Hi!
On 2019/03/29 13:20, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 3/29/19 11:40 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:
I believe that this thread has steered well off-topic, and it's probably
better that you move it off-list or elsewhere.
thanks!
-Jonathan
--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)
On 3/29/19 11:40 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:
> On Thu 2019-03-28 07:18:45 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> Virtually any wealth that was accumulated through illegal business is
>> confiscated by legal prosecutors and either kept by the government or
>> - if the rightful owners can be d
On Thu 2019-03-28 07:18:45 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Virtually any wealth that was accumulated through illegal business is
> confiscated by legal prosecutors and either kept by the government or
> - if the rightful owners can be determined - returned to them.
This is a remarkably a
On jueves, 28 de marzo de 2019 7:18:45 (CET) John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 3/28/19 2:52 AM, René Mérou wrote:
> > For the soft interpretation, If you have one heart of a specifically
> > killed non-volunteer donor, you are not to blame if you here not informed
> > and you wouldn't accept i
Argument edited to add an interesting link.
On martes, 26 de marzo de 2019 14:22:19 (CET) John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> The point is simply that you cannot blame the people of nowadays for
> decisions that were made way before they were born.
You just say that as it was clare and evident.
On 3/28/19 2:52 AM, René Mérou wrote:
> For the soft interpretation, If you have one heart of a specifically killed
> non-volunteer donor, you are not to blame if you here not informed and you
> wouldn't accept it voluntarily.
You are pulling this out of thin air, it's a completely constructe
On martes, 26 de marzo de 2019 14:22:19 (CET) John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> The point is simply that you cannot blame the people of nowadays for
> decisions that were made way before they were born.
You just say that as it was clare and evident. I think ethics are an
interesting subject,
On 3/26/19 2:11 PM, Piotr Ożarowski wrote:
> [John Paul Adrian Glaubitz, 2019-03-21]
>> According to this logic, you wouldn't be allowed to host a DebConf in almost
>> any
>> country in the world as almost any stretch of land has changed owners,
>> deliberately
>> or by force over the time.
>>
>>
[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz, 2019-03-21]
> According to this logic, you wouldn't be allowed to host a DebConf in almost
> any
> country in the world as almost any stretch of land has changed owners,
> deliberately
> or by force over the time.
>
> The farm of my great grand-parents is now owned by
Nasir El-Amin wrote:
Israel is land stolen from Palestinians its a illegitimate
nation that has built walls with machine gun turrets and
oppressive paramilitary groups that assault and murder
Palestinians and that blockade aid from Palestinians.
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz a écrit :
> On 3/21/19 5:10 PM, Nasir El-Amin wrote:
> > Debian having a conference in contested land where military conflict and
> > oppressive acts are occurring is unacceptable.
>
> According to this logic, you wouldn't be allowed to host a DebConf in almost
> any
>
On 2019-03-21 17:36 +, Nasir El-Amin wrote:
> I haven’t once mentioned Jews. I’ve mentioned Israelis which are citizens of
> Israel. There are Jews worldwide especially of the Orthodox that 100% condemn
> the existence of Israel. This isn’t a Jew vs Muslim issue. This is a Israel vs
> Muslims
Nasir El-Amin writes:
> Israeli is a nationality not the faith of Judaism. I’m criticizing
> citizens (which practice a variety of faiths) of a genocidal apartheid
> state that’s killed tens of thousands of Muslims.
The same argument can be made about US treatment of Native Americans, and
while
Hi,
On 21/03/2019 18:10, Nasir El-Amin
wrote:
This isn’t true and
your going to hear claims that Muslims are blocked by Israel
being false from Israelis as they like to pretend it doesn’t
occur
I would oppose a Debconf in the United States too because the current
exclusionary and oppressive policies. This isn’t about faith as some are trying
to make it out to be it’s about acts of fascism
Anyways per the list maintainer I’m no longer allowed to discuss this issue or
criticize Debconf
I’ll now be silent the list maintainer says if I discuss apartheid or any
further criticism of Israel that myself and anyone else critical will be banned
from Debian mailing lists.
So much for the social contract and so much for anti-fascism. It’s a very sad
day for the Debian project it’s shut
It is good to read this civil discussion on such a difficult topic.
Maybe obvious, but I'll state it anyway: When deciding not to accept a
bid based on a moral principle, (instead of some Debian specific
criteria) I hope all remember that principle might stand for future
decisions, as a preceda
Jonathan,
It’s not just what their government is doing it’s what the citizens themselves
by being on occupied land are doing. All of Israel is occupied land not once
inch is fairly staked. By becoming a Israel citizen and living in Israel all
Israelis take part in the oppression. In fact it’s s
> Respectfully speaking, being vocal against apartheid and international
crimes is the opposite of hate speech.
That is completely true. And yet alongside the statements that reasonably
match your description, a whole other set of statements equating Israeli
citizenship with being Nazi collaborato
On 2019/03/21 19:36, Nasir El-Amin wrote:
> I haven’t once mentioned Jews. I’ve mentioned Israelis which are
> citizens of Israel. There are Jews worldwide especially of the Orthodox
> that 100% condemn the existence of Israel. This isn’t a Jew vs Muslim
> issue. This is a Israel vs Muslims issue a
d care about human rights
and international law at the same time.
