There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: Of cubes & triangles
From: Padraic Brown
1.2. Re: Of cubes & triangles
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
2a. Names (And I promise this has nothing to do with real people)
From: Mia Harper (Soderquist)
2b. Re: Names (And I promise this has nothing to do with real people)
From: Tony Harris
2c. Re: Names (And I promise this has nothing to do with real people)
From: MorphemeAddict
Messages
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1.1. Re: Of cubes & triangles
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:45 am ((PDT))
--- On Tue, 8/28/12, Iuhan Culmærija <culm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know whether I want to phrase this as a question or
> statement - but
> why do we need to include Auxlang-ness on the diagram?
> _Anything_ can be an auxlang. The only defining factor is
> the creator's intention; even Quenya could have been proposed as an
> auxlang, but does that detract from its artistic qualities?
Definitely good points there! English, French, Latin, Mandarin -- all are
auxlangs.
I think the point of placing them there was simply the difference in
philosophy as compared to for example artlangs. Not so much that there
must be some qualitative differences between the languages themselves.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (63)
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1.2. Re: Of cubes & triangles
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" joerg_rhieme...@web.de
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:59 am ((PDT))
Hallo conlangers!
On Tuesday 28 August 2012 16:45:52 Padraic Brown wrote:
> --- On Tue, 8/28/12, Iuhan Culmærija <culm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't know whether I want to phrase this as a question or
> > statement - but
> > why do we need to include Auxlang-ness on the diagram?
> > _Anything_ can be an auxlang. The only defining factor is
> > the creator's intention; even Quenya could have been proposed as an
> > auxlang, but does that detract from its artistic qualities?
>
> Definitely good points there! English, French, Latin, Mandarin -- all are
> auxlangs.
Sure, they are. Auxlangs that aren't conlangs. And English is
about to be established as what Volapük, Esperanto and all the
others were meant to become by their authors - the language that
every educated person speaks besides their native language, such
that everybody can talk to everybody.
What regards the idea of using Quenya as an auxlang, it is as
far as I know of course a third-party suggestion; and I have
indeed seen proposed auxlangs that are no better for this job
than Quenya! What counts for classifying a conlang as an
auxlang is whether the author intended to have it used for that
purpose or not. Under this regard, Quenya is not an auxlang,
while Lojban is at least to some degree, even if it is not the
primary purpose of the language. Cases such as Lojban show
that "auxlanginess" is not a black-or-white issue.
> I think the point of placing them there was simply the difference in
> philosophy as compared to for example artlangs. Not so much that there
> must be some qualitative differences between the languages themselves.
Yes. Now that I think about it, artificial auxlangs could
perhaps be considered a type of engelang - languages
engineered to fit the purpose of an international auxiliary
language! Having "auxlang" as one of the three primary
motivations of conlanging besides "artlang" and "engelang"
may simply be a tribute to the historical relevance of this
métier.
Before we had the Gnoli Triangle, people distinguished between
"auxlangs" (Volapük, Esperanto, etc.) and "artlangs" (Quenya,
Tsolyani, etc.) until Gnoli and others realized that there were
languages (such as Lojban) that did not fit either category,
and added a third pole. Gnoli first identified the loglangs
to be at this third pole, and arrived at the triangle named
after him. Later, this triangle was amended by extending the
"loglang" category to other kinds of engineered languages.
Also, the intersection between auxlangs and (other types of)
engelangs is considerable. The 17th-century (and later)
"philosophical" languages are extremely engineered, and were
also intended for use as auxlangs. The case of Lojban and
other loglangs has already been mentioned. Of course, there
are also engelangs without any auxlang motivation, such as
Ithkuil.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (63)
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2a. Names (And I promise this has nothing to do with real people)
Posted by: "Mia Harper (Soderquist)" gloriouswaf...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:44 am ((PDT))
I have recently started creating/collecting personal names in Teliya
Nevashi, and it is very, very slow going. Almost all the names so far
are also just plain words, which I realize isn't all that uncommon in
the real world, and it seems unavoidable, since there isn't any
Proto-Nevashi to draw on for elements I could mash together for names.
(I just don't work that way. It doesn't further my goals.) So far, my
names are nature and virtue names. I am trying to decide if I ought to
hypothesize earlier forms so I can dice them up and reassemble them as
things that function only as names in the language. Or maybe just dice
up words that exist into elements that exist only in names.
I am waiting for the point where I create a name and then work back from
there to a common word that doesn't yet exist.
I spend a lot of time thinking about personal names in the real world.
Not names of real people, but hypothetical names for hypothetical
people. It's right out there on the end of the geek branch with conlanging.
Mia.
Messages in this topic (3)
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2b. Re: Names (And I promise this has nothing to do with real people)
Posted by: "Tony Harris" t...@alurhsa.org
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:02 am ((PDT))
I have a similar process in Alurhsa. I do have several dozen personal
names, plus maybe a dozen tribal/family/clan names. The former are
generally derivatives from roots or combinations of roots, usually
nature, virtue, or characteristic names. The latter, oddly, don't seem
to be, and end up with me puzzling over a clan name that I know sounds
very Alurhsa and works, yet doesn't have obvious derivation.
On 08/28/2012 11:45 AM, Mia Harper (Soderquist) wrote:
> I have recently started creating/collecting personal names in Teliya
> Nevashi, and it is very, very slow going. Almost all the names so far
> are also just plain words, which I realize isn't all that uncommon in
> the real world, and it seems unavoidable, since there isn't any
> Proto-Nevashi to draw on for elements I could mash together for names.
> (I just don't work that way. It doesn't further my goals.) So far, my
> names are nature and virtue names. I am trying to decide if I ought to
> hypothesize earlier forms so I can dice them up and reassemble them as
> things that function only as names in the language. Or maybe just dice
> up words that exist into elements that exist only in names.
>
> I am waiting for the point where I create a name and then work back
> from there to a common word that doesn't yet exist.
>
> I spend a lot of time thinking about personal names in the real world.
> Not names of real people, but hypothetical names for hypothetical
> people. It's right out there on the end of the geek branch with
> conlanging.
>
> Mia.
Messages in this topic (3)
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2c. Re: Names (And I promise this has nothing to do with real people)
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" lytl...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:18 am ((PDT))
Something I just thought of as a naming convention is to take an ordinary
word, e.g., curiosity, and 'tweek' it: Curiosit|a/o/ay, Kuriosity,
Curiozity, Curriosity (also hints at 'running'), so it's not just he
ordinary word anymore.
stevo
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Mia Harper (Soderquist) <
gloriouswaf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have recently started creating/collecting personal names in Teliya
> Nevashi, and it is very, very slow going. Almost all the names so far are
> also just plain words, which I realize isn't all that uncommon in the real
> world, and it seems unavoidable, since there isn't any Proto-Nevashi to
> draw on for elements I could mash together for names. (I just don't work
> that way. It doesn't further my goals.) So far, my names are nature and
> virtue names. I am trying to decide if I ought to hypothesize earlier forms
> so I can dice them up and reassemble them as things that function only as
> names in the language. Or maybe just dice up words that exist into elements
> that exist only in names.
>
> I am waiting for the point where I create a name and then work back from
> there to a common word that doesn't yet exist.
>
> I spend a lot of time thinking about personal names in the real world. Not
> names of real people, but hypothetical names for hypothetical people. It's
> right out there on the end of the geek branch with conlanging.
>
> Mia.
>
Messages in this topic (3)
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