Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Eli Zaretskii writes: > In any case, it makes little sense to me to complicate the > installation of binaries and their upgrade, and make your PATH longer, > just to arrive at a solution we can already have -- separating just > the manuals and having the corresponding directories

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 6 August 2015 at 03:39, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 21:16:36 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org Symlinks are less portable than init files. What

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 09:00:14 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org One idea I had, which could be useful for Windows and other systems lacking symlinks, is to make an Info file

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 8 August 2015 at 09:32, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: problems I foresee are that indirect sub-file tables have hitherto never contained absolute paths Why would it need to, since this is only about renaming the basename of the Info file, isn't it? Assuming you were asking about the

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015, Gavin Smith wrote: I implemented that yesterday; are you able to run the version from the development repository? I have added your patch from yesterday together with the patch you sent before about having / in info dir files to the Debian package, and I could follow the

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 6 August 2015 at 10:43, Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote: But we also have an entry * Eshell: (emacs-24/eshell). ... Then I have removed all references but the main to emacs from the dir file, and retested, but still eshell info was found and loaded. So yes, it seemed

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 4 August 2015 at 00:10, Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at wrote: ANyway, I wan to return to the proposal I wrote some time ago and that was discarded as not working (or unclear): Change info reader node search method as follows: * if a node is going to be followed, first search

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 5 August 2015 at 20:05, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: If the file is created as -o foo-1.2.3.info, there should be no need to rewrite anything, is there? That's assuming the person installing the Info file is also creating it. Distributions of software products frequently distribute

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 21:16:36 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org Symlinks are less portable than init files. What operating systems don't support symlinks Windows. (Later

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 21:20:47 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org A solution that supports inter-manual links, both in Info and in HTML formats. To do this on a per-user

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 5 August 2015 at 16:06, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 21:20:47 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org A solution that supports inter-manual links, both in

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 18:09:45 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org Which is why I think having a feature that would transparently replace foo in an Info file name with

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 4 August 2015 at 16:39, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: You could easily install and access multiple versions of manuals side-by-side, by configuring with --program-suffix. Taking the example of Texinfo, you could access different versions of the Texinfo manual with info texinfo-5.0, info

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 4 August 2015 at 14:34, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: It would still be better than what we have at the moment, though. In what way would it be better? I don't see any significant improvement, just the added complexity. You could easily install and access multiple versions of manuals

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 21:27:32 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org I don't see how this would solve the issue at hand. Installation of a manual is a system-wide action,

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

lots of mails here Indeed. I'm afraid I can't keep up, so after these short replies, I'm bowing out of this thread. I still don't see why you are opposing the idea to have different versions of the same program installed, and wanting to be able to *check* all of them. I don't

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 19:51:23 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org On 4 August 2015 at 16:39, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: You could easily install and access multiple

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 4 August 2015 at 20:10, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: Can you elaborate on what would constitute a complete solution? A solution that supports inter-manual links, both in Info and in HTML formats. To do this on a per-user basis, we would need some environment variable or/and user init

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 15:27:51 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Karl Berry k...@freefriends.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org, Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org Suppose there are two emacs installations, one as /usr/bin/emacs, which is

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 4 August 2015 at 14:35, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: Then there would only be one foo.info manual reachable for each element in PATH (those other than the first can be accessed with info --all foo). This means that info foo can only give the manual for a particular version of foo if

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 08:10:23 +0900 From: Norbert Preining prein...@logic.at Cc: 793...@bugs.debian.org, bug-texi...@gnu.org, r...@defaultvalue.org lots of mails here, but I still don't see why you are opposing the idea to have different versions of the same program installed, and wanting

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

would be useful for install-info to be able to do some transformation, along with a transformation of the filename. (Karl, please explain why you think this is a bad idea.) Having I-I being able to transform dir file entries I have no particular objection to. I suppose that is the

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 23:32:08 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org, Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org If you don't care about being able to access renamed files via cross-references, then the renaming of files to

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 15:16:45 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org On 4 August 2015 at 14:34, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: It would still be better than what we have at the

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 4 August 2015 at 16:44, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 15:27:51 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Karl Berry k...@freefriends.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org, Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org Suppose there are

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 19:55:41 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: Karl Berry k...@freefriends.org, 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org, Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org I'm saying that manuals that don't have any executables will be in trouble.

