There are 12 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: monotransitive verb : antipassive voice :: ditransitive verb : ?
From: Arthaey Angosii
1b. Re: monotransitive verb : antipassive voice :: ditransitive verb : ?
From: Adam Walker
2.1. Re: Real names
From: Padraic Brown
2.2. Re: Real names
From: Daniel Bowman
2.3. Re: Real names
From: Jim Henry
2.4. Re: Real names
From: Alex Fink
3a. Bernard Comrie, The World's Major Languages, 2ed (2011)
From: taliesin the storyteller
3b. Re: Bernard Comrie, The World's Major Languages, 2ed (2011)
From: MorphemeAddict
4a. Re: Rebellious Case Markings
From: Alex Fink
4b. Re: Rebellious Case Markings
From: Arthaey Angosii
5a. META: Conlang-L FAQ
From: Henrik Theiling
6. ¡Hasta luego!
From: R A Brown
Messages
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1a. Re: monotransitive verb : antipassive voice :: ditransitive verb : ?
Posted by: "Arthaey Angosii" arth...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:58 am ((PDT))
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 9:38 AM, David McCann <da...@polymathy.plus.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:39:51 -0700
> Arthaey Angosii <arth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So if antipassive voice is decreasing a monotransitive verb's valency
>> by removing the object, what's the term for decreasing a ditransitive
>> verb's valency by removing the indirect object? Or by removing both
>> the direct *and* indirect objects?
>>
> The rare applicative voice converts the indirect object into a
> direct object and deletes the original one, as in the American "I wrote
> my sister". Chamorro has a form for this.
>
> The equally rare circumstantial voice converts the indirect object into
> a subject and deletes or demotes the agent: 'I was given it". Malagasy
> has a special form.
>
> You can then combine these with the passive, as in the Kinyarwanda
> ikíbáaho ki-ra-andik-w-á-ho imibáre
> blackboard 3-PRES-write-PASS-PROG-LOC maths
> the blackboard is having maths written on it
> Yet another voice here: the locative!
You examples all involve *promoting* things into the subject position.
I was looking for a voice that deletes the *explicit* object(s) but
still grammatically marks the verb as having the same valence as
before, just with *omitted* object(s).
Here are some concrete examples:
vorn-vyo lór-na likhu-nn
man-BENEF gift-ACC give-1
"I give the man a gift"
lór-na vyo-likhu-nn
gift-ACC ANTI_BENEF-give-1
"I give (someone) a gift"
vyo-na-likhu-nn
ANTI_BENEF-ANTI_PASS-give-1
"I give (someone) (something)"
--
AA
http://conlang.arthaey.com
Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: monotransitive verb : antipassive voice :: ditransitive verb : ?
Posted by: "Adam Walker" carra...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:16 am ((PDT))
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Arthaey Angosii <arth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here are some concrete examples:
>
> vorn-vyo lór-na likhu-nn
> man-BENEF gift-ACC give-1
> "I give the man a gift"
>
> lór-na vyo-likhu-nn
> gift-ACC ANTI_BENEF-give-1
> "I give (someone) a gift"
>
> vyo-na-likhu-nn
> ANTI_BENEF-ANTI_PASS-give-1
> "I give (someone) (something)"
>
>
>
I like these a lot. I wonder if one of my alien languages could use
structures like these....
Adam
Messages in this topic (4)
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2.1. Re: Real names
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:29 am ((PDT))
--- On Fri, 8/31/12, Sam Stutter <samjj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> To get really philosophical, Brian,
> do you believe a name is something one is given, or
> something one has in oneself?
For me, names can be given by oneself or by others. Clearly, everyone in
modern Western society (and probably in most every other place east, south
or north) has a given name of some sort.
It's just a matter of cultural evolution that we are moving again to a
situation where an individual can have different names in different
contexts. I think we're just going to have to get used to things like
"Borschtforlife777" as an actual name; and also that names given at birth
(or baptism or whatever) are no more "real" than any other identifier.
