There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Adjective Suffixes/Prefixes
From: Alex Fink
2a. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: Shreyas Sampat
2b. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: George Corley
2c. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: MorphemeAddict
2d. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: Michael Everson
2e. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: J. M. DeSantis
2f. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: J. M. DeSantis
2g. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: Dustfinger Batailleur
2h. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: MorphemeAddict
2i. Re: Transcription system for Books
From: MorphemeAddict
3a. Re: OT my sister's death
From: Shreyas Sampat
3b. Re: OT my sister's death
From: René Uittenbogaard
3c. Re: OT my sister's death
From: Cosman246
3d. Re: OT my sister's death
From: Tony Harris
4a. Re: OT: Help: Music composition programs
From: Padraic Brown
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Adjective Suffixes/Prefixes
Posted by: "Alex Fink" 000...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:43 pm ((PDT))
On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:08:29 +0100, David McCann <da...@polymathy.plus.com>
wrote:
>They may inflect for agreement with the noun they qualify,
>in gender, number, and case. The rule is that if the adjective follows
>the noun, then it must inflect if the noun does.
How robust is that? Does it hold even if the inflection is prefixal? Do you
know what diachronic processes are responsible for it?
Alex
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "Shreyas Sampat" ssam...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:44 pm ((PDT))
Option D is the best: Do not transcribe sounds.
Shreyas Sampat
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Dustfinger Batailleur
<dustfinge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm currently writing a fantasy/sci-fi book which is on a planet with a
> very large amount of sentient species, and so loads of different and often
> unrelated languages. A problem arose, which is how I would encode the
> phonetic values of the languages and words and such. I came up with a few
> options:
>
> A) Use IPA - Obviously an eyesore for laymen readers, and some of the
> sounds I'll have aren't even in IPA as they are unpronounceable by humans
> so I'll have to make special characters for them.
>
> B) Use my own transcription system - while it may be slightly easier for
> laymen to read, it still would have diacritic and strange symbol overload
> and people would have a hard time reading it.
>
> C) Try to use English to transcribe sounds - even worse than the other
> choices, it can only represent a small fraction of the sounds I'll need
> accurately.
>
> None of these methods work, so how do I solve this problem?
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "George Corley" gacor...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:44 pm ((PDT))
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Shreyas Sampat <ssam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Option D is the best: Do not transcribe sounds.
Wait, what?
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" lytl...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:47 pm ((PDT))
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 4:35 PM, J. M. DeSantis <j...@jmdesantis.com> wrote:
> Conlang List,
>
> I'll try to add my (modestly informed) two cents on this topic. First, I
> agree with everything said below (Stevo's example of Tolkien's method and
> MorphemeAddict's declaration that "it's not often enough"),
For the record, MorphemeAddict and stevo are the same person. And it was
Dustfinger Batailleur who wrote that "It's often not enough ...".
stevo
> and perhaps, considering these statements, I can add some insight from my
> own experiences.
>
> On 7/29/2012 3:39 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur wrote:
>
>> It's often not enough to represent the wide range of sounds in the
>> languages of the world.
>>
>> On 29 July 2012 15:36, MorphemeAddict <lytl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Tolkien solved this problem using only a few simple diacritical marks on
>>> ordinary letters. I think that's a reasonable solution.
>>>
>>> stevo
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur <
>>> dustfinge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm currently writing a fantasy/sci-fi book which is on a planet with a
>>>> very large amount of sentient species, and so loads of different and
>>>>
>>> often
>>>
>>>> unrelated languages. A problem arose, which is how I would encode the
>>>> phonetic values of the languages and words and such. I came up with a
>>>> few
>>>> options:
>>>>
>>>> A) Use IPA - Obviously an eyesore for laymen readers, and some of the
>>>> sounds I'll have aren't even in IPA as they are unpronounceable by
>>>> humans
>>>> so I'll have to make special characters for them.
>>>>
>>>> B) Use my own transcription system - while it may be slightly easier for
>>>> laymen to read, it still would have diacritic and strange symbol
>>>> overload
>>>> and people would have a hard time reading it.
