On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 09:53:32 -0700, Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org
wrote:
Hear, hear. How do I deliver mail? is a per-system setting, not a
per-application setting, and the move towards having MUAs talking SMTP
directly to send mail is a flawed model picked up on the Linux desktop from
certain
Le samedi 15 octobre 2011 à 09:53 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
Hear, hear. How do I deliver mail? is a per-system setting, not a
per-application setting,
This is true for many enterprise deployments, but in the general case,
it is a per-user setting, not a per-system setting.
and the
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 at 13:23:00 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
Do you mean [...] the
envelope icon Gnome3 adds that holds such important info like the last song
that started playing (used to OSD for a couple of seconds), or that you got
new mail (no matter it's already shown elsewhere, and the
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 at 16:09:50 +0100, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 15/10/11 22:00, Josh Triplett wrote:
Every ISP mailserver I've seen, and for that matter almost every other
mailserver I've seen, requires SMTP AUTH to send mail; the SMTP AUTH
credentials vary by user.
I don't believe this is
Hi there!
Disclaimer: I am not an SMTP expert.
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 21:37:59 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
Andrea Bolognani wrote:
The proxy one needs to go through to access the Internet from inside my
University buildings cuts off SMTP.
Have you checked to see if it blocks SMTPS, or the
Hi there!
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 00:48:11 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:29:56 +0200
Andreas Barth a...@not.so.argh.org wrote:
* Neil Williams (codeh...@debian.org) [111015 22:23]:
The problem with Standard is that it is currently (and heavily) biased
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:55:09 +0200
Luca Capello l...@pca.it wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 00:48:11 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:29:56 +0200
Andreas Barth a...@not.so.argh.org wrote:
* Neil Williams (codeh...@debian.org) [111015 22:23]:
The
Hi there!
Just some small notes without re-iterating what other people already
wrote in this (now too-long) thread.
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 10:26:06 +0200, Jonas Meurer wrote:
Am 12.10.2011 23:39, schrieb Josh Triplett:
Not every system needs an MTA, and I'd argue that today most systems
don't.
Le dimanche 16 octobre 2011 à 02:41 +0100, Ben Hutchings a écrit :
That's the main one that I'd worry about. Also overheating warnings, for
which even the home user can do something immediately.
The user generally can't even read the warning in time to make a
decision; the system must
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 07:20:54PM +0200, Luca Capello wrote:
I think that the real question is: how much should Debian GNU/Linux
mimic a standard UNIX system by default?
I think this is the real question. If standard is a default Unix
system, then it needs to have an MTA. I believe this even
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:26:12AM +, brian m. carlson wrote:
standard, we should also not ship nfs-common, rpcbind, or libtirpc since
NFS is used even less often than an MTA and the same rationale for not
installing it applies.
Those seem like reasonable things to drop, though I don't
On Oct 16, Don Armstrong d...@debian.org wrote:
1: I should note that I personally use a custom written nullmailer
plugin which uses ssh to connect to my central mail host and then run
/usr/lib/sendmail there... granted, that's probably a little bit
crazy, but it works great for my laptops
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 03:50:45PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
1: I should note that I personally use a custom written nullmailer
plugin which uses ssh to connect to my central mail host and then run
/usr/lib/sendmail there... granted, that's probably a little bit
crazy, but it works great
On 15/10/11 22:00, Josh Triplett wrote:
Steve Langasek wrote:
Needing to send mail through specific per-user smarthosts is the exception,
not the rule. Most machines have a designated forwarding smarthost based on
who their ISP is, not based on which email address someone wants to use.
Andrea Bolognani wrote:
The proxy one needs to go through to access the Internet from inside my
University buildings cuts off SMTP.
Have you checked to see if it blocks SMTPS, or the submission port?
The latter often gets through when port 25 won't, and SMTPS almost
always works.
- Josh
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011, Andrea Bolognani wrote:
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 03:50:45PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
1: I should note that I personally use a custom written nullmailer
plugin which uses ssh to connect to my central mail host and then
run /usr/lib/sendmail there... granted, that's
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hi,
Thanks to Josh for starting this discussion. I think that you summarized
most arguments very well in your mail.