If you want on-topic discussion, please state what you contributed to
Debian, and what do you plan to contribute to Debconf in Israel.
Thank you!
--
Roger Shimizu, GMT +9 Tokyo
PGP/GPG: 4096R/6C6ACD6417B3ACB1
Dear Nasir, please don't impose your political stance on others, it's
perfectly fine for an unrelated event to be held in places with major
conflicts.
Debconf held in _insert_a_government_'s jurisdiction area does NOT mean
Debian support _insert_a_government_ in any way, even in places such as the
Hi,
On 21/03/2019 16:52, Nasir El-Amin wrote:
There is no such thing as an innocent Israeli just like there is no such
thing as a innocent Nazi. Silence is complicity and Israelis aren’t just
silent in these issues they are supportive of them because they support
the existence of their aparth
Again another terrible comparison not even deserving of a response.
On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 10:30 AM, 林博仁 wrote:
> Roger Shimizu 於 2019年3月22日 週五 上午1:14寫道：
>
>> I'm sorry you didn't say so when we had debconf in Taiwan, where ever
>> occupied by Spanish, Nederlanders, Japanese, and Chinese.
>> T
Hello Jonathan,
I haven’t once mentioned Jews. I’ve mentioned Israelis which are citizens of
Israel. There are Jews worldwide especially of the Orthodox that 100% condemn
the existence of Israel. This isn’t a Jew vs Muslim issue. This is a Israel vs
Muslims issue and the fact that Israel exists
Roger Shimizu 於 2019年3月22日 週五 上午1:14寫道：
> I'm sorry you didn't say so when we had debconf in Taiwan, where ever
> occupied by Spanish, Nederlanders, Japanese, and Chinese.
> That didn't prevent a success conference.
>
Thank god that there's no China-nese DDs complaining that Debconf18 is held
at
Hi Nasir
On 2019/03/21 18:52, Nasir El-Amin wrote:
> Any DD who lives in Israel is a direct contributor financially and
> morally to apartheid and genocide against the Palestinian people.
I sympathise with your views but you're stepping over a line here. Many
Jewish people and Israelites do not a
Israeli is a nationality not the faith of Judaism. I’m criticizing citizens
(which practice a variety of faiths) of a genocidal apartheid state that’s
killed tens of thousands of Muslims.
Last year alone Israel killed 290 innocent Palestinians[1] which meets the
definition of genocide.
https:/
Roger,
Respectfully speaking, being vocal against apartheid and international crimes
is the opposite of hate speech. Furthermore, I think bringing up other
countries is off-topic.
As Avi correctly mentioned before,
> I think we can safely agree that past actions are not the same as ongoing
>
On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 1:59 AM Nasir El-Amin
wrote:
>
> Here one Palestinian user of Debian points out he would be excluded:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/b3cen2/debconf20_to_be_hosted_in_haifa_israel/eiyxby6/
>
> How about we agree that Debconf never take place in a country that wou
ms for
>> countless years and the state of Israel sits on occupied Palestinian land.
>> Debian having a conference in contested land where military conflict and
>> oppressive acts are occurring is unacceptable.
>>
>> We (the Muslim Community of Linux Users) are working
Thank you for these emails.
Providing tacit approval for apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and international
crimes ought to be antithetical with Debconf's - and the entire Debian
project's - mission. I share Nasir El-Amin's frustration and feeling of
betrayal over this poor decision, and am also ac
s years and the state of Israel sits on occupied Palestinian land.
>> Debian having a conference in contested land where military conflict and
>> oppressive acts are occurring is unacceptable.
>>
>> We (the Muslim Community of Linux Users) are working on a larger respon
No there isn’t a better forum because our social contract says we don’t hide
issues. Someone would like to downplay the apartheid and sweep this discussion
elsewhere.
On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 9:35 AM, Avi wrote:
> I think we can safely agree that past actions are not the same as ongoing
> acti
That’s not even a logical example we’re talking about an ongoing apartheid and
continued theft of land by a illegitimate state that’s violating international
law and treaties. Your trying to water down what’s going on in Israel. United
Nations has described Israel as an apartheid state. When you
I think we can safely agree that past actions are not the same as ongoing
actions. The objections raised include ongoing actions, not just past ones.
I think we can also agree that entrenched parties aren't going to convince
each other about the rights and wrongs of Israel via this mailing list. Is
On 3/21/19 5:10 PM, Nasir El-Amin wrote:
> Debian having a conference in contested land where military conflict and
> oppressive acts are occurring is unacceptable.
According to this logic, you wouldn't be allowed to host a DebConf in almost any
country in the world as almost any stretch of land
) are working on a larger response to
Debconf in Israel.
If you at all believe in social justice and oppose human rights violations then
you will not attend a Debconf in Israel.
On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 1:32 AM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> Yesterday Nasir El-Amin wrote to this list a message.
>
&
Yesterday Nasir El-Amin wrote to this list a message.
I was not subscribed to the list and thus cannot reply directly.
The message did raise one relevant issue:
> Palestinian or Muslim Debian contributors won’t be allowed
by Israel to atten
As a user of Debian for many years and a Muslim I’m writing to say I’m deeply
saddened by Debian’s choice to have Debconf in Israel.
Israel is land stolen from Palestinians its a illegitimate nation that has
built walls with machine gun turrets and oppressive paramilitary groups that
assault
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