>>>>
>>>> C) Try to use English to transcribe sounds - even worse than the other
>>>> choices, it can only represent a small fraction of the sounds I'll need
>>>> accurately.
>>>>
>>>> None of these methods work, so how do I solve this problem?
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "Michael Everson" ever...@evertype.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 pm ((PDT))
On 29 Jul 2012, at 20:33, Dustfinger Batailleur wrote:
> While transliterating a single language is pretty easy, transliterating the
> large amount of languages with a single system is madness, and giving each
> language its own system (with characters meaning different things for
> different languages) would also be pretty mad.
One could not say more without knowing about the individual languages. But the
target audience is "readers of the Latin script", so that settles part of the
solution range. I mean, you don't want to have "c" mean one thing in one
language and something totally different in another. Burdening the reader with
some new letters is one thing, but there should be consistency in the œuvre.
On 29 Jul 2012, at 20:36, MorphemeAddict wrote:
> Tolkien solved this problem using only a few simple diacritical marks on
> ordinary letters. I think that's a reasonable solution.
He also didn't have that many languages. Again, it depends what Dustfinger's
specific requirements are. Between encoded UCS characters and some
unencoded-but-destined-for-it-characters, it can't be "impossible" to sort
something out.
On 29 Jul 2012, at 21:35, J. M. DeSantis wrote:
> For one, yes, Tolkien's method was adequate for what he was attempting to
> create, but even so, despite all his best intentions of "regularising" a
> transcription system for Quenya and Sindarin, most people still mispronounced
> certain Elvish names incorrectly, without knowing the language better
> (specifically Celeborn for English speaking peoples).
"Many" perhaps. We can't know about "most".
> But, then again, most English speaking peoples, looking at the Irish female
> name Siobhan, would not know how to pronounce it without being introduced to
> the name and its spelling before trying to sound it out cold.
Especially as it's "Siobhán". ;-)
> That said, and from what I've experienced and learned, I think I can offer
> only this advice: First of all, no matter how "good" you are at presenting a
> transcription system for the reader, inevitably, there are names which people
> will either have difficulty pronouncing or botch up entirely without further
> investigating the proper pronunciations of your language's sounds.
Well, the rules I wrote for Zumorigénflit at
http://www.evertype.com/books/goatland.html are clear enough. It's a coherent
system explained with reference to English sounds (and foreign sounds where
necessary) for English-speaking readers. That's all you can do in this context.
> And let's be clear, not everyone--I dare say not the large majority--of your
> readers will even bother with that, sadly.
Putting the section on spelling and pronunciation in the front-matter is
probably better than putting it in the back-matter though.
> Secondly, as a writer, you do have an obligation, first and foremost, to
> making your work readable and presentable to the general public, not experts
> in your languages.
Quite interesting. In the case of Áloþk, what I got from the author was a very
funny book in which he'd made up a "language". Byron is no conlanger, though.
He's a parodist and satirist and humourist. What he'd done was type word-shapes
that pleased him, and then he put diacritical marks of various kind on every
letter in every word. When I got hold of the book for publication, I realized,
and said to Byron, "We can't put out a book in which a reader would have NO
CHANCE of reading it aloud." Simple as that. "We must have a phonology and an
orthography." So I took Byron's wordshapes and diacritics and the main
character's name "Ałǒŧķ" ([aːwɔθkʲ], I guessed) and started deciding. Since ŧ
is [θ] in Sami I decided I wanted that sound, because I wanted to use the
letter þ. That quickly led to Bashkir phonology (with some umlauted vowels) and
then I applied a conceit of Icelandic Mormon missionaries in Ŋúǧ (to account
for þ and ð) and then I re-spelt and modified word-shapes to make some sort of
sense of it. No, there's no real grammar. But there's structure, and the reader
can pronounce everything with a minimum of trouble. (And this is worthwhile.
because the book is very funny indeed.)
> Thus, you should attempt to represent it in a form which is highly
> approachable. Does that mean you won't have any diacritical marks? Perhaps no
> and perhaps yes.
