Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-28 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le dimanche 27 août 2006 à 19:12 +0200, Adeodato Simó a écrit : > bzrtools > 0.9 does not put files under /usr/lib/python2.4, since it > uses python-support; and its maintainer scripts for < 0.9 did not > bytecompile the modules, so the most plausible explanation for .pyc > files in /usr/lib/python

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Raphael Hertzog
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, Adeodato Simó wrote: > * Brian May [Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:22:55 +1000]: > > > Adeodate> Also, do you remember having root > > Adeodato> bzr as root? > > > Huh? > > Sorry, that should have read: "do you remember having *run* bzr as root". > It's the most likely cause fo

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Brian May
> "Adeodato" == Adeodato <"=?utf-8?B?U2ltw7M=?=" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > writes: Adeodato> Sorry, that should have read: "do you remember having Adeodato> *run* bzr as root". It's the most likely cause for Adeodato> those .pyc files to be there, since bzrtools did not. No -

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Brian May [Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:22:55 +1000]: > Adeodate> Also, do you remember having root > Adeodato> bzr as root? > Huh? Sorry, that should have read: "do you remember having *run* bzr as root". It's the most likely cause for those .pyc files to be there, since bzrtools did not. Tha

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Brian May
> "Adeodato" == Adeodato <"=?utf-8?B?U2ltw7M=?=" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > writes: Adeodato> Hm. I'd say that you have .pyc files left in: Adeodato> Adeodato> /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/bzrtools Adeodato> Can you check, please? Yes, see below. Ad

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Adeodato Simó
Version: 0.9-1 * Brian May [Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:43:24 +1000]: > Robert> Could you please run 'bzr upgrade' while using bzr > Robert> 0.9rc1. If my guess at your situation is right this will > Robert> take a while to run, but correct your performance issues. > >> Did I do somethin

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Brian May
> "Adeodato" == Adeodato <"=?utf-8?B?U2ltw7M=?=" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > writes: Robert> Could you please run 'bzr upgrade' while using bzr Robert> 0.9rc1. If my guess at your situation is right this will Robert> take a while to run, but correct your performance issues. >

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-26 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Brian May [Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:53:01 +1000]: > > "Robert" == Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Robert> On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: > >> Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive > >> appears to be converted successfully - i

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-26 Thread Brian May
> "Robert" == Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Robert> On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: >> Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive >> appears to be converted successfully - if I do a diff >> operation, it reports all files as

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-14 Thread David Nusinow
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 10:28:58PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > On Wed, 02 Aug 2006, David Nusinow wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:56:44PM +0200, Adeodato Simó wrote: > > > * David Nusinow [Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:37:23 +]: > > > > > > > (I'm seriously > > > > interested in setting up git

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-12 Thread Robert Collins
On Sat, 2006-08-12 at 15:59 +1000, Brian May wrote: > > "Robert" == Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Robert> On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: > >> Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive > >> appears to be converted successfu

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-12 Thread Raphael Hertzog
On Wed, 02 Aug 2006, David Nusinow wrote: > On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:56:44PM +0200, Adeodato Simó wrote: > > * David Nusinow [Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:37:23 +]: > > > > > (I'm seriously > > > interested in setting up git.debian.org for XSF work, for example*), > > > > > * If anyone else is inter

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-11 Thread Lars Wirzenius
la, 2006-08-12 kello 15:59 +1000, Brian May kirjoitti: > Are there any Debian packages of 0.9rc1 available? http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/bzr says 0.9~rc1-1. (Lookup time: about ten seconds. :) -- On a clear disk, you seek forever. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] wi

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-11 Thread Brian May
> "Robert" == Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Robert> On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: >> Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive >> appears to be converted successfully - if I do a diff >> operation, it reports all files as

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-09 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Toni Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi, > > On Mon, 31.07.2006 at 14:54:50 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow <[EMAIL > PROTECTED]> wrote: >> With cdbs as negative and alitoh/svn as positive? > > what are your problems with CDBS? > > > Best, > --Toni++ Lets just have a short comment. For more se

