-Caveat Lector- > all the enemies in the world and all the world's enemy > > [Note http://www.emperors-clothes.com encourages everyone to distribute the > following in any way possible but please include the entire text including this > note.] > > Diana Johnstone on what NATO and the U.S in particular has wrought and its > consequences, including comments on East Timor. > > Jared: I just spoke to Ben Works.I wanted to interview you too. On East Timor. > > Diana: Oh oh oh! > > Jared: That's a great beginning. Your opinion is important on this because you > raised the whole question of the new Crusade, the 'Humanitarian Trigger.' (1) . > And the question is, liberals are clamoring for some kind of intervention in > Timor. And I'm suspicious. How do you feel? > > Diana: And I am too. That's why I said 'oh oh oh.' What a mess. I think that one > of the problems is precisely the 'humanitarian' intervention in Kosovo that was > supposed to be an example to the world to show that we had this New World Order > where from now on self-determination was going to be enforced by the righteous > missiles of the United States. It's going to have a backlash effect. Countries > around the world are going to smash their minorities preemptively, to keep the > U.S. from coming in. Indonesia is a very spread out, multi-national society with > lots of possibilities of separatist movements. > > I want to point out, the case of East Timor is completely different from Kosovo. > East Timor was never a part of Indonesia. It was invaded after the Portuguese > let it go. It was part of this de-colonization mess, the same way the Southern > Sahara is part of it, only then it was Spain; Spain let the colony go in an > irresponsible way that allowed Morocco to grab it. That led to this long, still > unresolved conflict. In Indonesia, Portugal let East Timor go without a proper > transition which allowed Indonesia to grab it but that has never been recognized > internationally. Indonesia has no historic or legal right to be there, whereas > Kosovo is a part of Serbia, which was recognized; it's always been. > > But the problem remains. There a lot of countries in the world with minorities > that are very alarmed by this new American policy. Governments are going to > smash their minorities to avoid the sort of situation where everybody will be > clamoring for independence and self-determination with the idea that the United > States will help them. > > That doesn't answer the question what to do now. I don't really know. You've got > these bands in there who are doing what we accused the Serbs of doing, only they > weren't. The Indonesian Military has a long record of that - > > Jared: Starting with murdering the Communists and the ethnic Chinese - vast > numbers - > > Diana: I think probably the largest slaughter since WWII. An unbelievably huge > massacre plus people whom they didn't massacre they put in prison forever. So > they totally wiped out the Communists, the left in Indonesia; it's been a > dictatorship ever since, 'our ' kind of dictatorship, etc. Now it's falling > apart. > > And probably the Army, which has been the authority holding it together, is > afraid that the United States, having supported them all this time, now that > they are in economic difficulty, political difficulty, isn't going to support > them anymore and might support a whole lot of separatist movements since that > seems to be the trend. All of Asia, you see, except the country we like to > quote, which is Singapore, because that's our great ally out there - all of Asia > has been quite appalled by the NATO aggression in Kosovo and fears that > something like this is in store for all of them. Because everybody has got > minorities somewhere that can be supported as a pretext for going in, you see. > Now I don't think that's actually the case in Timor. I think it's somewhat > different. However, the danger of announcing these great principles that are in > fact not great principles at all but simply a pretext to go into one place which > is strategically interesting namely the Balkans - that's the only place the > United States wanted to go into right now, I mean later they might want to go > into the Ukraine, Azerbaijan - they're interested in places that have oil > reserves and so on - but this issue has nothing to do with great principles but > of course they call on these great principles when they want to occupy a > particular territory as they wanted to occupy Kosovo and set up NATO bases > there. They don’t want to set up NATO bases right now in East Timor, but they > might later in someplace else around there, Sumatra or someplace else. I think > in fact, with this Kosovo action the United States has initiated a long series > of bloody wars. On the one hand encouraging minorities to think they can get > some kind of self determination and on the other encouraging the states who > don’t want that to massacre the people who might ask for self-determination. > > Jared: The Portuguese seem very anxious to intervene directly. > > Diana: Well of course. East Timor was let go when they had this anti-colonialist > revolution in Portugal, that's what brought it about. Because the military was > tired of fighting colonial wars and made the revolution in Portugal to get rid > of the Salazar dictatorship. It was soldiers who'd been sent to fight in > colonies who became sympathetic with the revolutionaries who made that > revolution. So they let the colonies go but they were being sabotaged all along > the way, of course. In Africa it's notorious because all of the right wing of > South Africa, intelligence services