In part it depends also on the phonology. Or you get "too many h's". :-)
> Consider this: there are plenty of translations of the Mahabharata and the
> Ramayana (to go back to Indian languages again) which do not use the
> otherwise essential diacritical marks on names. Long and short *a* are merely
> represented as "a." Same goes for o, e, u, i and even any complex consonant
> sounds (think Vishnu: most people pronounce it as Vish-noo, but in some
> Indian languages (perhaps even Sanskrit--on this I'm uncertain) the v sound
> is something closer to a sound between v and w--putting your upper teeth near
> the lower lips and blowing through the air passage--than it is to English v,
> yet Vish-noo is still an acceptable pronunciation for non-native speakers).
> Thus, as Tolkien did, you can always append your pronunciation guide, and
> perhaps even the "proper" spellings of names and words, to the end of your
> book.
If Dustfinger has so many languages though it seems pretty central to his task
to represent them better rather than worse. I'd recommend diacritics and
modified Latin letters, which can (if the system is well-designed) be fun and
exotic for the reader. Readers will do SOMETHING with anything you throw at
them.
> After all, don't forget (since Stevo mentioned Tolkien), the name Frodo was
> actually (according to Tolkien) supposed to be transcribed Froda (given
> masculine Hobbit names ended with "a"), however Tolkien changed the
> transcription to help Anglicise the name (and help it not look feminine to
> the reader). Also, Took would actually be transcribed Tuk (with a chevron
> over the u).
"Tûk" with a circumflex can only really be pronnounced [uː], I would guess. The
unauthorized Esperanto Hobbit missed this and calls them "Tjuko". How one gets
[ju] from "oo" I've no idea.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Messages in this topic (18)
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2e. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "J. M. DeSantis" j...@jmdesantis.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:09 pm ((PDT))
Stevo/MorphemeAddict,
You are correct (obviously--it is you after all). I misread the
structure on Dustfinger's last response and attributed both to you, it
seems. My apologies.
Sincerely,
J. M. DeSantis
Writer - Illustrator
Official Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
On 7/29/2012 5:46 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 4:35 PM, J. M. DeSantis <j...@jmdesantis.com> wrote:
>
>> Conlang List,
>>
>> I'll try to add my (modestly informed) two cents on this topic. First, I
>> agree with everything said below (Stevo's example of Tolkien's method and
>> MorphemeAddict's declaration that "it's not often enough"),
>
> For the record, MorphemeAddict and stevo are the same person. And it was
> Dustfinger Batailleur who wrote that "It's often not enough ...".
>
> stevo
>
>
>> and perhaps, considering these statements, I can add some insight from my
>> own experiences.
>>
>> On 7/29/2012 3:39 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur wrote:
>>
>>> It's often not enough to represent the wide range of sounds in the
>>> languages of the world.
>>>
>>> On 29 July 2012 15:36, MorphemeAddict <lytl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tolkien solved this problem using only a few simple diacritical marks on
>>>> ordinary letters. I think that's a reasonable solution.
>>>>
>>>> stevo
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur <
>>>> dustfinge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm currently writing a fantasy/sci-fi book which is on a planet with a
>>>>> very large amount of sentient species, and so loads of different and
>>>>>
>>>> often
>>>>
>>>>> unrelated languages. A problem arose, which is how I would encode the
>>>>> phonetic values of the languages and words and such. I came up with a
>>>>> few
>>>>> options:
>>>>>
>>>>> A) Use IPA - Obviously an eyesore for laymen readers, and some of the
>>>>> sounds I'll have aren't even in IPA as they are unpronounceable by
>>>>> humans
>>>>> so I'll have to make special characters for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> B) Use my own transcription system - while it may be slightly easier for
>>>>> laymen to read, it still would have diacritic and strange symbol
>>>>> overload
>>>>> and people would have a hard time reading it.
>>>>>
>>>>> C) Try to use English to transcribe sounds - even worse than the other
>>>>> choices, it can only represent a small fraction of the sounds I'll need
>>>>> accurately.
