Re: [cryptography] rolling hashes, EDC/ECC vs MAC/MIC, etc.

2011-05-21 Thread Nico Williams
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Zooko O'Whielacronx wrote: > What I would most want is for ZFS (and every other filesystem) to > maintain a Merkle Tree over the file data with a good secure hash. Me too. ZFS does do that, but unfortunately the internal Merkel hash maintained this way also has m

Re: [cryptography] rolling hashes, EDC/ECC vs MAC/MIC, etc.

2011-05-21 Thread Nico Williams
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 2:53 AM, wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 05:18:16PM -0500, Nico Williams wrote: >> A function with >> that property isn't a hash function. > > How do you figure? Well, to be fair, a rolling hash is a hash function, proper. It may well not be what we'd call a cryptographi

Re: [cryptography] rolling hashes, EDC/ECC vs MAC/MIC, etc.

2011-05-21 Thread Zooko O'Whielacronx
Dear Nico Williams: Thanks for the reference! Very cool. What I would most want is for ZFS (and every other filesystem) to maintain a Merkle Tree over the file data with a good secure hash. Whenever a change to a file is made, the filesystem can update the Merkle Tree this with mere O(log(N)) wor

Re: [cryptography] rolling hashes, EDC/ECC vs MAC/MIC, etc.

2011-05-21 Thread Steven Bellovin
On May 21, 2011, at 3:53 47AM, travis+ml-rbcryptogra...@subspacefield.org wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 05:18:16PM -0500, Nico Williams wrote: >>> I wonder if A/V shouldn't use something similar? >> >> The rsync rolling CRC is useful for detecting insertions an deletions >> -- i.e., remote di

Re: [cryptography] rolling hashes, EDC/ECC vs MAC/MIC, etc.

2011-05-21 Thread travis+ml-rbcryptography
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 05:18:16PM -0500, Nico Williams wrote: > > I wonder if A/V shouldn't use something similar? > > The rsync rolling CRC is useful for detecting insertions an deletions > -- i.e., remote diff. Right, but right now some anti-virus does hashes over the whole file, or so I've he

Re: [cryptography] rolling hashes, EDC/ECC vs MAC/MIC, etc.

2011-05-20 Thread Nico Williams
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 4:30 PM, wrote: > Just a quick thought, I noticed the other day that rsync uses a > "rolling MD4 hash" or something like that to detect changes in a > window of data. A quick look around should tell you that it uses a "rolling checksum" and a hash function. MD4 is one suc

Re: [cryptography] rolling hashes, EDC/ECC vs MAC/MIC, etc.

2011-05-20 Thread Zooko O'Whielacronx
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:30 PM, wrote: > > I wonder if A/V shouldn't use something similar? What's A/V? > I assume MD4 is an outdated choice - perhaps some cryppie needs to > design a hash function that is specifically designed for a FIFO kind > of window?  Maybe there is and I'm just out of th

[cryptography] rolling hashes, EDC/ECC vs MAC/MIC, etc.

2011-05-20 Thread travis+ml-rbcryptography
Hmm, after sending this to some of you I remembered this list :-) Just a quick thought, I noticed the other day that rsync uses a "rolling MD4 hash" or something like that to detect changes in a window of data. I wonder if A/V shouldn't use something similar? I assume MD4 is an outdated ch