Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Solar Designer
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 06:06:45PM +1300, Peter Gutmann wrote: > Solar Designer writes: > > >Here are some examples of 512-bit RSA keys factored: > > Right, but that doesn't say anything about what happened here. [...] Sure. I was not arguing with you, but rather I thought I'd provide some mor

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Solar Designer writes: >Here are some examples of 512-bit RSA keys factored: Right, but that doesn't say anything about what happened here. In every other case we know of in which malware has been signed by CA-issued certs, the keys were either stolen or, more rarely, bought using stolen cred

Re: [cryptography] 512-bit certs used in attack

2011-11-27 Thread Marsh Ray
On 11/27/2011 09:57 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote: That's an example of *claims* of 512-bit keys being factored, with the thinking being "everyone knows 512-bit keys are weak, the certs used 512-bit keys, therefore they must have got them by factoring". Yeah. It seems like an important point. http:/

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Solar Designer
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 04:57:03PM +1300, Peter Gutmann wrote: > Marsh Ray writes: > > >* Here's an example of RSA-512 certificates being factored and used to sign > >malware: > >http://blog.fox-it.com/2011/11/21/rsa-512-certificates-abused-in-the-wild/ > > That's an example of *claims* of 512-b

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Steven Bellovin writes: >Does anyone know of any (verifiable) examples of non-government enemies >exploiting flaws in cryptography? Could you be a bit more precise about what "flaws in cryptography" covers? If you mean exploiting bad or incorrect implementations of crypto then there's so much

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Marsh Ray writes: >* Here's an example of RSA-512 certificates being factored and used to sign >malware: >http://blog.fox-it.com/2011/11/21/rsa-512-certificates-abused-in-the-wild/ That's an example of *claims* of 512-bit keys being factored, with the thinking being "everyone knows 512-bit keys

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Landon Hurley writes: >So would the recent $200 hardware break of hdmi encryption. HDCP was a social, political, and economic fail, not necessarily a crypto fail. I certainly don't want to denigrate the work that the guys the the Ruhr Uni did, but you've been able to buy commercial HDCP stripper

Re: [cryptography] Declassified NSA Tech Journals

2011-11-27 Thread Peter Gutmann
Particularly interesting is "Some Principles of Cryptographic Security - Summer 1974 - Vol. XIX, No. 3", sort of an updated/revisited version of the oft-quoted Kerckhoffs's principles. Peter. ___ cryptography mailing list cryptography@randombit.net http

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Sandy Harris
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:10 AM, Steven Bellovin wrote: > Does anyone know of any (verifiable) examples of non-government enemies > exploiting flaws in cryptography?  I'm looking for real-world attacks on > short key lengths, bad ciphers, faulty protocols, etc., by parties other > than governments

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Solar Designer
On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:14:48PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote: > ... attacks on malware encryption schemes by the AV industry. A curious example of this is poor crypto in the original Back Orifice, where, if I recall correctly, some IDS products would try to crack the encryption key in real time

Re: [cryptography] Auditable CAs

2011-11-27 Thread Ben Laurie
On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Tom Ritter wrote: > So my biggest question is what defines a "publically visible > certificate"?  Of course every certificate gmail uses would be > public... but what about the cert that corresponds to the new product > google is launching that's in beta for a few

Re: [cryptography] Auditable CAs

2011-11-27 Thread Tom Ritter
So my biggest question is what defines a "publically visible certificate"? Of course every certificate gmail uses would be public... but what about the cert that corresponds to the new product google is launching that's in beta for a few users? That cert should be published... but then that lets

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Tom Ritter
On 27 November 2011 20:10, Steven Bellovin wrote: > Does anyone know of any (verifiable) examples of non-government enemies > exploiting flaws in cryptography?  I'm looking for real-world attacks on > short key lengths, bad ciphers, faulty protocols, etc., by parties other > than governments and m

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Florian Weimer
* Steven Bellovin: > Does anyone know of any (verifiable) examples of non-government enemies > exploiting flaws in cryptography? DeCSS and subsequent DRM failures (including modchips), L0phtcrack, the IMSI catcher*, some Elcomsoft products (particularly those better than brute force), attacks on

Re: [cryptography] Declassified NSA Tech Journals

2011-11-27 Thread lodewijk andré de la porte
Personally, I think it's hilarious the "Extraterrestial Intelligence" parts, about "how would other races try to contact us" haven't changed AT ALL since then and this actually had some orgininal ideas. Like the "controlled neutron bursts" for communication, that's actually extra usefull because th

[cryptography] Auditable CAs

2011-11-27 Thread Ben Laurie
Given the recent discussion on Sovereign Keys I thought people might be interested in a related, but less ambitious, idea Adam Langley and I have been kicking around: http://www.links.org/files/CertificateAuthorityTransparencyandAuditability.pdf. ___ cryp

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Marsh Ray
Steven Bellovin wrote: Does anyone know of any (verifiable) examples of non-government enemies exploiting flaws in cryptography? I'm looking for real-world attacks on short key lengths, bad ciphers, faulty protocols, etc., by parties other than governments and militaries. I'm not interested in

Re: [cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Landon Hurley
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 GSM and the Kaos club expert would be a good example. So would the recent $200 hardware break of hdmi encryption. Steven Bellovin wrote: >Does anyone know of any (verifiable) examples of non-government enemies >exploiting flaws in cryptography?

[cryptography] Non-governmental exploitation of crypto flaws?

2011-11-27 Thread Steven Bellovin
Does anyone know of any (verifiable) examples of non-government enemies exploiting flaws in cryptography? I'm looking for real-world attacks on short key lengths, bad ciphers, faulty protocols, etc., by parties other than governments and militaries. I'm not interested in academic attacks -- I wan

[cryptography] Declassified NSA Tech Journals

2011-11-27 Thread Marsh Ray
Came across this on Reddit: Declassified NSA Tech Journals http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/declass/tech_journals.shtml It all looks so interesting it's hard to know where to start. - Marsh * Emergency Destruction of Documents - April 1956 - Vol. I, No. 1 * Development of Automatic Telegraph Sw

Re: [cryptography] fyi: Sovereign Keys: an EFF proposal for more secure TLS authentication

2011-11-27 Thread Jeffrey Walton
On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Adam Back wrote: > Yes, its the way I would've done it.  Actually coincidentally I already did > propose doing it exactly that way in around 1999: > > http://www.cypherspace.org/p2p/auditable-namespace.html > > (That was about censor resistant DNS->ip mapping with

Re: [cryptography] fyi: Sovereign Keys: an EFF proposal for more secure TLS authentication

2011-11-27 Thread Adam Back
Yes, its the way I would've done it. Actually coincidentally I already did propose doing it exactly that way in around 1999: http://www.cypherspace.org/p2p/auditable-namespace.html (That was about censor resistant DNS->ip mapping with public auditability. And that might still be something to t