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

From: Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:35:29 -0500 Karl Berry k...@freefriends.org writes: Here's what I don't get: suppose there are two versions of Emacs installed, emacs-x and emacs-y. Presumably Debian (and anyone else) has some method for the user to

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 15:16:27 +0100 From: Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com Cc: 793...@bugs.debian.org, Texinfo bug-texi...@gnu.org On 3 August 2015 at 14:22, Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com wrote: I'm wondering if we can kill two birds with one stone here and get install-info

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 3 August 2015 at 14:22, Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com wrote: I'm wondering if we can kill two birds with one stone here and get install-info to actually install the Info file as part of the solution. So here's an idea. Add a --suffix option to install-info and at the same time allow

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Perhaps it's naive, but I feel like I might just want a dir like this so that I can find what I want and don't have to change global state and/or restart the viewer just to read different versions: I agree. You can have that now. It does not need new features, so far as I can see.

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Hi Karl, hi all, lots of mails here, but I still don't see why you are opposing the idea to have different versions of the same program installed, and wanting to be able to *check* all of them. On Mon, 03 Aug 2015, Karl Berry wrote: If you're globally changing the meaning of the emacs binary,

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 3 August 2015 at 22:55, Karl Berry k...@freefriends.org wrote: Perhaps it's naive, but I feel like I might just want a dir like this so that I can find what I want and don't have to change global state and/or restart the viewer just to read different versions: I agree. You can

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

That doesn't happen, and nobody seems to miss it. If the shell can avoid a lot of complexity handling multiple versions of programs, I suspect it may not be necessary for documentation either. Indeed. Which is why I don't understand why we're having this whole thread. Sorry. It

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 3 August 2015 at 01:40, Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org wrote: - There's an easy way to ask specifically for the foo X pages. I suppose X might be program specific, but all of the values I can think of right now are of the form N or N.M. (i.e. GCC 5.0, Python 2.7, Python

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 3 August 2015 at 16:21, Eli Zaretskii e...@gnu.org wrote: I don't see how this would solve the issue at hand. Installation of a manual is a system-wide action, whereas Rob wanted a way for a _user_ to specify her preferred version(s) of the manual(s) to use at any given moment. How the

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

On 2 August 2015 at 00:18, Rob Browning r...@defaultvalue.org wrote: As far as I can see, Debian is creating the problem by distributing two different versions of Emacs at the same time. So it seems to me the answer should come at the same level: Debian could have two different directories

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Here's what I don't get: suppose there are two versions of Emacs installed, emacs-x and emacs-y. Presumably Debian (and anyone else) has some method for the user to choose which one is invoked by just emacs. Can't that method, whatever it is, also switch the Info files that are found? For

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Gavin Smith gavinsmith0...@gmail.com writes: One observation is that the case with Emacs having many manuals for it and associated programs is a rare case. Thus the suggestion of having subdirectories for each Emacs version (/usr/share/info/emacs23, /usr/share/info/emacs24, etc.) doesn't mean

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Karl Berry k...@freefriends.org writes: Here's what I don't get: suppose there are two versions of Emacs installed, emacs-x and emacs-y. Presumably Debian (and anyone else) has some method for the user to choose which one is invoked by just emacs. Can't that method, whatever it is, also

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Karl Berry k...@freefriends.org writes: As far as I can see, Debian is creating the problem by distributing two different versions of Emacs at the same time. So it seems to me the answer should come at the same level: Debian could have two different directories with the Emacs manuals. Then

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

* my wish list: support of sub directories and links within subdirs in this case selecting a link would *first* search for the Hmm. Sadly, I just cannot comprehend -- this seems like an unspecifiable, unmanageable, mess. I expect I'm missing something. Officially supporting

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Link to discussion for reference: https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg1339655.html On 21 July 2015 at 13:23, Norbert Preining norb...@preining.info wrote: Moreover there are many Info files under the emacs-24 subdirectory that describe various Emacs modes, etc.?

Bug#793067: Bug#792328: info: can no longer find the Emacs manual

Hi Gavin, hi Rob, since Gavin agreed, I include both the Debian bug report as well as the texinfo bug list and the Debian TeX maintainer list. On Tue, 21 Jul 2015, Gavin Smith wrote: Does that mean that the elisp manual is installed under emacs-24/elisp.info Yes. and somehow, when the