>>>>>
>>>>> None of these methods work, so how do I solve this problem?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
2f. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "J. M. DeSantis" j...@jmdesantis.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:34 pm ((PDT))
Michael,
Your rules for reading Zumorigénflit are, indeed, straight forward.
However, what I am referring to is the layman (which will account for
the larger portion of readership, more than likely), will not readily
understand what the symbols Č or Ü or ð mean (to name a few) are without
reading your rules for Zumorigénflit pronunciation. Likely they'll read
them as English C, U and some bizarre letter the writer must've thought
looks cool and "foreign" or "alien." (It only doesn't seem that way
because *you* and *I* are the familiar with the symbols, but I still
recall my utter confusion in my late teens when I began investigating
other languages in my pursuit to create my own and being at an utter
loss for what all of these extra "symbols" even meant--which is what a
layman will experience because they have no knowledge of what to even
attribute these symbols to and so, likely, will settle for the most
apparent choice--that being the letter they look most like).
Likewise for names like Celeborn in Tolkien's languages (if you look at
the rules, it's straight forward and simple to remember). Most English
speaking people (without reading his rules for pronunciation) would
pronounce it "Seleborn" because of the rules for "ce" in English.
All I'm saying is, put the information in the front or the back, there's
going to be a decent (if not large) amount of people who aren't going to
trouble over reading how to pronounce a name properly. (Honestly, a lot
of people just won't care enough to or will find it too tedious or
boring--they'd have to have a love for languages or the content of the
book itself to take it that far; though some simple--less than 10--rules
for pronunciation might be enough to "introduce" the idea.) They're
going to just read on and do the best with it they can. Does that mean
we shouldn't attempt to create conlangs for books or even make them
complex? Not by a long shot. However, I simply believe that in creating
conlangs for works of fiction, one must assume the "risk" of them being
mispronounced. No different than one might mispronounce a word or name
from another language without any previous knowledge of that language's
pronunciation system.
Now, whether you agree with Tolkien in making your languages are
approachable as possible (to people who aren't going to read a lick of
your rules) or whether you think your language should be represented as
close to it's source as possible is a matter of taste and preference.
There's no perfect solution (even Tolkien, who tried to make it all as
"familiar" as possible, wasn't one hundred percent successful), but you
will have people who are going to pay attention to this sort of thing
and those that won't. I just assume one would want to take both into
account when considering their languages for a work of fiction, or at
least be aware of both.
All the best.
Sincerely,
J. M. DeSantis
Writer - Illustrator
Official Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
On 7/29/2012 6:42 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
>> For one, yes, Tolkien's method was adequate for what he was attempting to
>> create, but even so, despite all his best intentions of "regularising" a
>> transcription system for Quenya and Sindarin, most people still
>> mispronounced certain Elvish names incorrectly, without knowing the language
>> better (specifically Celeborn for English speaking peoples).
> "Many" perhaps. We can't know about "most".
>
>> >But, then again, most English speaking peoples, looking at the Irish female
>> >name Siobhan, would not know how to pronounce it without being introduced
>> >to the name and its spelling before trying to sound it out cold.
> Especially as it's "Siobhán".;-)
>
>> >That said, and from what I've experienced and learned, I think I can offer
>> >only this advice: First of all, no matter how "good" you are at presenting
>> >a transcription system for the reader, inevitably, there are names which
>> >people will either have difficulty pronouncing or botch up entirely without
>> >further investigating the proper pronunciations of your language's sounds.
> Well, the rules I wrote for Zumorigénflit
> athttp://www.evertype.com/books/goatland.html are clear enough. It's a
> coherent system explained with reference to English sounds (and foreign
> sounds where necessary) for English-speaking readers. That's all you can do
> in this context.
>
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
2g. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "Dustfinger Batailleur" dustfinge...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:46 pm ((PDT))
Only about 2 of possibly 30 languages have been fully created at current,
but the vast majority will not have very similar phonologies and so will
need their own special characters it seems.
