ED]
X-Orig-To: Adam Shostack
Cc: John Kelsey; Shawn K. Quinn; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Brinworld] Car's data recorder convicts driver
> Just wait 'till they integrate GPS, and GPRS or 802.11.
Transmitter is easy to find. Receiver is easy to jam with a micropower
jammer. Sometimes
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 06:15 PM, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, jburnes wrote:
Why go to all that trouble. Just take it out of circuit. Cut the
printed circuit
board leads and disable it or if its in an inaccessible black box, cut
the
leads to the box.
Easy enough.
Works v
Googling on ("event data recorders" automobiles) will give a lot
of hits.
For example:
http://wpoplin.com/EventDataRecordersAutomotiveBlackBoxes.pdf
These devices are a byproduct of the introduction of
airbags - the airbag processor stores the data which led it to
deploy the bag.
This can inclu
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, jburnes wrote:
> Why go to all that trouble. Just take it out of circuit. Cut the
> printed circuit
> board leads and disable it or if its in an inaccessible black box, cut
> the
> leads to the box.
>
> Easy enough.
Works very nicely. :)
Problem: leaves evidence, and takes
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 09:11:58AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
| On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 05:17 AM, Adam Shostack wrote:
| >
| >I wasn't arguing, I was quipping.
| >
| >I find the many meanings of the word privacy to be fascinating. So
| >when someone commented that the car's tattle-box is or is
On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Tim May wrote:
> Unlikely. Getting juice into the innards of a box in a way so as to
> overwrite data is not nearly so simply as applying sparky things to the
> outside of the box. Lots of reasons for this.
The idea wasn't about overwriting the data. The idea was about frying
At 11:45 2003-06-18 -0500, Jamie Lawrence wrote:
Anonymity (strong or not) is vastly important to secrecy.
Medical data is a great example of this. It may be private, for some
(weak) values of private, right now. Being John Doe at the doctor's
office and paying cash, though, is vastly better in t
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Steve Schear wrote:
> Indeed 'privacy' and 'secrecy' are often confused and their meanings
> overlap in many a mind. I think that most, at least in the West, accept
> that privacy "..is based on rules and trust," for example, records kept on
> us by our doctors. Because e
At 08:17 2003-06-18 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote:
| It never makes sense to argue about a "right to lie" or a "right to
| tell the truth." One man's lie is another man's truth. And even
| _asking_ for a true response is usually an overstepping, as it presumes
| the asker knows what is true and what i
On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 05:17 AM, Adam Shostack wrote:
I wasn't arguing, I was quipping.
I find the many meanings of the word privacy to be fascinating. So
when someone commented that the car's tattle-box is or isn't a privacy
invasion, I thought I'd offer up a definition under which it
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Adam Shostack wrote:
> I wasn't arguing, I was quipping.
>
> I find the many meanings of the word privacy to be fascinating. So
> when someone commented that the car's tattle-box is or isn't a privacy
> invasion, I thought I'd offer up a definition under which it is.
> Its a
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:58:56AM -0400, John Kelsey wrote:
| At 06:29 AM 6/17/03 +0159, Anonymous wrote:
| >Adam Shostack wrote:
| >
| >> PS: Bob Blakely once defined privacy as the right to lie and get away
| >> with it, which fits into some of what many people mean by privacy.
| >
| >So privacy
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 03:48 PM, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Steve Schear wrote:
Seems like a market for "open source" EDRs could be a good one. A
user
accessible reset button could come in handy.
Could a stun gun help?
Unlikely. Getting juice into the innards of a box i
At 06:29 AM 6/17/03 +0159, Anonymous wrote:
Adam Shostack wrote:
> PS: Bob Blakely once defined privacy as the right to lie and get away
> with it, which fits into some of what many people mean by privacy.
So privacy is only of value to the dishonest? I don't think so!
I post anonymously, but not
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 03:48 PM, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
Adam
PS: Bob Blakely once defined privacy as the right to lie and get away
with it, which fits into some of what many people mean by privacy.
Another possible definition is the right to tell the truth and get away
with it.
But both d
On Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 09:30:35PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
| On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 03:48 PM, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
| >
| >>Adam
| >>
| >>PS: Bob Blakely once defined privacy as the right to lie and get away
| >>with it, which fits into some of what many people mean by privacy.
| >
| >Anothe
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Steve Schear wrote:
> Seems like a market for "open source" EDRs could be a good one. A user
> accessible reset button could come in handy.
Could a stun gun help?
> Just wait 'till they integrate GPS, and GPRS or 802.11.
Transmitter is easy to find. Receiver is easy to jam with a micropower
jammer. Sometimes all you need could just be creatively tweaking the
ignition and antenna wiring to get "faulty shielding" in the right places;
it requires much more exp
Adam Shostack wrote:
> PS: Bob Blakely once defined privacy as the right to lie and get away
> with it, which fits into some of what many people mean by privacy.
So privacy is only of value to the dishonest? I don't think so!
I post anonymously, but not to lie.
On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 05:11:57PM -0400, John Kelsey wrote:
| At 11:16 AM 6/16/03 -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
| ...
| >I personally find the privacy implications of EDRs rather unsettling.
| >This story doesn't change that one bit. However, in this particular
| >case, I don't think what the EDR s
At 11:16 AM 6/16/03 -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
..
I personally find the privacy implications of EDRs rather unsettling.
This story doesn't change that one bit. However, in this particular
case, I don't think what the EDR said really matters. The three
paragraphs from the story say a lot about wha
On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 05:11:57PM -0400, John Kelsey wrote:
...
> It seems intuitively like the EDR ought to be about as valuable to the
> defense as the prosecution, right? E.g., the prosecutor says "this guy was
> driving 120 miles an hour down the road while being pursued by the police,"
>
Seems like a market for "open source" EDRs could be a good one. A user
accessible reset button could come in handy.
steve
> Now, I don't know how subpeoned phone or other
> electronic records are handled ---has anyone ever
> questioned Telco's or paging company recordkeeping?
> Any readers know more?
I work as a programmer at a company that writes software to handle
switch functions and bill cellular and gsm custome
At 11:16 AM 6/16/03 -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
>On Monday June 16 2003 09:59, Major Variola (ret.) wrote:
>> (ok, from slashdot..)
>> http://www.newhouse.com/archive/jensen061203.html
>
>I personally find the privacy implications of EDRs rather unsettling.
>This story doesn't change that one bit.
On Monday June 16 2003 09:59, Major Variola (ret.) wrote:
> (ok, from slashdot..)
> http://www.newhouse.com/archive/jensen061203.html
I personally find the privacy implications of EDRs rather unsettling.
This story doesn't change that one bit. However, in this particular
case, I don't think what
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