Just because Uncle Sam keeps an official record of a name or a national
id number does not mean he has any kind of power over the individual. Well,
he has no power over the individual that that individual's society is not
willing to grant him through its own malice or complacency!
> Names, in Celtic mythology
> certainly, and so presumably elsewhere, have always been
> something dreadfully important: knowing someone's true name
> is a method of control.
Good idea never to divulge that name. Better still to never buy into this
notion at all! [*]
> And if you've ever read Jean Rhyss'
> _Wide Sargasso Sea_ you'll know how Rochester changes
> Antoinette's name in order to have some degree of control
> over her. In modern society, along the your national
> security number (or whatever), your name is something used
> to keep track of you and, for the more paranoid amongst us,
> a method of direct control.
>
> If you were born, alone on a desert island, with no one to
> talk to, ignoring the question of whether you would have an
> internal language to orchestrate your thoughts, would you
> give yourself a name? How would you make sense of the "me"
> living in your head? Cue Doctor Who references such as
> "Stormagedon, Dark Lord of All" and a Farside cartoon
> entitled "Names we give dogs and the names dogs give
> themselves".
It's probable that if you're born alone on a desert island that you'd never
develop language at all. If you were born elsewhere and became stranded
alone on a desert island ("Lord of the Flies" without all the flies), then
I'd hazard the guess that you might could hang on to that name with a
fierceness just in order to maintain some sense of civilisation and
normality in the face of utter isolation.
Perhaps this will depend on the individual. Internally, I don't address
myself by any name. I know that I am and don't need to keep reminding
myself of what other people call me by. I don't expect that would change
just because of being stranded on an island.
> If a name is something you give yourself, something
> consensual, then it's a way of defining yourself and selling
> yourself
Names can indeed be a way of selling yourself -- authors and media folks
often use pseudonyms or stage names in order to sell their product. Who
sounds more likely to be an opera star: Alessandro Blondini or Peter Poffe?
> - hence it's probably useful in the modern world to
> be able to use different names to sell yourself differently
> in different spheres / communities. I know judging a book by
> it's cover is supposedly Bad, but a cover usually tells you
> everything you need to know about how a person interacts
> with the world or wants to be perceived by the world: a name
> is just part of a person's dust jacket.
Well, the cover of a book only tells you about the marketing aims of the
publisher and the erotic fantasies of the artist, not so much about the
content of the book itself. A lot of books with exciting cover art and
enticing blurbs on the back have turned out to be horrifically unreadable
as stories.
As for people, you really can't judge by first impressions. You don't know
if someone is having a bad day, or if they are always cranky; of if it's
really you yourself that is the problem. It can take a long while to
*really* come to learn how a person interacts with the world and wants to
be perceived. Anything less is in my opinion harmfully and perhaps even
morally superficial and ultimately unhelpful in so far as creating and
maintaining a relationship of some sort goes.
> If it's something people impose upon you, then it's a method
> by which other people attempt to control who you are -
> particularly as names have actual encoded meanings, rather
> than just being "suggestive" of a meaning.
You still have to buy into this.
> If it's the former, pseudonyms are a human right and, from
> speaking to Sai on Google+, I learn that self definition is
> part of common law.
Indeed, though "Sai" is not a pseudonym! He has simply taken this whole
conversation to its logical conclusion, has claimed the fundamental right
to his Own Name and has declared what that Name shall be.
> If it's the latter, then that's really
> unfair and needs to be changed. Hence, you've got two types
> of pseudonym: the first disguises your true identity - to
> prevent control, and the second reveals what you believe
> your true identity actually is - to gain control over your
> identity.
The question then: are these really pseudonyms? Especially the latter. I
think there is a continuum, as with most things.
