Package: www.debian.org Severity: serious As I don't familiar with Debian mail lists hierarchy I previously ask for right place at:
debian-de...@lists.debian.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/175739 debian-...@lists.debian.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.www/37994 But next pointed to this bug list: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/pseudo-packages So... ================================================================ I think that page: http://www.debian.org/support MUST be reorganised in this way: * Make clarification on difference between official and non-official support resources. * Split page on two part: first list official resources, second - non-official. * Remove some non-official resources. * Add link to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianResources If my arguments non-valuable or my vote value low I ask only for: * Make clarification on difference between official and non-official support resources. I try to take arguments why doing so. ================================================================ I think that page: http://www.debian.org/support describe two things: 1) how to get help on Debian topic 2) channels of interaction between regular users and Debian project While 1) goal is currently completed by this page 2) goal is partially broken - this page doesn't take easy distinct what belong to Debian project. Personally I think that all under *.debian.org are official. But this is my assumption. Where I can find this kind of info? I believe that most of people associate Debian with DFSG so I believe that most of these people think that official Debian resources consistent with DFSG (like avoiding discrimination, priorities on Debian users and free software, and other parts from DFSG). ================================================================ I don't know where stated official information about what are official Debian resources for human interaction. As I understand official resources are: * Debian documentation (txt, html, pdf) * Debian Wiki (wiki.debian.org) * Debian mailing lists (accessed from Google Groups (HTTP) or Gmane (NNTP)) * Package Maintainers (<package name>@packages.debian.org, where I can find archive of these mails??) * Bug Tracking System (mail, HTTP) * IRC (irc.debian.org) I think that http://www.debian.org/support is only one right place for such king of info in current hierarchy of http://www.debian.org/... ================================================================ Compare with this page: http://www.debian.org/ which have column: Support Debian International Security Information Bug reports Mailing Lists Mailing List Archives Ports/Architectures There are no links to non-official resources. ================================================================ While some resources have term of use like: http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/disclaimer but I don't find terms under another pages: http://wiki.debian.org/ http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWiki/Contact http://www.debian.org/support#irc http://wiki.debian.org/IRC#Official_Debian_IRC_channels http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ I try to look these keywords without success: term licence statement agreement FAQ contract I don't discuss about legality of communication, licence issues or disclaimers on these resources (but it is essential!! for example if wiki permission too restrictive I can't copy example of configs, etc). My point in that if page http://www.debian.org/support achieve goal: * Make clarification on difference between official and non-official support resources. we have sentences that describe what mean to be official resources. This text must be harmonised with term of use of official resources. ================================================================ When I say that goal 1) how to get help on Debian topic completed I miss one thing. http://www.debian.org/support point to 2 forums. But: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianResources point to another 10x or so forums. I don't have statistics how often forums are visited and how helpful they are but I think that non-listened forums discriminated (they miss promotion from Debian home page, while other get). Another point that http://www.debian.org/support is not editable (this is good) but anyone who setup new Debian resource have difficulties (I can be wrong) in adding it to http://www.debian.org/support (note that wiki.debian.org is editable by anyone who interesting in changes). If take together these two thought I think it is right make one of: * remove info about unnecessary non-official resources or * state that "These resources ... are proved to be useful to Debian community. Also there are exist another {forums, wiki, etc. - select one}, you can browse full list at: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianResources#TAG-TO-XXX";. This resolve two my proposals: * Remove some non-official resources. * Add link to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianResources ================================================================ Example of possible harm which can come from users when they use non-official resources is discussed at: http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2004/09/msg00031.html thread about announce of http://forums.debian.net, but next critics about debianHELP forum This post point to: * Conflict with DFSG in term of use of resources. * Meta-site, mix of forums, FAQs, books, links, any you want... * Different branding and styling from official. * Ads on resources. So any non-official resource can conflict with DFSG, potentially can make harm to users, and what sad http://www.debian.org/support promotes this resource! -- Best regards! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-bugs-rc-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