of all kinds backed UNITA in order to wreck > Angola, they invented UNITA. East Timor was too far away to be terribly > interesting to anybody. But now times have changed in Portugal. It probably > could use the influence again because we no longer have the left wing regime > that freed the colonies. You know I hesitate to speak too much on this because > the fact is I'm not an expert on East Timor. > > Jared: But your perspective is quite interesting. > > Diana: This is a particularly delicate one because everyone has been asking for > this election. Of course one thing this should point out is that elections are > being regarded as some sort of magical ritual that are going to solve problems > stemming from the relationship of forces in various countries, and they don't. > I'm sorry to point that out. They sent in observers but the observers afterwards > are being driven out and killed. There is an awful lot of - I don't want to > insult anybody but - > > Jared:. Insult them. Please. > > Diana: - naivete. What did Ben Works have to say? > > Jared: He said the United States had mishandled the situation. He said people > who should have had not talked to the military about controlling the situation > if there was an election. He said President Habibe was very much weakened. He > said the military is afraid that the U.S. or the West has designs on the area, > wants to break it up into little bite-sized pieces - > > Diana: I do want to repeat that the case of East TImor is different from others > because of the fact that this was not a part of Indonesia. But one thing that is > perfectly clear is that the style of our State Department with Mrs. Albright > there is anything but diplomatic. This style of the United States going around > lecturing people, telling them what to do, threatening them, is absolutely the > opposite of the kind of diplomacy that is needed in almost any difficult > situation. > > Jared: Yeah About a year ago, Gore wrecked the Asian economic conference. He > disrupted dinner and walked out after calling for street demonstrations in > Malaysia to overthrow the Prime Minister because he didn't like the fact that > they had locked out Western financial - > > Diana: That's become their whole style. This may have something to do with the > media. This 'we've gotta be tough' style of the United States throwing its > weight around in a very moralistic way. I mean this is going to make us all the > enemies in the world and all the world's enemy; and rightly so, because > anywhere, and particularly in Asia, if you are going to be helpful to any kind > of conflict you have to understand the points of view of the different parties > and not simply view them as people who can be bribed by a carrot or beaten with > a stick - > > Jared: You're right. People have national sensibilities. > > Diana: A complete absence of diplomacy. And you've got this chorus of moralistic > columnists, always egging them on: the US has got to act tough, it's got to act > moral. And if anybody attempts subtlety they'll be lynched in the media. They > would feel that would be Munich or something. You have all of these little > slogans you know. > > You know, there's a timing in all this. Indonesia is suffering from a terrible > economic meltdown. One of the NY Times columnists said happily: "Well that's > good for them. They didn't have the right kind of capitalism so this will show > them." So you've got millions of Indonesians with no jobs, no money, nothing. > Actually a lot of Indonesia is split over this. There's been an inconclusive > election. The country is in a traumatic situation. The prosperity has collapsed. > The timing is terrible. The timing for East Timor comes right after the economic > collapse in Indonesia and then the Kosovo thing. And all of that is designed to > cause very bad psychological reactions. I am a bit uncomfortable talking about > this, because I am not an expert on East Timor and Indonesia. When I talk about > Yugoslavia I know a lot, and I may be missing some important points in this > case, but one thing does seem to me clear: this is exactly a case where you > really needed diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy. Tact. But it does appear the US > government is incapable of that. And then on top of that you have the IMF which > always seems to make matters worse. > > Jared: The IMF makes impoverishment the condition for lending money. > > Diana: As the Bulgarian lady's letter (2) said, they take away the little things > that people have, the right to ride the trains at reduced fare and so on. I > think with this sort of policy you're going to get lots of insanity. And I'm > sure you have massacres going on and you have terrible things going on but you > see the problem with this Humanitarian Left is that they've forgotten all these > things that what used to be the left knew - that you have to have a structure of > society which will create conditions more or less amenable to civilization. We > are breaking all that down so that you are going to have everybody massacring > everybody. Because of the fact that they're starving or they're confused or > they're going crazy. We are really setting up that kind of a situation in many > places. We are destroying people's economies, we're destroying their culture, > we're destroying everything And then afterwards they go berserk and kill each > other. And then we say, "Oh my goodness, how terrible. Should we perhaps send in > our armed forces and kill some more of them?" > > Notes > > 1. See NATO's Humanitarian Trigger > > 2. 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