> *Actually*, if anyone thinks this is going OT, well, ha,
> because this is exactly the right place to bring it back to
> conlanging. In many cultures, one is given a name at birth
> and then chooses one oneself when you come of age. How does
> your conlang:
I'll answer for Auntimoanye of the Eastlands:
> a) coin names?
Names in this culture fall into a number of broad categories. Very many
are religious in nature, so you find a lot of folk named Lucam, Thomam,
Jhonam, Wethanam, Wêlundaz, Wandez, Maryam, Lelspethez, Yastrez, Nerthez
and the like. Others are ordinary words -- animals, flowers, aspects of
nature -- used as names: Wolfaz, Gondolfaz, Rederunez, Hyldegardez,
Sturmgardaz and the like. Still others are foreign transplants:
Rumeliardez, Cgeoliam, Ruofuz, Lybias, Chaam, etc.
> b) give them to people?
Kristian children are formally given their name at chrismation (Baptism
being something you get in your teens), but the ceremony is very much
like infant baptism *here*. Pagan children are given their names at birth.
You might think that you wouldn't find many Pagans named Maryam or many
Kristians names Wethanam, but that's not the case at all! You do find a
lot of name mixing. Daine, though accounted neither Kristian nor Pagan,
also give their children their first name at birth.
> c) are there differences / similarities between names for
> each gender?
Masculine names tend to end in -az (the old Proto-Thietish masculine
a-stem ending) or -am (a much later development of unknown provenance);
feminine names tend to end in -ez (the old e/i-stem ending). Avantimannish
doesn't have grammatical gender, so those clues don't help so much
anymore. The traditional biradical Thietish names tend to be rather
similar for both men and women -- strong words involving mighty beasts
like wolves, bears, foxes, auroxen, olifants; warlike pursuits; mythic
heroes and races (keeping in mind that most of these ain't all that
mythological); wisdom and magical terms.
> d) use names for genetic continuity / heritage (if at all)?
Family names would fall under this category. In general terms, family
names are a thing in flux. Names can change as family fortunes or even
the nature of one's business change. The only people that really have
true "family names" are landed nobility, and a nobleman or woman's family
name only derives from their association with the land. Just because you
were born Markam wan Suthrondalos doesn't mean you always will be. If you
marry into a different family, your family name would change, though you
might append your former affiliation: Markam on Angrenfeld was
Suthrondalos.
> e) etc
Ekcettris interspersis
And then among the Daine of Westmarche, the country bordering Auntimoanye
to the west:
> a) coin names?
In the Westmarche, the Daine speak a language similar to Avantimannish.
Perhaps something more akin to a creole with Thietish lexicon and their
own grammar superimposed.
Name words are, like their Mannish neighbors', simply taken from the words
in everyday use. There are quite a few verifiably ancient Daine names the
meanings of which are largely forgotten if they ever had a particular
meaning (other Daine are known to bestow semantically meaningless names).
> b) give them to people?
Unlike most other Daine, those of WM are given a Name but once in their
lives, though they may take nicknames or other names on their own later
in life as they please.
One name is given by each parent and each godparent, so everyone has at
least four names to start with. If your father has three wives, then
you'd have six names.
Of these names, your eldest sister will pick one seems best to be your
"common name" or first name. The other names are used on formal occasions but
your first name how everyone around knows you and generally how
friends and visitors from far away will be introduced.
During childhood, your siblings and cousins will naturally give you one or
more nicknames and by adolescence (say 20 to 25 years) you'll almost
certainly have given yourself a name or two.
So you get folks with names like Appenybret Whitteth Forspon Ponchfang
(Halfpenny-Bright White-Tooth Old-Spoon Five-Fangs) who calls herself
Moonwolf but everyone knows her as Lil Bit cos she's so short, and really
can't do much about it. You can probably guess which name her younger
brothers call her...
> c) are there differences / similarities between names for
> each gender?
No. Daine don't really go in for "girls names" and "boys names". The only
exceptions are the names Enca & Nima (both girls name) and Nico (a boys
name) -- these are the names of ancient culture heroes and are generally
assigned to girls and boys according to long standing custom.
