Message text written by N J Francis
>
Right or wrong I agree the argument is, in a way, pointless
but if you get into an argument about this with someone in a pub you will
lose for the above reasons. <
Obviously never been in a pub argument with me.
Steve.
Given that my mailbox is at exploding point on this thread,
I will have to end it here.
This is not the forum for talking about whether or not fox
hunting is a good idea, this is for shooters, although I
recognise there is some overlap when it comes to field sports
as many of them require a gun.
From: Adrian, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Up to now its worked. There have been no more massacres with legal
>pistols.
Still using that weak argument Neil?
There is no way you can prove that the pistol ban has prevented a
massacre unless you have solid evidence that without the ban there would
have bee
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> And this is true not only of foxhunting but of the supporters of any
> sport and minority activity when they face criticism. I think that that
> stems from a pig-headed refusal to recognise that civilised societies
> impose rules of behaviour which can not be disregar
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> The essence of the question is: if a wild predatory animal inflicts
>>a certain level of misery upon its prey -- in the process of subduing it, what
>>would you deem to be onerous when a human is conducting the same act?
>
>Oh please - there is a
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Richard:
[...]
A. Because the chasing of a fox by hounds is not the act of a "wild
predatory" animal but the use of domestic animals selectively bred by human
beings (since the days of Hugo Meynell) for pleasure in seeing hounds "work"
u under the skilled
From: N J Francis, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Simply because people _want_ something banned is never a particularly
> good reason to ban something. There must be a _reason_ to ban it.
>
> As the handgun ban amptly demonstrated. There was no sensible reason
> to ban them so not surprisingly it didn'
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Why have you never ridden?
Because a serious accident I was involved in years ago has
left me incapable of sitting with my back unsupported for
anything
more than a few minutes without debilitating pain. Whether it's
a
saddle, a stool or a bale of st
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> The people that oppose hunting foxes with dogs in this country do so
> because it is basically a sport. Their objection is that killing animals in
> a sporting or gaming environment for fun is something that high order
> civilized societies should not partake in.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >a) Just because you find something distasteful is not a good
> >enough reason to prevent other people who happen to enjoy that
> >activity from engaging in it.
>
> But if - say - 70% of the country find it distasteful - does it become
> reasonable to look at prevent
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Neil Francis, INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
In short you are treating the people who oppose you like idiots and they
fight harder
because of it.
__
And this is true not only of foxhunting but of the supporters of any
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Steve,
In response to email written by Richard Loweth about justification of
foxhunting, you wrote:-
--
My response to all arguments against hunting no matter how reasoned
is that most people don't reason, in fact most people don't care,
except the hun
From: "matthew.wright7", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re. Richard and Neils comments:
>Why do the scruffy ordinary Joes always following on foot or in >their
cars. Why are the scruffy ordinary Joes never riding to >the hounds? I put
it to you the scruffy ordinary Joes would >soon go find something else t
From: Neil Francis, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>As over 75% of people in the UK cannot stand the silly game of Foot Ball
Completely and utterly incorrect. You have just made this statistic up
haven't you?
-
Neil Francis
Trowbridge, UK
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cybersh
From: "Chris Lloyd", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
As over 75% of people in the UK cannot stand the silly game of Foot Ball I
say lets ban it so they can do something more useful an Saturdays. Chris.
Chris Lloyd ICQ no.44575318
Wessex Ferret Club www.wfc.cwc.net
Cybershooters website: http://
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Q. The essence of the question is: if a wild predatory animal inflicts
a certain level of misery upon its prey -- in the process of subduing it,
what
would you deem to be onerous when a human is conducting the same act?
A. Because the chasing of a fox b
From: Neil Francis, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> The essence of the question is: if a wild predatory animal inflicts
>a certain level of misery upon its prey -- in the process of subduing it, what
>would you deem to be onerous when a human is conducting the same act?
Oh please - there is a mass
From: Neil Francis, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>a) Just because you find something distasteful is not a good
>enough reason to prevent other people who happen to enjoy that
>activity from engaging in it.
But if - say - 70% of the country find it distasteful - does it become
reasonable to look at preve
From: "rastech", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> any of the other legal methods of control.) It's because some people
> are revolted by the fact that other people go hunting for
> enjoyment, and also because it's still perceived to be the sole preserve
of
> the idle rich and it's a good way of indulging in
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>If hunting is not cruel, why then am I prosecuted if I set a pack of large
>dogs onto a smaller, solitary dog? All that the Hunting Bill really can be
>said to be doing is simply extending to wild mammals the protection that
>domestic mammals have enjoyed
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> any of the other legal methods of control.) It's because some
people
> are revolted by the fact that other people go hunting for
> enjoyment, and also because it's still perceived to be the
sole preserve of
> the idle rich and it's a good way of indu
From: Margarita Booker, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From: "Richard Loweth", INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What you fail to understand that the bill is against hunting with dogs apposed
to hunting with hounds. Lets face it once the bill becomes law it will be used
to stop using dogs in the field
M
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Make no mistake if, as some wrongly predict, the spotlight then turns on
> game shooting and deer stalking...
Oh yes it will, as sure as Eggs is Eggs it will.
