Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Jun 26, 2004, at 23:56, J.A. Terranson wrote: On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Do any models let YOU decide to send your location to ANOTHER phone? Mine, an Samsung I330 PDA/Phone (actually a rebranded Handspring) allows you to selectively *disable* non-lea queries. Based upon t

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > > Even if this is doable, it is out of reach of Jane Citizen. > > > > If a J. Random Hacker with the necessary capabilities is within her reach, > > the countermeasure is available to her regardless of her own tech skills. > > You assume that Jane's

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

One phone I'd like to recommend against is the SideKick. I've no idea if it's got a GPS receiver or not - likely it doesn't need one since it's GPRS and can use tower timing as discussed before. I'm recommending against it, because while I love the phone and its features, it's too big brother

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

Nomen Nescio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There is no such thing as a GPS frequency. Well, clearly there's the frequency on which the satellites broadcast (~1500MHz). I think his point was that to jam the GPS you've got to put out RF energy on the appropriate frequency, which would then be tracea

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

Jack Lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was looking at getting a Sprint phone last week - every model I > looked at had a GPS chip. Try the Sanyo SCP-8100. It does network-assisted location only. It also has a much more sensitive frontend than anything from Samsung, has a reasonably nice-looki

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

> More recent phones from Sprint must support real GPS, since Qualcomm > offers chipsets with GPS support, which they wouldn't do unless their > only customers (Sprint phone manufacturers) wanted it. I was looking at getting a Sprint phone last week - every model I looked at had a GPS chip. -J

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 01:13 PM 6/27/2004, Jack Lloyd wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 01:01:53PM -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: > Do any of them let _you_ see the GPS results (which would be useful), > or are they only available to Big Brother and maybe advertisers? Not as far as I know. The cheaper ones certainly don't, i

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 12:28 PM 6/27/2004, Jack Lloyd wrote: > More recent phones from Sprint must support real GPS, since Qualcomm > offers chipsets with GPS support, which they wouldn't do unless their > only customers (Sprint phone manufacturers) wanted it. I was looking at getting a Sprint phone last week - every

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, Jun 26, 2004 at 10:46:53PM -0700, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > At 12:25 AM 6/27/04 -0500, Riad S. Wahby wrote: > >Triangluating on a non-isotropic antenna should be quite a bit > harder... > > > > Bingo. Watch your sidelobes, baby. Triangulation by signal strength is one thing, triangula

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 12:25 AM 6/27/04 -0500, Riad S. Wahby wrote: >Triangluating on a non-isotropic antenna should be quite a bit harder... > Bingo. Watch your sidelobes, baby.

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Riad S. Wahby wrote: > "J.A. Terranson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Interestingly, some [early] models had external antenna jacks built in to > > them. > > Many still have test jacks on them. Both my old Samsung A500 and my > current Sanyo SCP-8100 have a connector (eithe

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > > Yes, I suppose that the more technical amongst us could selctively jam > > only the one signal, however, cellular phones are mighty low power > > devices, and I would not hazard a guess as to whether it

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jamming GPS is no problem, but then they'll just triangulate you within the > cell. The only way to prevent that would be to switch off, andn to pull the > battery (unless the firmware is open source, and peer-reviewed). A little poking around on google rev

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 12:01 AM 6/27/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: >Interestingly, some [early] models had external antenna jacks built in to >them. Again I am a few Moore's generations behind. (Does that make me a semi-Amish atheist? Or a reformed Luddite?) Where I vacation sometimes, I would need a metallized um

Body Armor (was Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi)

Just for the record, after writing that last missive, which reflects an experience almost 25 years old, I did some quick googling on current body armor. My experience *probably* does not hold with the latest (post 1999) fiber systems. But I still wouldn't bet my life on it. -- Yours, J.A. Ter

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

"J.A. Terranson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You assume that Jane's only problem is equipment procurement. Alas, > Jane's biggest problem has not changed much in the last 100 years: > knowledge. Jane doesn't know this is an issue that she might need help > with. People who don't know they need

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

> At 12:41 AM 6/27/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: > >On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > > > >> At 11:56 PM 6/26/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: > >> > > >> >Hrmmm... Cell Phone. TEMPEST Case. > >> > > >> >What's wrong with this picture??? > >> > >> 1. You can't receive calls. Onl

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 02:02:24AM +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > Can it be disabled by hardware hack of the phone, a mikropower jammer, or > using an "unofficial" firmware? Jamming GPS is no problem, but then they'll just triangulate you within the cell. The only way to prevent that would be to