> d) use names for genetic continuity / heritage (if at all)?
Daine in general don't have family names as such, nor even m/patronymics.
In WM, you might be further known by some geographical surname or by
what province you're from. But those are really just further nicknames,
not any kind of official name.
[*] In the World, that notion, that knowing the True Name of something or
someone has some validity. While even an Adept can't change the very
being of something or compel someone to do something against his very
nature armed only with a True Name, there are things that can be done. A
wolf may be compelled to savage your enemy with unaccountable ferocity,
but he can't make the poor beastie climb the tree to get you kind of thing.
Padraic
> Sam Stutter (pretty much my legal name)
Padraic
Messages in this topic (87)
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2.2. Re: Real names
Posted by: "Daniel Bowman" danny.c.bow...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:49 am ((PDT))
> It's probable that if you're born alone on a desert island that you'd never
> develop language at all.
>
>
As an aside, Alfred Ayer published a famous essay called "Can there be a
Private Language" concerning that statement. It's been five years since I
read it, and I do not recall if it specifically addressed a castaway naming
himself. However it does point out that a person existing entirely in
isolation would first have to develop the *concept of language* prior to
inventing a new language.
I managed to track down a link:
http://archive.org/details/conceptofpersono00ayer
The essay starts on Page 36.
Danny
Messages in this topic (87)
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2.3. Re: Real names
Posted by: "Jim Henry" jimhenry1...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:24 pm ((PDT))
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- On Fri, 8/31/12, Sam Stutter <samjj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> in different spheres / communities. I know judging a book by
>> it's cover is supposedly Bad, but a cover usually tells you
>> everything you need to know about how a person interacts
>> with the world or wants to be perceived by the world: a name
>> is just part of a person's dust jacket.
The analogys seems inapt. I don't think a book's cover art, or even
its title, is a good analogy for person's name -- certainly not given
names, and only rarely for self-chosen names. From a person's given
name you can make a guess at their ethnicity, and maybe at their age
(based on when certain names for babies were most popular; e.g.
somebody named "Jason" is probably under 45), but that's about it.
>From their nickname or online handle you might get a little bit more
information about their personality or interests, but probably not as
much or as reliable information as you'd get about the typical book
from its title or its cover design.
> Well, the cover of a book only tells you about the marketing aims of the
> publisher and the erotic fantasies of the artist, not so much about the
> content of the book itself. A lot of books with exciting cover art and
> enticing blurbs on the back have turned out to be horrifically unreadable
> as stories.
The *quality* of the cover art, typography, layout, etc. may have very
little correlation with the *quality* of the writing and storytelling.
And a lot of covers don't represent the detailed content of the book
with a high degree of accuracy. But once you get to know the cues and
conventions, they are a halfway decent guide to what genre and
subgenre the book falls into. Not a perfectly reliable guide, but far
more reliable than facing a shelf of indentically formatted books with
no cover art, only the title and author's name in a single standard
font... you'd have grab each book whose title looks halfway
interesting and read the first page or so, rather than subconsciously
filtering them by their cover art into the genres you're interested in
and those you aren't, so you don't have to read the first pages of so
many books to find the ones you want to read.
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
Messages in this topic (87)
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2.4. Re: Real names
Posted by: "Alex Fink" 000...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:31 pm ((PDT))
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:52:50 +0100, Sam Stutter <samjj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>*Actually*, if anyone thinks this is going OT, well, ha, because this is
>exactly the right place to bring it back to conlanging. In many cultures, one
>is given a name at birth and then chooses one oneself when you come of age.
>How does your conlang:
>
>a) coin names?
>b) give them to people?
>c) are there differences / similarities between names for each gender?
>d) use names for genetic continuity / heritage (if at all)?
>e) etc
I hain't given more than trivial thought to onomastics in my langs, but let me
turn this around and ask an ANADEW-type question.