Am 12.10.2011 23:39, schrieb Josh Triplett:
Not every system needs an MTA, and I'd argue that today most systems
don't. End-user
On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 at 16:02:09 -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, Josh Triplett wrote:
End-user systems (desktops, laptops) typically handle mail via one
or more smarthosts elsewhere, driven by MUAs that know how to talk
SMTP.
While this definitely is the current state,
On Sb, 15 oct 11, 10:26:06, Jonas Meurer wrote:
Why not use tasksel for this? It should be easy to introduce a basic
server task which contains things like default MTA, SSH server, etc.
while a basic desktop task doesn't.
Actually there already exists a Mail Server task[1]. Not very useful
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 12:46:31AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le vendredi 14 octobre 2011 à 11:32 -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a
écrit :
I seem to recall our super duper memory-bloated DEs were not even
warning the user when something was screaming blood murder on the
emergency,
Le samedi 15 octobre 2011 à 12:36 +0200, Adam Borowski a écrit :
Hell no. I'd go as far as labelling it a severity:critical bug.
Go ahead, reporting bugs doesn’t necessarily get people to give a fuck.
If some part of the system has something important to say, you need to tell
it to the user
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 12:46:50PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le samedi 15 octobre 2011 à 12:36 +0200, Adam Borowski a écrit :
Hell no. I'd go as far as labelling it a severity:critical bug.
Go ahead, reporting bugs doesn’t necessarily get people to give a fuck.
So causes serious data
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le vendredi 14 octobre 2011 à 11:32 -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a
écrit :
I seem to recall our super duper memory-bloated DEs were not even
warning the user when something was screaming blood murder on the
emergency, alert and critical
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 12:46:50PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le samedi 15 octobre 2011 à 12:36 +0200, Adam Borowski a écrit :
Hell no. I'd go as far as labelling it a severity:critical bug.
Go ahead, reporting bugs doesn’t necessarily get
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 04:02:09PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, Josh Triplett wrote:
End-user systems (desktops, laptops) typically handle mail via one
or more smarthosts elsewhere, driven by MUAs that know how to talk
SMTP.
While this definitely is the current state,
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 10:35:13AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 10:17:38 +0200, Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
wrote:
...
- Taking time to download and install, which increases the time and
bandwidth needed to install or upgrade a Debian system.
Please drop
On Sat, 2011-10-15 at 09:53 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 04:02:09PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, Josh Triplett wrote:
End-user systems (desktops, laptops) typically handle mail via one
or more smarthosts elsewhere, driven by MUAs that know how
Steve Langasek wrote:
How do I deliver mail? is a per-system setting, not a per-application
setting, and the move towards having MUAs talking SMTP directly to send
mail is a flawed model picked up on the Linux desktop from certain other
OSes.
No, How do I deliver mail? represents a per-user
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 09:53:32AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
Hear, hear. How do I deliver mail? is a per-system setting, not a
per-application setting, and the move towards having MUAs talking SMTP
directly to send mail is a flawed model picked up on the Linux desktop from
certain other
Josh Triplett wrote:
What would it take to make this change?
I will happily work to coordinate this transition.
For me this thread raises two interesting questions. The first is the one
Josh asks above, which has not been answered. How do we make decisions
about the content of standard? How
Jonas Meurer wrote:
Thanks to Josh for starting this discussion. I think that you summarized
most arguments very well in your mail.
Thank you for your very clear explanation of the issue, as well.
Am 12.10.2011 23:39, schrieb Josh Triplett:
Not every system needs an MTA, and I'd argue that
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 06:53:02PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
Hear, hear. How do I deliver mail? is a per-system setting, not a
per-application setting,
It's not per-system, or even per-user.
If I want to send mail from my personal address I should send it through
my own smarthost. If
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 06:33:14PM +, brian m. carlson wrote:
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 09:53:32AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
Hear, hear. How do I deliver mail? is a per-system setting, not a
per-application setting, and the move towards having MUAs talking SMTP
directly to send mail
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 08:34:52PM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
The main reasons to stop having an MTA in standard:
- Starting a daemon at boot time, which slows down booting. This led me
to notice the problem in Debian Live: it took a non-trivial amount of
time for the boot process to
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 14:56:15 -0400
Joey Hess jo...@debian.org wrote:
My other question comes from policy:
`standard'
These packages provide a reasonably small but not too limited
character-mode system. This is what will be installed by default
if the
Le samedi 15 octobre 2011 à 10:50 -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a
écrit :
Well, if anything logs on emergency and alert levels, it is a bug if it is
*not* important enough to pester all logged users immediately. It is an
even more clearcut case.
