easy as copying the text in
the right place (and maybe style it correctly using pre-made styles). AFAIK,
it doesn't work very differently from other DTP applications.
> Don is the main Journal organizer at this point, so please email him
> (or better, publishing-edit...@conlang.org, which'll go to all the
> editors, including both of us) about any day-to-day issues.
>
>
Will do! First, maybe Patrick and I should have a conversation :) .
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (41)
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4.2. Re: The 2010 Smiley Award Winner: amman iar
Posted by: "Sai Emrys" s...@saizai.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:10 am ((PDT))
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
<tsela...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Could be an idea. I'm good at the technical stuff, but I need someone to
> guide me for the aesthetics.
*nod* You might want to read some of Edward Tufte's books. Good
explanation of the design aspects of "aesthetics" that techies can
grok. "Visual display of quantitative information" is probably the
main one.
> It mostly does. I guess you don't have strict requirements re. things like
> multi-column layout and such...
Right.
My guess is that it'd all be single-column aside from sidebars (e.g.
for author bio perhaps, or other margin notes). I don't know for
certain, though; this is one of those things that needs figuring out.
I'll add you two to the google docs so you can try out the importing.
(We also have one article that's in LaTeX which we haven't yet figured
out how to import into GDocs for collaborative editing.
> AFAIK, it doesn't work very differently from other DTP applications.
How does it differ in capability from OpenOffice Writer?
Thanks,
- Sai
Messages in this topic (41)
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4.3. Re: The 2010 Smiley Award Winner: amman iar
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" tsela...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:57 am ((PDT))
On 7 September 2010 16:07, Sai Emrys <s...@saizai.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
> <tsela...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Could be an idea. I'm good at the technical stuff, but I need someone to
> > guide me for the aesthetics.
>
> *nod* You might want to read some of Edward Tufte's books. Good
> explanation of the design aspects of "aesthetics" that techies can
> grok. "Visual display of quantitative information" is probably the
> main one.
>
>
I'll have to check those. So far, I haven't really paid much attention to
getting better artistically because my husband is just so good at it :) .
> > It mostly does. I guess you don't have strict requirements re. things
> like
> > multi-column layout and such...
>
> Right.
>
>
One important requirement though is paper size. Do you plan on having the
journal be printed on Letter, A4, or some other size? :) A DTP program can
do whatever you want (want to print your journal on square paper of 12.3 cm
by 12.3 cm? You can. Want to create a banner 6 feet tall and 10 feet long?
You can. You'll just need to find a printer that can handle it. My husband's
current assignment is to create a 2.5x1.5m banner. No problem with Scribus,
and it will be millimetre perfect :) ).
> My guess is that it'd all be single-column aside from sidebars (e.g.
> for author bio perhaps, or other margin notes). I don't know for
> certain, though; this is one of those things that needs figuring out.
>
>
OK.
> I'll add you two to the google docs so you can try out the importing.
> (We also have one article that's in LaTeX which we haven't yet figured
> out how to import into GDocs for collaborative editing.
>
>
Thanks!
> > AFAIK, it doesn't work very differently from other DTP applications.
>
> How does it differ in capability from OpenOffice Writer?
>
>
The Scribus Wiki has a good page about the differences between desktop
publishing and word processing:
http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/Word_Processing_vs_DTP (there's more out
there just a Google away: it's one of those questions that gets asked again
and again :) ). Basically, word processing is about creating texts, desktop
publishing is about creating layouts. True, modern word processors have some
layout capabilities nowadays, and desktop publishing programs often have
simple word processing capabilities as well, which kind of blurs the border
between the two. But if you want to create text, correct it, set it in
paragraph, edit it, you need a word processor. While if you need
point-perfect alignment between elements, complex layouts and superior
handling of graphics, without things moving around as soon as you add more
to the document, a DTP program is better. DTP programs are also better aware
of printers and monitors than word processors. Colour management is
standard. You can even check that your document uses only colours your
printer is able to reproduce accurately.
But this is very off-topic. Ask me privately if you need more info.
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (41)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
5. Luggnaggian
Posted by: "Peter Bleackley" peter.bleack...@rd.bbc.co.uk
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 2:37 am ((PDT))
Here are two sentences of the Luggnaggian language, from "Gulliver's
Travels" by Jonathan Swift. They are translated for us, but can we
devise glosses for them?
Ickpling Gloffthrob Squutserumm blhiop Mlashnalt Zwin tlodbalkguffh
Slhiophad Gurdlubh Asht.
"May your celestial Majesty out-live the Sun, eleven Moons and an half."
Fluft drin Yalerick Dwuldum prastrad mirplush.
"My Tongue is in the Mouth of my Friend." (ie, "I need an interpreter.")
Pete
Messages in this topic (1)
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