Some people here have mentioned naming schemes where, in various ways, names
are arranged to be nonwords. But this kind of thing feels rather unlikely to
me. Names being straight-up meaningful (maybe plus a name-making morpheme),
natural enough; names being chosen from a standard stock most of whose meanings
have been long forgotten, fine. But an actual constraint _against_ a name
being a word? Names assembled bespoke for their sound-taste, or omnium
gatherum out of syllables, with no particular invocation of any words intended?
Do these things actually happen? (often?)
I suppose modern-day black Americans kinda exemplify a form of the second
pattern, so there's one. (And it can be accounted for. Here is David Zax
tracing its origins back to 60s black separatist sentiment:
http://www.salon.com/2008/08/25/creative_black_names/
Do those of you with this kind of pattern have such explanations for it?)
Alex
Messages in this topic (87)
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3a. Bernard Comrie, The World's Major Languages, 2ed (2011)
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" taliesin-conl...@nvg.org
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:37 pm ((PDT))
I saw this for a reasonable price on amazon (the first edition is even
cheaper) and snapped it up, as it's been on my wish list for over a
decade or so. I have read one chapter that I feel I am qualified to say
something about, chapter 1.2.6 "Danish, Norwegian and Swedish".
I wrote this enormous rant but have cut it down after letting the mail
sit in the Drafts-folder for a few days.
Basically:
Meh. Is the rest of the book as meh as that chapter?
The author of the chapter is Einar Haugen, who died in 1994. The newest
reference for Norwegian is from 1994. The newest reference in the
chapter is 2007. Nowhere does it say who updated the references and/or
chapter past 1994. In 1997 a linguisticy reference grammar for Norwegian
was published, "Norsk referansegrammatikk"[*]. That is not one of the
references.
My L1 is Norwegian. The Norwegian he describes might have been correct
before I was born. I've checked with other Norwegians, they think it
sounds like something from the 1930s. My grandparents would speak like
that when making a joke or telling stories about the bad old days.
As for the author, he was a philologist, not a linguist, a
Norwegian-American born in Iowa. Emigrant languages are generally more
conservative, so that might explain it.
There are technical difficulties too. Some of the interlinears in my
test-chapter are missing words.There is no detailed table of contents,
just pointers to where each language is described.
So: for you who have English as an L1, is the English chapter as
disappointing? What about French? Dutch? Latin? All the other chapters
in the book?
[*] I consider this to be a good reference grammar. I was able to write
a parser for a subset of possible NPs with it while an undergrad.
t.
Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Bernard Comrie, The World's Major Languages, 2ed (2011)
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" lytl...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:40 pm ((PDT))
My copy of Comrie is in storage, hence inaccessible, but when I find it,
I'll take a look.
stevo
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 4:37 PM, taliesin the storyteller <
taliesin-conl...@nvg.org> wrote:
> I saw this for a reasonable price on amazon (the first edition is even
> cheaper) and snapped it up, as it's been on my wish list for over a decade
> or so. I have read one chapter that I feel I am qualified to say something
> about, chapter 1.2.6 "Danish, Norwegian and Swedish".
>
> I wrote this enormous rant but have cut it down after letting the mail sit
> in the Drafts-folder for a few days.
>
> Basically:
>
> Meh. Is the rest of the book as meh as that chapter?
>
> The author of the chapter is Einar Haugen, who died in 1994. The newest
> reference for Norwegian is from 1994. The newest reference in the chapter
> is 2007. Nowhere does it say who updated the references and/or chapter past
> 1994. In 1997 a linguisticy reference grammar for Norwegian was published,
> "Norsk referansegrammatikk"[*]. That is not one of the references.
>
> My L1 is Norwegian. The Norwegian he describes might have been correct
> before I was born. I've checked with other Norwegians, they think it sounds
> like something from the 1930s. My grandparents would speak like that when
> making a joke or telling stories about the bad old days.