Let me ask the question otherwise: what
* Neil Williams (codeh...@debian.org) [111015 22:23]:
The problem with Standard is that it is currently (and heavily) biased
towards multi-user servers and most of the replies in this thread which
decry the absence of an MTA would appear to come from those principally
concerned with servers.
Steve Langasek wrote:
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 06:53:02PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
Hear, hear. How do I deliver mail? is a per-system setting, not a
per-application setting,
It's not per-system, or even per-user.
If I want to send mail from my personal address I should send it
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
Steve Langasek wrote:
Needing to send mail through specific per-user smarthosts is the
exception, not the rule. Most machines have a designated forwarding
smarthost based on who their ISP is, not based on which email address
someone wants to use.
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:29:56 +0200
Andreas Barth a...@not.so.argh.org wrote:
* Neil Williams (codeh...@debian.org) [111015 22:23]:
The problem with Standard is that it is currently (and heavily) biased
towards multi-user servers and most of the replies in this thread which
decry the
Andreas Barth wrote:
* Neil Williams (codeh...@debian.org) [111015 22:23]:
The problem with Standard is that it is currently (and heavily) biased
towards multi-user servers and most of the replies in this thread which
decry the absence of an MTA would appear to come from those principally
Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org writes:
Let me ask the question otherwise: what kind of information do you think
is important enough to show to all logged users immediately?
If the system runs out of memory and starts up the OOM killer, it would be
nice to find some way to give the user a
On 2011-10-15, Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org wrote:
MTAs would need to advance quite a bit to get anywhere near as usable as
a MUA that speaks SMTP, not least of which in error reporting. (Most of
the people I know who run local MTAs have had at least one all my mail
got stuck in a
Joey Hess wrote:
Josh Triplett wrote:
What would it take to make this change?
I will happily work to coordinate this transition.
For me this thread raises two interesting questions. The first is the one
Josh asks above, which has not been answered. How do we make decisions
about the
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Simon McVittie wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 at 16:02:09 -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, Josh Triplett wrote:
End-user systems (desktops, laptops) typically handle mail via one
or more smarthosts elsewhere, driven by MUAs that know how to talk
SMTP.
On 10/15/11 22:06, Steve Langasek wrote:
Needing to send mail through specific per-user smarthosts is the exception,
not the rule. Most machines have a designated forwarding smarthost based on
who their ISP is, not based on which email address someone wants to use.
The exception to which
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote:
If I want to send mail from my personal address I should send it
through my own smarthost. If I want to send mail from my work
address I *must* send it through the work smarthost (thanks to SPF).
I could possibly configure this at the MTA level, but no
Neil Williams wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:29:56 +0200
Andreas Barth a...@not.so.argh.org wrote:
* Neil Williams (codeh...@debian.org) [111015 22:23]:
The problem with Standard is that it is currently (and heavily) biased
towards multi-user servers and most of the replies in this thread
On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 12:59:58AM +0300, Faidon Liambotis wrote:
On 10/15/11 22:06, Steve Langasek wrote:
Needing to send mail through specific per-user smarthosts is the exception,
not the rule. Most machines have a designated forwarding smarthost based on
who their ISP is, not based on
Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl writes:
This is not about outside mail, it's about local mail that originates
from the system itself, cron jobs and so on.
And I seriously hope no one proposes to remove cron.
I think it's pretty obvious that we need some way of notifying people
about cron
Philipp Kern wrote:
On 2011-10-15, Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org wrote:
MTAs would need to advance quite a bit to get anywhere near as usable as
a MUA that speaks SMTP, not least of which in error reporting. (Most of
the people I know who run local MTAs have had at least one all my
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
As far as I know, Priority has the following non-cosmetic uses:
[...]
A couple more:
One and only one conflicting alternative provider of a particular
exclusive API or interface may have priority higher than extra according
to Policy, so priority
Don Armstrong wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Ben Hutchings wrote:
If I want to send mail from my personal address I should send it
through my own smarthost. If I want to send mail from my work
address I *must* send it through the work smarthost (thanks to SPF).