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-08 Thread Christian Aichinger
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 11:02:15AM +0200, Toni Mueller wrote: > On Mon, 07.08.2006 at 12:52:26 +0100, martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > also sprach Toni Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.07.1126 +0100]: > > > what are your problems with CDBS? > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-de

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-08 Thread Toni Mueller
Hi, On Mon, 07.08.2006 at 12:52:26 +0100, martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > also sprach Toni Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.07.1126 +0100]: > > what are your problems with CDBS? > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/06/msg00451.html > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/20

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-07 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Toni Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.07.1126 +0100]: > what are your problems with CDBS? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/06/msg00451.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/06/msg00467.html -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-07 Thread Toni Mueller
Hi, On Mon, 31.07.2006 at 14:54:50 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > With cdbs as negative and alitoh/svn as positive? what are your problems with CDBS? Best, --Toni++ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EM

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-05 Thread Robert Collins
On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: > > Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive appears > to be converted successfully - if I do a diff operation, it reports > all files as deleted, but if I try to revert it, it slows to a > grinding halt. Could you please

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-05 Thread Brian May
> "Robert" == Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Robert> Its likely to be a different bug - the conversion approach Robert> used for svn/baz is very different. That said, conversion Robert> from $any system is going to use more memory than native Robert> bzr operations,

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-05 Thread Robert Collins
On Sat, 2006-08-05 at 10:58 +1000, Brian May wrote: > > "Robert" == Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Robert> Are you doing conversions from SVN? Current bzr uses 20MB > Robert> of ram to do a native branch operation in similar > Robert> circumstances. (bug report gets

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-04 Thread Brian May
> "Robert" == Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Robert> Are you doing conversions from SVN? Current bzr uses 20MB Robert> of ram to do a native branch operation in similar Robert> circumstances. (bug report gets fixed, new at 11 :)). No, this was a conversion from baz. Mi

Re: Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-04 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060801 18:17]: > also sprach Bernhard R. Link <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1701 +0100]: > > Missing $(DESTDIR)s in Makefiles are an example. Especially when the > > install part was DESTDIRified, but the test before if the file is > > already there (as make

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Robert Collins
On Fri, 2006-08-04 at 09:56 +1000, Brian May wrote: > For documentation on checkouts and bound branches, see > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/CheckoutTutorial > > http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrUsingBoundBranches > > However, I am not convinced the following paragraph in the first > page is correct: > > "

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Brian May
> "Adeodato" == Adeodato <"=?utf-8?B?U2ltw7M=?=" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > writes: Adeodato> But if you have a set of equal developers, bzr can be Adeodato> also used in a very similar way to Subversion, where all Adeodato> commits go to a central repository, and nobody has to

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Otavio Salvador
Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 08:27 -0300, Otavio Salvador wrote: >> Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >> > bzr is also working on a high performance server at the moment, which >> > will operate over either a socketpair - i.e. tunnelling via ssh (

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Robert Collins
On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 08:27 -0300, Otavio Salvador wrote: > Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > bzr is also working on a high performance server at the moment, which > > will operate over either a socketpair - i.e. tunnelling via ssh (which > > can still be done without granting shell

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Otavio Salvador
Robert Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > bzr is also working on a high performance server at the moment, which > will operate over either a socketpair - i.e. tunnelling via ssh (which > can still be done without granting shell access), or over plain http via > an apache rewrite rule. Is it al

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Robert Collins
On Wed, 2006-08-02 at 22:29 +0200, Christoph Haas wrote: > > That's in fact an issue that made me feel sceptical about bzr, darcs > and > mercury. All of them require a shell account or some scripting through > a > special mail address to commit changes. And it's not only the recent > kernel vu