>
> As for the author, he was a philologist, not a linguist, a
> Norwegian-American born in Iowa. Emigrant languages are generally more
> conservative, so that might explain it.
>
> There are technical difficulties too. Some of the interlinears in my
> test-chapter are missing words.There is no detailed table of contents, just
> pointers to where each language is described.
>
> So: for you who have English as an L1, is the English chapter as
> disappointing? What about French? Dutch? Latin? All the other chapters in
> the book?
>
> [*] I consider this to be a good reference grammar. I was able to write a
> parser for a subset of possible NPs with it while an undergrad.
>
>
> t.
>
Messages in this topic (2)
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4a. Re: Rebellious Case Markings
Posted by: "Alex Fink" 000...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:56 pm ((PDT))
Yeah, this all seems a totally fine development to me; I wouldn't rein it in.
Re the second:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 17:19:12 +0100, David McCann <da...@polymathy.plus.com>
wrote:
>> Second, the agglutinating verbal affixes have up and demanded that
>> they can stand alone, without any dummy verb to attach to! Unlike the
>> location/motion duality above, I don't know if I'll let this weirdness
>> stand:
>>
>> vorn khútha-é syo-k
>> man house-LOC into-not
>> "the man is not (moving/going) into the house"
>> (zero-copula sentence for motion, verb only implied by motion
>> prefix!)
>
>syo here seems a perfectly proper adposition here. The only special
>thing is suffixing the negative affix. But negative affixes do have a
>habit of sticking to things: no < nought < ne + áwiht "no thing",
>Latin negare "deny" from a negative adverb with a verbal suffix added.
Perhaps compare also the way (at least my) English permits "the cat wants out",
which lacks a verb but is equivalent in sense to "the cat wants to go out".
Alex
Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: Rebellious Case Markings
Posted by: "Arthaey Angosii" arth...@gmail.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:08 pm ((PDT))
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Alex Fink <000...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, this all seems a totally fine development to me; I wouldn't rein it in.
> Re the second:
>
> Perhaps compare also the way (at least my) English permits "the cat wants
> out",
> which lacks a verb but is equivalent in sense to "the cat wants to go out".
Alrighty, that's two people without a "what the hell are you doing??"
reaction, so I'm going to keep both these things. Thanks for being a
sounding board! :)
--
AA
http://conlang.arthaey.com
Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. META: Conlang-L FAQ
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" h...@theiling.de
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:05 pm ((PDT))
The following is the de facto Conlang-L FAQ, hosted at:
http://wiki.frath.net/Conlang-L_FAQ
This is automatically posted once a month, copied directly from that page,
for the benefit of new members. If you would like to change it, please
edit it at the link above.
**Henrik
==Where to get Conlang-L==
The official archives are at http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/conlang.html .
>From there, you can search the archives, get an RSS feed, manage your
subscription, etc.
It's also the ONLY place you can go to sign up and post things to the list.
A read-only archive with a nicer user interface is at
http://archives.conlang.info/ . [As of April 2009 this archive has ceased
mirroring new messages. Henrik Theiling knows about the problem and has said
he's planning to fix it but hasn't had time to do so yet.]
Conlang-L is also _mirrored_ as a Yahoo group, but there is no way to have
posts to the Yahoo group sent to the actual list. Do *not* subscribe to the
Yahoo group. It has no admin anymore. Go to
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/conlang.html instead!
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The CONLANG list rejects attachments.
===Posting limits===
As a traffic-limiting measure, if the list receives more than 99 messages in a
given day (in Brown's time zone), all subsequent messages will be
automatically held and not delivered until the admin unblocks the list.
Sometimes, during longer periods of high traffic, a further limit is imposed
restricting each person to five posts a day. ''This restriction is currently
in force.'' Messages beyond the daily limit are simply bounced, not held for
the next day.
Posters are encouraged to consolidate several shorter replies on a single
topic into a single message.
