Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

James A. Donald wrote: -- ken wrote: And when was this stagnation? R.A. Hettinga wrote: Two words: Ming Navy For those who need more words, the Qing Dynasty forbade ownership or building of ocean going vessels, on pain of death - the early equivalent of the iron curtain. Which was a couple

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

-- Tyler Durden > To say that China was "despotic" would, on average, be > accurate. But then again, one must remember that a form of > despotism where the despots are months away is very different > from modern forms of despotism. But the despots are still months away. The joke used to be

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

-- On 12 Nov 2004 at 14:29, Tyler Durden wrote: > OK, Mr Donald. You clearly imagine the China of 2,500 years > ago to operate like a modern 20th century nation-state. You > need to rethink this, given a few simple facts: My delusion is evidently widely shared: I did a google search for le

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

-- On 12 Nov 2004 at 15:08, Tyler Durden wrote: > The Qing were 1) Manchus (ie, not Han Chinese)...they were > basically a foreign occupation that stuck around for a while; > and 2) (Nominally Tibetan) Buddhists. Although they of course > adhered to the larger Confucian notions, they in many wa

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

That is the revisionist version - that china was a free and capitalist society, therefore freedom is not enough to ensure modernity and industrialization - a proposition as ludicrous as similar accounts of more recently existent despotic states. I can't tell if you're arguing me with or just yours

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

ot; culture. -TD From: "James A. Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: cypherpunks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:11:09 -0800 -- ken wrote: > > And when was this stagnation? R.A. Hettinga wrote: > Tw

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

rom: "James A. Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:41:20 -0800 -- On 12 Nov 2004 at 9:51, Tyler Durden wrote: > As far as I'm concerned, what Kung Tze does ca 5 BCE is > really cons

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

-- ken wrote: > > And when was this stagnation? R.A. Hettinga wrote: > Two words: Ming Navy For those who need more words, the Qing Dynasty forbade ownership or building of ocean going vessels, on pain of death - the early equivalent of the iron curtain. --digsig James A. Don

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

-- On 12 Nov 2004 at 11:12, Tyler Durden wrote: > However, blaming the Chinese response to the Meiji > restoration on officially unsanctioned thought illustrates a > complete cluelessness about China. During that time Chinese > intellectuals (which at the time meant practically anyone who >

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

-- James A. Donald. > > China stagnated because no thought other than official > > thought occurred. On 12 Nov 2004 at 15:40, ken wrote: > And when was this stagnation? Started soon after the Qing dynasty > And what were the reasons China did not "stagnate" for the > previous thousand year

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

-- On 12 Nov 2004 at 9:51, Tyler Durden wrote: > As far as I'm concerned, what Kung Tze does ca 5 BCE is > really consdolidate and codify a large and diverse body of > practices and beliefs under a fairly unified set of ethical > ideas. In that sense, the Legalists were merely a refocusing > of

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

At 3:40 PM + 11/12/04, ken wrote: >And when was this stagnation? Two words: Ming Navy Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usef

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

cypherpunks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:40:27 + China stagnated because no thought other than official thought occurred. And when was this stagnation? And what were the reasons China did not "stagnate" for the previous thousand years?

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

China stagnated because no thought other than official thought occurred. And when was this stagnation? And what were the reasons China did not "stagnate" for the previous thousand years?

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

D From: "Enzo Michelangeli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:53:07 +0800 Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks Tyler Durden Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:56:08 -0800 > Oh No > > > Way

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

-- James Donald: > > However Confucianism vs Daoism/Taoism is rather different > > from what you would get in the west. Confucianism is > > somewhat similar to what you would get if western cultural > > conservatives allied themselves with nazi/commies, in the > > way that the commies are

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks Tyler Durden Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:56:08 -0800 > Oh No > > > Way overly simplistic. Also, you are comparing apples to bushels of > wheat. > > [James Donald:] > However Confucianism vs Daoism/Taoism is rather different from what

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

Oh No Way overly simplistic. Also, you are comparing apples to bushels of wheat. However Confucianism vs Daoism/Taoism is rather different from what you would get in the west. Confucianism is somewhat similar to what you would get if western cultural conservatives allied themselves with nazi/c

Re: China's wealthy bypass the banks

-- Tyler Durden wrote: > Fascinating. And typical of the unusual Chinese seesaw that has > occurred throuout the aeons between hyper-strict centralized control > and something approaching a lite version of anarchy. There's no good > mapping of this into Western ideas of fascism, marxism, and >

RE: China's wealthy bypass the banks

that there's a ganster base in Wenzhou. This is precisely where the young Chiang Kai Shek consolidated his power early on as a local gangster/warlord. -TD From: "R.A. Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: China's wealthy bypass the banks Date:

China's wealthy bypass the banks

<http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2004/11/09/business/yuan.html> China's wealthy bypass the banks By Keith Bradsher The New York Times Wednesday, November 10, 2004 WENZHOU, China The Wenzhou "stir-fry" is not a dish you eat. But it is giving i