-Caveat Lector- from: http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.42/pageone.html <A HREF="http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.42/pageone.html">Laissez Faire City Times - Volume 2 Issue 42</A> The Laissez Faire City Times December 14, 1998 - Volume 2, Issue 42 Editor & Chief: Emile Zola ----- The Adventures of Jonathan Gullible: an interview with Ken Schoolland by Alberto Mingardi Ken Schoolland is the author of the free-market bestseller The Adventures of Jonathan Gullible, which has been translated into several languages--including Russian, Dutch, Norwegian, Lithuanian, Romanian and Serbian. The book, which began as a radio series on KHVH in Hawaii, was first published in 1988, received the George Washington Honor Medal in 1990, and was described by Karl Hess (the influential libertarian and former ghost-author of Goldwater's speeches) as "a fine book for promoting free market ideas for young people". A second revised edition of this beautiful free market odyssey became available in 1995. Schoolland completed his graduate studies at Georgetown University, and served as an international economist in the US International Trade Commission, the US Department of Commerce, and the Office of the Special Representative for Trade Negotiations. Leaving government, Scholland began teaching economics. His first book was Shogun's Ghost: The Dark Side of Japanese Education, written after a period in which he taught at Hakodate University, in Japan. He is presently an Associate Professor of Economics and Political Science at Hawaii Pacific University. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ How did you get the idea for your book The Adventures of Jonathan Gullible? And what are the reasons for its success? As an international economist in Washington D.C., I saw the folly of government. Its every action was to get in the way of people who were trying to improve life through the marketplace. So I left government and began to teach economics in Alaska. Eventually I stumbled across the libertarian philosophy which clarified my own thinking and shaped the direction of my teaching. When I moved to Hawaii I began delivering 90 second radio commentaries on a local business station and was a little discouraged that my radical free market ideas were generating no response. I was dating a girl at the time who enjoyed theater and so I prepared a fantasy dialog with her that was patterned after the adventures of a children's book, The Little Prince. I was surprised at the positive response this series had, even among businessmen. Having a good laugh was the best way to hear new ideas. One of these businessmen was Sam Slom, President of Small Business Hawaii, a coalition of 5000 small business owners in Hawaii that is always lobbying for business causes. Sam offered to publish the book as an educational publication of their organization. So I edited the material, found an illustrator, and helped distribute the book. I used it in my university economics classes and the students loved it. Even more surprising was the universality of this approach. It seems that liberals in Common Cause and conservatives in the Christian Coalition were all getting enthused about the book and handing out to their friends. People don't like having ideas crammed down their throats, but they do love ideas that are subtle, thought provoking, and humorous. In your landmarks, you've inserted Lao-Tzu. What's the importance of his thought for libertarianism? My university in Hawaii has students from 91 countries, many of whom are from Asia. It was important to me that these students realize that the ideas of freedom are universal. Indeed, it is fun for my Asian students to know that profound advocates of limited government existed in China long before Adam Smith. Lao Tzu's ideas were probably successful for much the same reason: he was subtle, thought provoking, and even humorous. My libertarian ideas originated from Western thought, but it is fair to say that they were confirmed by Eastern. Speaking a little about Ken Scholland the man, not the writer. How do you approach the basic ideas behind Terra Libertas? In the back of the book I state my philosophy. It rests on the principle of self ownership. To deny that is to accept slavery, that someone else has a claim on your life. This idea has been challenged by both Christian and nihilist friends and relatives--both of whom I respect. In summary, the first group says that you don't own your life, but God does. To which I reply that even God would allow you a choice on that, He doesn't force the decision. The second group says that ownership is a matter of might. To which I reply that a brute is shortsighted, and even self- destructive, to believe that. A life worth pursuing exists so long as there is a distinction between might and right. The debate is endless, but I state my premises. "This idea has been challenged by both Christian and nihilist friends and relatives--both of whom I respect." How can people with such different viewpoints agree on self- responsibility? Alberto, I think the attitude and tolerance of each individual is as significant as their actual philosophy in finding areas of agreement on self-responsibility and many other issues. I've discussed these issues with some very agreeable and some very disagreeable people in both camps-- the latter group is no fun. How do we teach our values to kids despite the State presence in public schools? Laugh at authority. Really! The one thing that every authority figure hates the most is to be laughed at. Being ridiculed is degrading, no matter how powerful one is. It is uncool, and most people want to be cool. The most powerful tool of student prisoners against their state masters is satire and humor. The values emerge by contrast. Living in Hawaii, you perhaps see whales from time to time. Walter Block thinks that we have to privatize them. How would we apply property rights to animals whose intelligence is proven, and who have been on the Earth for millions of years? Well, I'm always open to the discussion on animal rights, but I haven't yet heard the argument that convinces me that other species qualify for protections of life and liberty as [do] humans. Intelligence is not a yes or no thing, it is always a gradation. In the meantime, yes, I think that privatizing whales is the best way to see them preserved, understood, enlarged in numbers, and perhaps even bred for improvement. A good example is the privatization of elephants in Zimbabwe, which led to great increases in numbers and benefit to people, while the state ownership in Kenya led to decimation. Long ago, I read an article about homesteading and ranching the seas as well. Technology now makes it easy to tag and herd whales and tuna. Salmon always graze and return to the same stream of their hatchery--much has been done in Japan and Alaska. Halibut and bottomfish can have property rights determined by territory and homesteading principles. It just requires applying principles that we have long used in two dimensions on land to the three-dimensional waters. How do you see the secessionist movements that are emerging in Europe (sometimes having anti-tax and libertarian elements), as well as the movement for Hawaii's independence? I'm not familiar with the secessionist movements in Europe. The one in Hawaii is very splintered among several activist groups with very different agendas, some even calling for a return of the monarchy, but the largest group [would be] probably satisfied with the status of "nation within a nation" as with all other native Indian groups in America. I favor individual sovereignty, but secession can be positive or negative as a group depending on the respect for individual rights. You were a speaker at Virtual Con 1. What do you think about the Net as a libertarian society ? Libertarians seem to have a much greater representation on the Net than elsewhere. You've dedicated Jonathan Gullible to your daughter and her generation. How old is she? Has she enjoyed the reading of Jonathan's adventures? My daughter is now 8. I tell her the stories on the way to school daily. We talk about it and she seems to be ahead of me when coming to the moral of the story. Once I brought her to my university class when the students were taking a quiz on the book and holding discussion. She got the highest score and always had her hand up for answers even when the rest were silent. I couldn't have been more proud. My parents gave me the seed of the idea on individual liberty and responsibility, but I don't think they bothered to carry the ideas to their consistent and logical conclusions. In other words, it is important to practice what we preach. And my daughter, Kenli, is a constant reminder of that to me. -30- from The Laissez Faire City Times, Vol 2, No 42, Dec. 14, 1998 ----- The Laissez Faire City Times is a private newspaper. Although it is published by a corporation domiciled within the sovereign domain of Laissez Faire City, it is not an "official organ" of the city or its founding trust. Just as the New York Times is unaffiliated with the city of New York, the City Times is only one of what may be several news publications located in, or domiciled at, Laissez Faire City proper. For information about LFC, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Published by Laissez Faire City Netcasting Group, Inc. Copyright 1998 - Trademark Registered with LFC Public Registrar All Rights Reserved ----- Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. 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