==Subject Topic Tags==
In the subject line of a post, you can mark the post with one of the following
tags. Tags are only recognised if a colon follows immediately: no other
decoration (e.g. brackets, an extra space) should be used. Any 'Re:' etc. is
irrelevant -- the software skips it.
Good tag syntax:
CHAT: Is the world really round?
Bad tag syntax:
[CHAT]: Is the world really round?
These are the official tags the listserv software can be instructed to
filter automatically. There are currently exactly four:
* OT: off-topic stuff
* CHAT: off-topic stuff of the conversational sort
* USAGE: natural language usage (all of the YAEPT and similar should use this)
* THEORY: linguistic theory discussions
Only the above tags are official and configured for filtering. However, most
advanced mail clients can be set to have extra filters, such as for the
following unofficial tags:
* OFFLIST: not actually seen on-list, this tag is added to make explicitly
clear that you are taking a subject offlist (i.e. you're emailing someone
directly about it)
The following are explicitly not included in the list of filterable tags:
* META: threads about CONLANG-L itself
* TECH: technical issues (e.g. email programs, list-related technical
problems, etc)
Finally, there are two meta-tags:
* [CONLANG]: This should not be actually added when starting a new subject;
you can make the listserv prepend it automatically to all email (so that you
can set your mail client to filter all list traffic)
* "was": used to change the subject, or more commonly, to indicate that the
subject of a thread changed a while ago and you're no longer pretending it's
about the original topic
Example:
JAMA says flat earth leads to flat [@] (was CHAT: Is the world really round?)
Note that tags ARE included after the "was", but "Re:" is NOT, nor is
[CONLANG].
==Acronyms==
List of acronyms specific to the Conlang Mailing List:
* AFMCL - "As for my conlang.."
** AFMOCL - "As for my own conlang"
* ANADEW - "A natlang's already dunnit, except worse"
* ANADEWism - Something you thought was unique, but ANADEW
* IML - "in my 'lect" (dialect or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiolect
idiolect], depending on context)
* LCC - the [http://conference.conlang.org Language Creation Conference]
* LCS - the [http://conlang.org Language Creation Society]
* NCNC - "No cross, no crown". In the context of the list, "don't discuss
religion or politics"
([http://recycledknowledge.blogspot.com/2006/05/no-cross-no-crown.html not its
more general meaning]).
* NLF2DWS or NLWS - Non-linear [fully 2-dimensional] writing system
* YAEPT (the original acronym) - Yet Another English Pronunciation Thread
** YADPT ... Dutch Pronunciation ...
** YAGPT ... German Pronunciation ...
** YAEGT ... English Grammar ...
** YAEUT ... English Usage ...
** general pattern: YA(Language)(Topic)T
Acronyms not on this list might be in general usage: try
[http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aafaict Google's define:] or
[http://www.acronymfinder.com/ Acronym Finder].
==Other conlang-specific vocabulary==
>From [http://cassowary.free.fr/Linguistics/Conlang%20Dictionary/ here] and
[http://arthaey.mine.nu/~arthaey/conlang/faq.html here]. See also [[Conlang
terminology]].
con__
* constructed __ (generally a contraction): conlang, conworld, conhistory,
conculture, ...
__lang
* a language characterised by ___ (generally a contraction): conlang, artlang,
auxlang, ...
[[artlang]]
# A language constructed for the beauty or fun of doing so. [From art(istic) +
lang(uage)]
# (See conlang) [From art(ificial) + lang(uage)]
[[auxlang]]
* A language constructed to replace or complement natlangs to facilitate
cross-linguistic communication. [From aux(iliary) + lang(uage)]
concultural [From con(structed) + cultur(e) + al]
* Adjective form of "conculture".
[[conculture]] [From con(structed) + culture]
* A fictional culture created as a backdrop to a conlang. See also "conworld".
