There are 7 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. 30-day conlang: Day Fourteen
From: Gary Shannon
1b. Re: 30-day conlang: Day Fourteen
From: Roger Mills
1c. Re: 30-day conlang: Day Fourteen
From: Gary Shannon
2. origin of evidentials
From: Patrick Dunn
3a. Chinese writing question
From: Peter Bleackley
3b. Re: Chinese writing question
From: Eugene Oh
3c. Re: Chinese writing question
From: Roman Rausch
Messages
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1a. 30-day conlang: Day Fourteen
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" fizi...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:44 pm ((PST))
Over the past thirteen days of translating there have been a lot of
changes in the grammar and I haven't been keeping up with applying
those changes to earlier translations. Today was a clean-up day. I
went back over all the previous thirteen days worth of translations
and interlinears and corrected all the obsolete grammar that was there
due to the changes that have occurred since those translations were
made.
Normal translation will resume tomorrow.
http://fiziwig.com/conlang/thirty_day.html
--gary
Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: 30-day conlang: Day Fourteen
Posted by: "Roger Mills" romi...@yahoo.com
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:13 pm ((PST))
--- On Sun, 11/14/10, Gary Shannon <fizi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Over the past thirteen days of
> translating there have been a lot of
> changes in the grammar and I haven't been keeping up with
> applying
> those changes to earlier translations. Today was a clean-up
> day. I
> went back over all the previous thirteen days worth of
> translations
> and interlinears and corrected all the obsolete grammar
> that was there
> due to the changes that have occurred since those
> translations were
> made.
>
It would have been useful and interesting if you had somehow indicated in the
interlinears where corrections had been made. I'm sure you yourself have a
record somewhere of changes made, though perhaps it's only in your head :-))))
Altogether this is a very interesting project/process.
Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: 30-day conlang: Day Fourteen
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" fizi...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:26 pm ((PST))
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Roger Mills <romi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
> It would have been useful and interesting if you had somehow indicated in the
> interlinears where corrections had been made. I'm sure you yourself have a
> record somewhere of changes made, though perhaps it's only in your head :-))))
>
> Altogether this is a very interesting project/process.
>
I did take a snapshot of the translations and interlinears as they
stood at the end of day nine:
http://fiziwig.com/conlang/day_nine.html
I also have some notes on the changes. I thought after the 30 days is
up I might do a "post mortem" on the project and summarize how the
grammar changed as time when on.
Than you for your comments. I'm glad you find it interesting. I'm
having a lot of fun with it.
--gary
Messages in this topic (3)
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2. origin of evidentials
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" pwd...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:21 pm ((PST))
I want to incorporate evidential particles into my new austronesian-flavored
conlang. I'm thinking of the following:
perceived directly
hearsay or common knowledge
deduced
dreamed or prophesied
unlikely or dubious
possible (although that might be modality -- maybe I should smash the two
together)
Now that I'm trying to attach morphemes to these, I'm wondering where
evidential particles come from in the first place. One possibility is, of
course, a word connected with the source of knowledge. So if "ma'a" is the
word for "eye," perhaps the "perceived directly" morpheme is some (archaic
or obsolete) form of "ma'a." I'm wondering, though, if there are other
origins. A complex mood morphology, it seems to me, could collapse into an
evidential system.
So, my questions are:
1. Anyone have a notion where or why evidential marking arises in a
natlang?
2. From what does such a system evolve diachronically?
3. Is my list of categories of evidentiality realistic? Too long? Missing
something?
4. How does evidentiality work in the first person? My first instinct is
to say that evidentiality isn't marked at all in the first person, only
second and third. Or maybe some particles are ungrammatical in the first
person.
Messages in this topic (1)
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3a. Chinese writing question
Posted by: "Peter Bleackley" peter.bleack...@rd.bbc.co.uk
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:47 am ((PST))
I've got a birdbath at home with Chinese writing on it. I'd like to know
what it says. You can see a picture of it on my blog at
http://fantasticaldevices.wordpress.com/
Pete
Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Chinese writing question
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" un.do...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:12 am ((PST))
It's a little faint and the shadow slightly distracting but it looks like the
characters for tooth and eye respectively. Not sure what that's supposed to
mean. Could be a poetic reference, or the craftsman's pseudonym (or even actual
name, if he's Japanese...)? Do you have a clearer picture?
Eugene
Sent from my iPhone
On 15 Nov 2010, at 10:45, Peter Bleackley <peter.bleack...@rd.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> I've got a birdbath at home with Chinese writing on it. I'd like to know what
> it says. You can see a picture of it on my blog at
> http://fantasticaldevices.wordpress.com/
>
> Pete
Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Chinese writing question
Posted by: "Roman Rausch" ara...@mail.ru
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:53 am ((PST))
> I've got a birdbath at home with Chinese writing on it. I'd like to know
what it says.
The first one must be the character for 'fang', the second one looks like a
somewhat ill-shaped character for 'office, administration'. With the reading
_tsukasa_ the latter can be a first name:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukasa
'Fang' followed by 'mountain' is the surname _kibayama_ or _gayama_, a
dictionary tells me. I guess it could it be the craftsman's abbreviated
name, but I'm by no means an expert.
Messages in this topic (3)
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