I could possibly configure
Steve Langasek wrote:
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 08:34:52PM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
The main reasons to stop having an MTA in standard:
- Starting a daemon at boot time, which slows down booting. This led me
to notice the problem in Debian Live: it took a non-trivial amount of
time
On Sat, 2011-10-15 at 14:55 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org writes:
Let me ask the question otherwise: what kind of information do you think
is important enough to show to all logged users immediately?
If the system runs out of memory and starts up the OOM
Am 2011-10-13 13:06:49, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 12:02:11PM +0200, Luca Capello wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 05:34:52 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
For most users, these questions will duplicate the process
they later go through to configure their MUA.
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 10:17:38 +0200, Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
wrote:
...
- Taking time to download and install, which increases the time and
bandwidth needed to install or upgrade a Debian system.
Please drop the upgrade. If you deinstall it there is no cost at
upgrading.
I
* Philip Hands p...@hands.com [111014 11:50]:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 10:17:38 +0200, Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
wrote:
- Taking time to download and install, which increases the time and
bandwidth needed to install or upgrade a Debian system.
Please drop the upgrade. If you
* Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org [111013 22:42]:
Then deinstall it.
Every point you just stated applies equally well to every daemon we
don't install by default; you haven't given any reason why an MTA needs
to exist by default.
Those points are only there to make clear that your
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Luca Capello wrote:
- Starting a daemon at boot time, which slows down booting. This led me
to notice the problem in Debian Live: it took a non-trivial amount of
time for the boot process to finish starting exim and move on.
I experienced the same in the past on
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Josh Triplett wrote:
Possibly. The system I booted Debian Live on also had no network
connection. But either way, exim takes a non-zero amount of time to
Nowadays, you really need to properly setup non-networked systems
correctly, to avoid being pestered by timeouts. I
On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 14:05:34 +0200
Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org wrote:
My brother comes to mind -- he's pretty happy with Debian and if he
didn't know me it's _just_ possible that he'd have installed it himself,
but would have simply accepted every default. He uses icedove as his
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Josh Triplett wrote:
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 10:57:29PM +0200, Frank Steinborn wrote:
Josh Triplett wrote:
...which produce output to somewhere other than a log file, in some
scenario other than being buggy and accidentally producing output, and
which expect end
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Paul Wise wrote:
As someone who runs Debian on his smartphone, I completely agree with
making an MTA optional.
Eh, it is not essential, just standard. You want Debian standard to be
tailored for smartphone use? Isn't that a much better job done through a
Debian pure
Le vendredi 14 octobre 2011 à 11:32 -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a
écrit :
I seem to recall our super duper memory-bloated DEs were not even
warning the user when something was screaming blood murder on the
emergency, alert and critical priorities in syslog until wheezy... That
absurd
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, Josh Triplett wrote:
End-user systems (desktops, laptops) typically handle mail via one
or more smarthosts elsewhere, driven by MUAs that know how to talk
SMTP.
While this definitely is the current state, it's not optimal. It would
be ideal to have an MTA like esmtp or
Hi there!
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 03:18:04 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
The 30-35% figure for users who have removed exim still make sense,
though, to the extent that popcon numbers for a package with priority =
standard can make sense.
In any case, I didn't intend the popcon numbers as any kind
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:46:19 +0200
Luca Capello l...@pca.it wrote:
Hi there!
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 03:18:04 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
The 30-35% figure for users who have removed exim still make sense,
though, to the extent that popcon numbers for a package with priority =
standard can
* Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org [111013 05:51]:
Users can easily install an MTA; why do they need one *by default* on
every Debian system they install?
Because the system is not in a useful state without. If you want to
cripple your system, just deinstall it.
The main reasons to stop
On Do, Okt 13, 2011 at 00:41:43 (CEST), Bjørn Mork wrote:
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
What would it take to make this change?
Changing the LSB. Or you need to keep the sendmail interface. Which is
what mail-transport-agent provides.
Why does LSB need to be fulfilled in
Hi there!
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 05:34:52 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
Bjørn Mork wrote:
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
Have I missed any important points?
You forgot to explain the upside, reason, why, gain, whatever.