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote: > Triangulation by signal strength is one thing, triangulation by relativistic > ToF (time of flight) -- while still not present in consumer gadgets -- is far > more difficult to fool. Especially if it's tied into the protocol, that > you're getting positio

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > Eventually the cellphones will be able to tell another phone approx > where they are. [...] The marketing reason would be to help people > find others geographically. At least with GSM, the base station always knows the approximate distance to the

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 12:41 AM 6/27/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: >On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > >> At 11:56 PM 6/26/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: >> > >> >Hrmmm... Cell Phone. TEMPEST Case. >> > >> >What's wrong with this picture??? >> >> 1. You can't receive calls. Only make outgoing, from

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 11:56 PM 6/26/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: > >Hrmmm... Cell Phone. TEMPEST Case. > >What's wrong with this picture??? 1. You can't receive calls. Only make outgoing, from a location which is known to fascists. 2. Use it for your toll-road-transponder too.

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > At 11:56 PM 6/26/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > > >Hrmmm... Cell Phone. TEMPEST Case. > > > >What's wrong with this picture??? > > 1. You can't receive calls. Only make outgoing, from a location > which is known to fascists. Let's try agai

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

"J.A. Terranson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Interestingly, some [early] models had external antenna jacks built in to > them. Many still have test jacks on them. Both my old Samsung A500 and my current Sanyo SCP-8100 have a connector (either MC or SMA, IIRC) on the back hidden under a rubber pl

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 07:21 AM 6/26/04 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > > >The New York Times > >June 26, 2004 > >For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi >By MATT RICHTEL Eventually the cellphones will be able to tell an

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > >> Go for the head shot, they're wearing body armor > > > >If at close range, it is far easier to simply throw water at them prior > to > >firing. For one, the water acts as apowerful lubricant, effectively > >removing the armor, > > huh? Wet ke

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > > > a mikropower jammer, > > > > Only if you are willing to forego the phone as well, in which case, just > > remove the battery pack :-) > > I am assuming here that the phone has a dual receiver, one of

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 02:02 AM 6/27/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > >Can it be disabled by hardware hack of the phone, a mikropower jammer, or >using an "unofficial" firmware? It would be hard to verify/test that you had in fact cut the correct trace, and it would depend on the phone, and you would void your warr

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 11:53 PM 6/26/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: > >Yes, I suppose that the more technical amongst us could selctively jam >only the one signal, however, cellular phones are mighty low power >devices, They can put half (?) a watt out, some of it absorbed by your brain and hand BTW. and I would n

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > > > Eventually the cellphones will be able to tell another phone approx > > > where they are. Remember the 911-locator fascism? > > > > I hate to break the news to you Major, but GPS enabled phones cann

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 02:02 AM 6/27/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote: > >Can it be disabled by hardware hack of the phone, a mikropower jammer, or >using an "unofficial" firmware? I wrote: It would be hard to verify/test that you had in fact cut the correct trace, and it would depend on the phone, and you wou

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 06:38 AM 6/27/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote: >If the phone is shielded, it can't transmit/receive, which makes it rather >useless. :( When you don't want to use it, why should it not be useless? >There is one potential landmine as well; the inherent ability of any >device containing resonato

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > I'm fully aware the pigs track you unless the battery is removed or you > have a TEMPEST case. I'm suggesting that regular citizens will have > access to that, if (in my cluelessness) they don't already. If the phone is shielded, it can't transm

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > Eventually the cellphones will be able to tell another phone approx > > where they are. Remember the 911-locator fascism? > > I hate to break the news to you Major, but GPS enabled phones cannot be > instructed to turn off the GPS feature for law en

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote: > > a mikropower jammer, > > Only if you are willing to forego the phone as well, in which case, just > remove the battery pack :-) I am assuming here that the phone has a dual receiver, one of the GPS signal and one of the cellular service itself. As b

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > Of course disabling your GPS unit will not prevent the fascists from > doing triangulation with signal strength, ie the alternative (and > cheaper > and less precise alternative). That's merely physics and > geometry. To counter that, you need

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > >> Eventually the cellphones will be able to tell another phone approx > >> where they are. Remember the 911-locator fascism? > Do any models let YOU decide to send your location to ANOTHER > phone? Mine, an Samsung I330 PDA/Phone (actually a

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > At 07:21 AM 6/26/04 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote: > > > > > > >The New York Times > > > >June 26, 2004 > > > >For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

At 06:27 PM 6/26/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote: >On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote: >> >> Eventually the cellphones will be able to tell another phone approx >> where they are. Remember the 911-locator fascism? > >I hate to break the news to you Major, but GPS enabled phones cannot b