There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: [CHAT] Re: Nations
From: Matthew DeBlock
1.2. Re: [CHAT] Re: Nations
From: George Corley
2a. Re: Conjunction Curiosity
From: MorphemeAddict
3a. PIE stops (was: Allophony in Siye)
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
Messages
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1.1. Re: [CHAT] Re: Nations
Posted by: "Matthew DeBlock" vas...@dscript.ca
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:40 am ((PDT))
[snip]
> Did you just seriously cite wikipedia as a source? You realize even
> grade school children require
> better sources.
[snip]
I hear alot of wiki bashing nowadays, usually by people with agendas
I would like to know exactly what source you use as a starting reference
point.
I would love to see their "alternative" source to begin investigations
gotta wonder...
is it at all possible that wikipedia is the largest most unbiased, most
accurate source on the planet?
is it possible that such a large volume of information is impossible to
keep "100% clean"?
is it possible wikipedia is actually the best option avaiable?
...
is it at all possible that "wikipedia haters" have agendas with claims
contrary to popular concensus?
is it possible some peoples agenda hinge strongly on a few key arguments
contradicted by wikipedia?
is it possible they try to change wikipedia, but the masses reject their
notions?
is it possible that "wikipedia hating" is a sign of malcious manipulation
and deception?.. a sign of thinly veiled agendas?
...
no one ever guaranteed it was 100% accurate
its just a concensus
a constantly evolving concensus
and you know what...
pick any field
any topic
Ill bet you the guys adminstering it are at or near the top of their field.
seems to me our best and brightest are all wearing the badge with pride
Probably in their resumes too
...
and thats my "stop the hate" wikipedia rant :)
Messages in this topic (29)
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1.2. Re: [CHAT] Re: Nations
Posted by: "George Corley" gacor...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:11 am ((PDT))
Wikipedia is excellent as a quick reference on a variety of topics, and a
good source as a starting point for informal research and fact-checking,
but universities are right to give it less importance than peer-reviewed
research or other original sources -- at least when talking about English
Wikipedia (I understand that the German version is far more academic in
nature and has a better reputation). Maybe a few people will discredit
Wikipedia because they disagree with a specific fact -- but there are real
reasons that people discount it in certain circumstances, whether they be
valid or not.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and encyclopedia has always been meant as
quick references. I was taught back in high school, before Wikipedia was
big, not to use encyclopedias as sources in term papers, so not using WP in
formal contexts is part of a pre-existing tradition with good reasons
behind it, but it should be at least reasonably useful to us in this
informal board discussions.
Messages in this topic (29)
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2a. Re: Conjunction Curiosity
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" lytl...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:09 am ((PDT))
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:43 PM, neo gu <qiihos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> and now in C2 (VAN), again with temporary vocabulary.
>
> 0^(kn0&a^(kn~6^[kn0=fu. [xn!3.
> 0^(kn0&a(kn~6^[kn0=st. [tc!3.
> 0(kn0&a^(kn~6[kn0]sl. [wk!3.
> 0(kn0&a(kn~6[kn0]wz. [fw!3.
>
> > He who knows not and knows not he knows not
> > He is a fool. Shun him.
> > He who knows not and knows he knows not
> > He is a student. Teach him.
> > He who knows and knows not he knows
> > He is asleep. Wake him.
> > He who knows and knows he knows
> > He is wise. Follow him.
>
What do all the parts mean?
stevo
Messages in this topic (21)
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3a. PIE stops (was: Allophony in Siye)
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" joerg_rhieme...@web.de
Date: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:31 am ((PDT))
Hallo conlangers!
On Friday 10 August 2012 19:14:20 Alex Fink wrote:
> [...]
> Parsing ambiguity, I think. Labiovelars became
> - palatals which then became dentals, before [i];
> - velars before [u];
> - labials elsewhere.
>
> For what it's worth, that wasn't the original reason I brought up Greek.
> Rather I was thinking that from Koine onward its three series were
> voiceless stops and voiceless and voiced fricatives, just like Germanic
> before the voiced fricatives rehardened. So if this is any good as an
> example of correcting a paucity of stops, as Anthony was asking, we'd
> expect that IE had more /p t k^ k kw/ than /b d g^ g gw/ (modulo
> series-changing developments, borrowings, etc.).
PIE indeed had more voiceless than plain voiced stops. The
voiceless grade was the most common, the plain voiced the
rarest of the three stop grades (the voiced aspirated grade
was intermediate in frequency between the other two). This,
together with some other things such as the developments in
Germanic and Armenian, has caused some linguists to assume
that what is conventionally reconstructed as /b/, /d/ etc.
actually may have been ejective stops (/p'/, /t'/, ...), but
that is not accepted by most Indo-Europeanists. It may have
been that the "glottalic" model applies to some prestage of
PIE proper, while PIE proper was as traditionally reconstructed.
(Of course, if Anatolian, as most scholars now assume, split
off earlier than the other IE languages, one has to distinguish
between an "Early PIE" as the ancestor of all IE languages
including Anatolian, and a "Late PIE" as the ancestor of the
non-Anatolian languages. The standard model probably describes
Late PIE well, but Early PIE may have been quite different.)
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (13)
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