Re-reading my original mail, you're right, I do seem to have
* Luca Capello l...@pca.it [111013 12:02]:
- Starting a daemon at boot time, which slows down booting. This led me
to notice the problem in Debian Live: it took a non-trivial amount of
time for the boot process to finish starting exim and move on.
I experienced the same in the past on
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 at 10:17:38 +0200, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
* Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org [111013 05:51]:
Users can easily install an MTA; why do they need one *by default* on
every Debian system they install?
Because the system is not in a useful state without. If you want to
Luca Capello wrote:
I disagree on that, according to popcon we have 19.27% of users has
postfix installed, which could mean that ~90% of users has an MTA
installed.
Doesn't popcon itself send reports by email? Meaning that 100% of all
reports from popcon have an MTA installed?
Bob
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:13:47AM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
Luca Capello wrote:
I disagree on that, according to popcon we have 19.27% of users has
postfix installed, which could mean that ~90% of users has an MTA
installed.
Doesn't popcon itself send reports by email? Meaning that 100%
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 12:02:11PM +0200, Luca Capello wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 05:34:52 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
Bjørn Mork wrote:
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
Have I missed any important points?
You forgot to explain the upside, reason, why, gain, whatever.
Wouter Verhelst wrote:
Bob Proulx wrote:
Doesn't popcon itself send reports by email? Meaning that 100% of all
reports from popcon have an MTA installed?
No, popcon can also report through HTTP.
Ah... Very good. I stand corrected. And what's more, looking it
over it appears that using
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 10:17:38AM +0200, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
* Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org [111013 05:51]:
Users can easily install an MTA; why do they need one *by default* on
every Debian system they install?
Because the system is not in a useful state without. If you want
Josh Triplett wrote:
...which produce output to somewhere other than a log file, in some
scenario other than being buggy and accidentally producing output, and
which expect end users to read their output, and which therefore expect
that the end user has configured root's mail to go somewhere
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 10:57:29PM +0200, Frank Steinborn wrote:
Josh Triplett wrote:
...which produce output to somewhere other than a log file, in some
scenario other than being buggy and accidentally producing output, and
which expect end users to read their output, and which therefore
Hello Josh Triplett,
Am 2011-10-13 13:06:49, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 12:02:11PM +0200, Luca Capello wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 05:34:52 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
For most users, these questions will duplicate the process
they later go through to
Hello Paul,
Am 2011-10-13 12:13:56, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
The user will not be notified even if the daemons send a mail to them.
I don't think any of the desktops GUIs that we ship know anything
about the local mail queue unless explicitly configured in an MUA, nor
do they notify
Michelle Konzack linux4miche...@tamay-dogan.net writes:
Am 2011-10-13 12:13:56, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
The user will not be notified even if the daemons send a mail to
them. I don't think any of the desktops GUIs that we ship know
anything about the local mail queue unless
I recently booted up a Debian Live standard image on a test system,
and noticed that it included a running instance of exim. Curious why a
live system would need an MTA, I found Debian Live's policy that the
standard image contains everything installed as part of a standard
Debian system (and
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
What would it take to make this change?
Changing the LSB. Or you need to keep the sendmail interface. Which is
what mail-transport-agent provides.
Have I missed any important points?
You forgot to explain the upside, reason, why, gain, whatever.
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 02:39:13PM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
Popcon shows that ~65-70% of Debian systems have exim4 installed.
30-35% of users cared enough to remove exim, and another 7% or so seem to
have configured their systems to stop running it (at boot or otherwise)
without actually
Adam Borowski wrote:
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 02:39:13PM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
Popcon shows that ~65-70% of Debian systems have exim4 installed.
30-35% of users cared enough to remove exim, and another 7% or so seem to
have configured their systems to stop running it (at boot or
Bjørn Mork wrote:
Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org writes:
What would it take to make this change?
Changing the LSB. Or you need to keep the sendmail interface. Which is
what mail-transport-agent provides.
lsb-core provides the LSB interface, and it has priority extra, not
standard. It
As someone who runs Debian on his smartphone, I completely agree with
making an MTA optional.
--
bye,
pabs
http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
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Archive:
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:45 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
That would break their system as daemons have no way to notify the user
something is wrong.
The user will not be notified even if the daemons send a mail to them.
I don't think any of the desktops GUIs that we ship know anything
about the
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