[[conlang]] [From con(structed) + lang(uage)]
# n. A constructed language
# v. To construct a language
[[CONLANG]] (all caps), conlang-l, Conlang-L, or CONLANG-L
* A very active conlang mailing list hosted by brown.edu, and currently
operated by Henrik Theiling
[[conworld]] [From con(structed) + world]
* A fictional world created to host a conlang or conculture. See also
"conculture".
[[engelang]] /ˈendʒlæŋ/ [From eng(ineered) + lang(uage)]
* A conlang that is designed to certain criteria, such that it is objectively
testable whether the criteria are met or not. This is different from claiming
that the criteria themselves are 'objective'. For example, the Lojban/Loglan
roots are designed to be maximally recognisable to the speakers of the
(numerically) largest languages in the world in proportion to the number of
speakers. It is not a matter of taste whether this criterion is met; it is
something that can be tested. (by John Cowan) [From eng(ineered) + lang(uage)]
etabnannery /raːmnænəɹi/ (rare)
* The state of appearing entirely unpredictable, but, upon closer analysis,
failing at even being that. [From Etá̄bnann(i), a conlang by Tristan McLeay,
which was supposed to have an unpredictable orthography, but ended up just
having a confusing one. Damn people trying to make patterns everywhere. At
least it's a bugger to typeset!... errm... back to the derivation + -ery]
maggelity /məˈgɛlɪti/ (rare) [From Maggel, a conlang by Christophe
Grandsire which has a rarely predictable orthography]
# The state of being entirely unpredictable. (Tristan McLeay)
# The state of being regularly unpredictable, such as to horribly confuse
anyone unfamiliar with the language, lulling them into a full sense of
security before pointing out, cartoon-character-style, that the ground no
longer exists where they're standing. (Tristan McLeay and H. S. Teoh)
Maggel's Paradox (rare)
* Your radical ideas have already occurred to others. (Muke Tever)
[[natlang]] [From nat(ural) + lang(uage)]
# A natural language, i.e., one that naturally developed in the world, as
opposed to a conlang.
ObConlang (or ObCL)
* Just before something about conlanging in an otherwise off-topic post.
* From ob(ligatory) + conlang (i.e., an obligatory on-topic comment about
conlangs just so that the post isn't completely off-topic).
[[translation relay]]
* A game similar to Telephone or Chinese Whispers, wherein the participants
translate a passage one at a time, in serial, into their own languages - and
then marvel at how far from the original the translations have gotten.
==CXS (Conlang X-SAMPA)==
[[CXS]] is a version of X-SAMPA for use on the CONLANG mailing list. X-SAMPA
is a way to write the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) using normal
plain-ASCII text that everyone can read.
* [http://www.theiling.de/ipa/ Theiling Online: Conlang X-Sampa (CXS)] -
includes CXS-to-IPA conversion chart
* [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Conlang/Appendix/CXS CXS at Wikibooks]
==Related lists==
The Auxlang list, mentioned above, is dedicated to international auxiliary
languages. Its archives and subscription interface are at
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/auxlang.html .
The list re...@calcifer.valdyas.org is dedicated to the planning and
conducting of [[conlang relay]]s, q.v.
==Resources==
* [http://www.arthaey.com/conlang/faq.html Arthaey's Conlang FAQ]
* [http://www.langmaker.com LangMaker] - repository of many conlang
"biographies"
* [http://wiki.frath.net Frath Wiki] - a similar site, and host of the
Conlang-L (wikified) FAQ
* [http://www.omniglot.com Omniglot] - which has information on more writing
systems than you thought could exist
[[Category:Conlanging culture]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
Messages in this topic (26)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
6. ¡Hasta luego!
Posted by: "R A Brown" r...@carolandray.plus.com
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:42 pm ((PDT))
Salvete omnes!
Happy Kalends!
Just to let you know that I'm shortly off to Spain for a
couple of weeks and have gone nomail.
Will be back later this month - we return five days after
the Ides ;)
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]
Messages in this topic (1)
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