We all know very well how the "bannit" brigade operate,
they aren't happy unless they are out ther
From: N J Francis, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> any of the other legal methods of control.) It's because some people
> are revolted by the fact that other people go hunting for
> enjoyment, and also because it's still perceived to be the sole preserve of
> the idle rich and it's a good way of indul
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The move to ban hunting with hounds is purely about the perception of hunting
as an elitist, upper-class pastime enjoyed by the well-off.
If Mr Loweth got around a little more he would see that shooting live quarry
is perceived in exactly the same way as hunting
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If hunting is not cruel, why then am I prosecuted if I set a pack of large
dogs onto a smaller, solitary dog? All that the Hunting Bill really can be
said to be doing is simply extending to wild mammals the protection that
domestic mammals have enj
From: David Chappell - UK, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Like a lot of people, I enjoy the quotes often posted here.
I have kept just about all of them.
Whilst going through them, I came upon this little gem that I
had forgotton, it might make a nice poster:
"We are peaceful people; we ask only
From: "Derek Bernard", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>I can believe that once the dogs actually catch the fox,
>it'll be finished off quickly, but the chase itself has to
>be extremely stressful. Cage traps don't strike me as any
>better either, possibly worse.
>Stuart Heal
I am not a hunter an
From: "matthew.wright7", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Stuart, while I can see your personal views and your personal choice to stay
at home the day of the March, I would counter some of the assertions in your
post. Firstly you tend to stereotype hunting and references to not wanting
to ride and fallin
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is anyone aware of any coaches going to the march from the Merseyside area?
Brian T
--
Phone them on their "hotline". I think that's one of the reasons
for it! www.march-info.org
Steve.
Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.o
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
That's what I think, anyway. I could be wrong (it does
happen occasionally), but I have to do what I think is right,
even if everyone else seems to disagree(including people who
I respect). If anyone would like to post any counter-arguments
I'l
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I didn't intend to start a debate on the pros and cons
of fox-hunting when I happened to mention that I'm not
going to the Countryside Alliance march, but since one
started up anyway, I suppose I owe some of you a reply. I
would have replied before, but I've had a
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>What's the plan for the 19th March and subsequent days? If we go back to
>our long established internecine feuding, throwing sections of the sport to
>the wolves in a vain attempt to appease the antis, refusing to accept that
>so far as some are con
From: Pete Ansbro, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> I have a letter from the Met somewhere saying it is illegal to
> carry placards on sticks because they are "offensive weapons"
> or something like that.
>
> Steve.
>
I suppose a placard similar in silhouette to a gun (any variety) and
carrie
From: "Tim Jeffreys", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>I am also wondering whether this T-shirt idea is such a great one, middle
of March isn't going to be that warm, unless we wear them over the
top of something.<
Printed tabards might be an easy answer - two double bits of Velcro and a
rectangle of
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> It's not too hard to make up a tee-shirt transfer with whatever
message you
> want and wear it on the day.
> Mine reads; Front:' We're living in Blair's Banned-it Country' and on
the
> rear lists various things which New Labour have either done away with
or
>
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We're not allowed to have placards, it will have to
be T-shirts or hats (or shopping bags ).
Steve.
According to the March Guide, not only that we shall be allowed banners
and placards, but the organi
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Why don't we have TWO placards? :-o
>I always think that rows and rows of identical messages in a demo smacks
>of ideas being issued instead of being spontaneous.
>Start a list, both ideas are excellent.
>See you all in London
>Ken
>--
>We're no
From: "jim.craig", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OK so let's assume that the march in March is, in terms of numbers, the
biggest success possible. A quarter of a million people attend (half a
million if you like) and even the tabloid press concede that we are the best
behaved supporters in the land.
From: "Mike Burns", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think you can have a placard without a stick, provided it
is not mounted on anything hard, so a piece of cardboard
should be okay. I'm not sure exactly at what point they
consider it to be a potential weapon.
Steve.
Is this a general rul
From: "Neil Roberts", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We're not allowed to have placards, it will have to
be T-shirts or hats (or shopping bags ).
Steve.
How about thick card strapped to one arm like a shield
with the message on
Neil
--
I think you
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The idea of T-Shirts with messages reminds me of the, true it is said, story
of the famous shoot where the beaters were given smocks with letters on to
wear so that the beating line could be kept "gapless". The story goes that
the beaters took grea
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am still amazed that the idea exists - from the proposed T-Shirt - that it
was "New Labour" that banned handguns! Just to remind everybody, again, it
was John Major's Conservative Government that banned handguns.
--
It doesn't make the T-shirt i
From: Kenneth Wyatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why don't we have TWO placards? :-o
I always think that rows and rows of identical messages in a demo smacks
of ideas being issued instead of being spontaneous.
Start a list, both ideas are excellent.
See you all in London
Ken
--
We're not allow
From: "jim.craig", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It's not too hard to make up a tee-shirt transfer with whatever message you
want and wear it on the day.
Mine reads; Front:' We're living in Blair's Banned-it Country' and on the
rear lists various things which New Labour have either done away with or
From: Pete Ansbro, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It's just a thought, but has anyone considered the idea of a placard
along the lines of "UK Shooters on the net - www.cybershooters.org"?
A simple poster design lodged on the net (for downloading and sticking
to a suitable card on a stick) would perh
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I appreciate that everyone probably knows about the March on
the 18th March & the debates for and against it (Lack of support
in 1997 being one)
Yes, I did borrow this information from the Sportsman's
association Website, to send to my friends as an ema
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