On 29 July 2012 18:42, Michael Everson <ever...@evertype.com> wrote:
> On 29 Jul 2012, at 20:33, Dustfinger Batailleur wrote:
>
> > While transliterating a single language is pretty easy, transliterating
> the large amount of languages with a single system is madness, and giving
> each language its own system (with characters meaning different things for
> different languages) would also be pretty mad.
>
> One could not say more without knowing about the individual languages. But
> the target audience is "readers of the Latin script", so that settles part
> of the solution range. I mean, you don't want to have "c" mean one thing in
> one language and something totally different in another. Burdening the
> reader with some new letters is one thing, but there should be consistency
> in the œuvre.
Continuing on what DeSantis said, it may actually be a good idea to have a
very limited set of special characters and have each character represent a
wide range of IPA sounds - so it's partially accurate. For example, l can
represent the large amount of sounds that most English readers would
perceive as the same or very similar.
Then for those interested I guess it would be possible to include an IPA
reference (with a few invented symbols for the invented sounds) at the back.
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
2h. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" lytl...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:31 pm ((PDT))
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Michael Everson <ever...@evertype.com>wrote:
>
> > After all, don't forget (since Stevo mentioned Tolkien), the name Frodo
> was actually (according to Tolkien) supposed to be transcribed Froda (given
> masculine Hobbit names ended with "a"), however Tolkien changed the
> transcription to help Anglicise the name (and help it not look feminine to
> the reader). Also, Took would actually be transcribed Tuk (with a chevron
> over the u).
>
> "Tûk" with a circumflex can only really be pronnounced [uː], I would
> guess. The unauthorized Esperanto Hobbit missed this and calls them
> "Tjuko". How one gets [ju] from "oo" I've no idea.
>
Simply transliterating as "Tuko" would (or maybe just might) be confusing,
since "tuko" is already an Esperanto word for 'cloth'. He could have just
kept the original "Took". Or spelled it as "Tuuko".
stevo
>
>
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
2i. Re: Transcription system for Books
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" lytl...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:32 pm ((PDT))
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 8:08 PM, J. M. DeSantis <j...@jmdesantis.com> wrote:
> Stevo/MorphemeAddict,
>
> You are correct (obviously--it is you after all). I misread the structure
> on Dustfinger's last response and attributed both to you, it seems. My
> apologies.
No problem.
stevo
>
>
> Sincerely,
> J. M. DeSantis
> Writer - Illustrator
>
> Official Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
> On 7/29/2012 5:46 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 4:35 PM, J. M. DeSantis <j...@jmdesantis.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Conlang List,
>>>
>>> I'll try to add my (modestly informed) two cents on this topic. First, I
>>> agree with everything said below (Stevo's example of Tolkien's method and
>>> MorphemeAddict's declaration that "it's not often enough"),
>>>
>>
>> For the record, MorphemeAddict and stevo are the same person. And it was
>> Dustfinger Batailleur who wrote that "It's often not enough ...".
>>
>> stevo
>>
>>
>> and perhaps, considering these statements, I can add some insight from my
>>> own experiences.
>>>
>>> On 7/29/2012 3:39 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur wrote:
>>>
>>> It's often not enough to represent the wide range of sounds in the
>>>> languages of the world.
>>>>
>>>> On 29 July 2012 15:36, MorphemeAddict <lytl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tolkien solved this problem using only a few simple diacritical marks
>>>> on
>>>>
>>>>> ordinary letters. I think that's a reasonable solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> stevo
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur <
>>>>> dustfinge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm currently writing a fantasy/sci-fi book which is on a planet
>>>>> with a
>>>>>
>>>>>> very large amount of sentient species, and so loads of different and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> often
>>>>>
>>>>> unrelated languages. A problem arose, which is how I would encode the
>>>>>> phonetic values of the languages and words and such. I came up with a
>>>>>> few
>>>>>> options:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A) Use IPA - Obviously an eyesore for laymen readers, and some of the
>>>>>> sounds I'll have aren't even in IPA as they are unpronounceable by
>>>>>> humans
>>>>>> so I'll have to make special characters for them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B) Use my own transcription system - while it may be slightly easier
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> laymen to read, it still would have diacritic and strange symbol
>>>>>> overload
>>>>>> and people would have a hard time reading it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C) Try to use English to transcribe sounds - even worse than the other
>>>>>> choices, it can only represent a small fraction of the sounds I'll
>>>>>> need
>>>>>> accurately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of these methods work, so how do I solve this problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: OT my sister's death
Posted by: "Shreyas Sampat" ssam...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:44 pm ((PDT))
My condolences as well.
Shreyas Sampat
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 1:36 PM, J. M. DeSantis <j...@jmdesantis.com> wrote:
> Roger,
>
> Same here. I am sorry for your loss. Best to you, your family and friends.
>
> Sincerely,
> J. M. DeSantis
> Writer - Illustrator
>
> Official Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
>
> On 7/29/2012 4:02 PM, Nikolay Ivankov wrote:
>>
>> I didn't know. My condolences as well.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Roger Mills <romi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to express my great appreciation to all of you who've sent
>>> condolences. Thank you all so much.
>>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>
>>
>
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: OT my sister's death
Posted by: "René Uittenbogaard" ruitt...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:18 pm ((PDT))
Sorry to hear that, Roger. My condolences.
René
2012/7/29 Roger Mills <romi...@yahoo.com>:
> I want to express my great appreciation to all of you who've sent
> condolences. Thank you all so much.
>
> Roger
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
3c. Re: OT my sister's death
Posted by: "Cosman246" yashtuls...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:21 pm ((PDT))
My condolences to you as well, Roger.
-Yash Tulsyan
On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 2:18 PM, René Uittenbogaard <ruitt...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Sorry to hear that, Roger. My condolences.
>
> René
>
> 2012/7/29 Roger Mills <romi...@yahoo.com>:
> > I want to express my great appreciation to all of you who've sent
> condolences. Thank you all so much.
> >
> > Roger
>
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
3d. Re: OT my sister's death
Posted by: "Tony Harris" t...@alurhsa.org
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:37 pm ((PDT))
Very sorry for your loss, our thoughts/prayers to you and your family.
On 07/29/2012 03:28 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
> I want to express my great appreciation to all of you who've sent
> condolences. Thank you all so much.
>
> Roger
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4a. Re: OT: Help: Music composition programs
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:17 pm ((PDT))
--- On Thu, 7/26/12, Gary Shannon <fizi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This is the one I couldn't recall the name off hand of,
> but I've used
> > this one as well. Certainly wasn't bad by any means,
> and is the one I
> > used for the given music samples. Score quality is
> actually pretty good,
> > though over all I think there are other more powerful
> programs.
> >
> > Padraic
>
> Some years ago I attended a music class given by the
> conductor of the
> local symphony orchestra. In the course of the class I
> showed him some
> orchestral scores I had printed out using Noteworthy
> Composer. Instead
> of talking about the music all he wanted to talk about was
> the
> software. He used some very expensive package whose name I
> don't
> recall, but he was very jealous of my printed Noteworthy
> Scores which
> he said looked better than the scores printed by his
> software.
Could be Sibelius -- quite pricey! Though Ebay vendors can offer new
products at a substantial discount.
Print quality is actually quite decent across a wide range of products,
and I wasn't at all displeased with the others I'd tried.
One of my main concerns would actually be instrument play-back quality.
S. has a sampled orchestra, including all sorts of wonderful oddball
isntruments, organs, gongs and nifty wossnames. For me, hearing the music
more or less as it ought to be heard, rather than with a hit-or-miss MIDI
canned instrument set is more important than awesome v. superbly awesome
engraving.
I actually just downloaded MuseScore. Seems pretty good so far, and the
price is definitely right (free)! Turns out it actually lets you create
some pretty bizarre key and time sigs (which is one reason I was looking
at the pricier software), but unfortunately, it doesn't seem to recognise
the sig on playback. Swithe annoying! I could be doing something wrong,
though. Will have to find out...
Will also have to see how well it does on playback.
Padraic
> FWIW
>
> --gary
>
Messages in this topic (8)
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