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread David Nusinow
On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:56:44PM +0200, Adeodato Simó wrote: > * David Nusinow [Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:37:23 +]: > > > (I'm seriously > > interested in setting up git.debian.org for XSF work, for example*), > > > * If anyone else is interested in this, contact me and we'll talk > > There is _

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread Adeodato Simó
* David Nusinow [Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:37:23 +]: > (I'm seriously > interested in setting up git.debian.org for XSF work, for example*), > * If anyone else is interested in this, contact me and we'll talk There is _something_ in costa:/srv/git.debian.org/git already. Cheers, -- Adeodato Sim

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread David Nusinow
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 12:44:19PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.0005 +0100]: > > Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in > > Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course > > plenty of challen

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread David Nusinow
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:08:06PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: > > > On Aug 01, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for > >> serious work. > > That's a bold statement.

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Roland Mas
Adeodato Simó, 2006-08-02 21:20:09 +0200 : >> > % bzr push sftp://costa.debian.org/bzr/pkg-xiph/vorbis-tools [...] > Ask in #alioth. Note, however, that TTBOMK still does not offer HTTP > access, so if you want that, better stick to htdocs for a while. > > I hope to be able to bribe buxy to pr

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Christoph Haas
On Wednesday 02 August 2006 21:44, Otavio Salvador wrote: > Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > * Otavio Salvador [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:43:56 -0300]: > >> Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > Then each developer can prepare a set of changes offline, do all > >> > the branching,

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Otavio Salvador
Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > * Otavio Salvador [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:43:56 -0300]: > >> Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > Then each developer can prepare a set of changes offline, do all the >> > branching, merging, commiting and uncommiting (gotta love that) that >> >

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Otavio Salvador [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:43:56 -0300]: > Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Then each developer can prepare a set of changes offline, do all the > > branching, merging, commiting and uncommiting (gotta love that) that > > they want, and when they're done, do e.g.: > >

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Thijs Kinkhorst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.02.1020 +0100]: > > This shouldn't need snapshot.debian.net, right? > > If the bug is claimed to be fixed in the changelog of 2.0-5 and the > current sid version is 2.0-7, I don't know another way to see the diff > between 2.0-4 and 2.0-5, s

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread Thijs Kinkhorst
On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 20:57 +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > > I'm using it when porting security fixes to sarge. If the maintainer has > > fixed a security bug in sid, I download that version and the version > > before and can see right away what exactly he changed to fix the bug. > > This shouldn

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread Pierre Machard
Hi, On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:31:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > also sprach Pierre Machard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: > > snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull) > > This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control > for packaging --

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Dale C. Scheetz
Stuff deleted > > I have cdebootstrap do create chroots, dchroot to use them, > buildd/sbuild to test compile under true buildd conditions. Why would > I want something else? > I'm not sure I know, but now that I know about this pair, I will certainly look into it. After that, if I can answer yo

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Robert Collins
On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 19:44 +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > also sprach Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1936 +0100]: > > Forgot to add that it can be even _identical_ to subversion, in the > > sense that you don't have to commit locally, and then push. Just make a > > "checkout" (refe

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Thijs Kinkhorst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1537 +0100]: > > Could you give me some insights, please, into how snapshot.d.n is > > useful? Don't get me wrong, I also find it useful, but mostly from > > the administrator perspective, I've not really used it as > > a developer. > >

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:31:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > Could you give me some insights, please, into how snapshot.d.n is > useful? Don't get me wrong, I also find it useful, but mostly from > the administrator perspective, I've not really used it as > a developer. Testing of various up

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Otavio Salvador
Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Then each developer can prepare a set of changes offline, do all the > branching, merging, commiting and uncommiting (gotta love that) that > they want, and when they're done, do e.g.: > > % bzr push sftp://costa.debian.org/bzr/pkg-xiph/vorbis-tools W

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1936 +0100]: > Forgot to add that it can be even _identical_ to subversion, in the > sense that you don't have to commit locally, and then push. Just make a > "checkout" (refer to the bzr docs), and every commit you make will go to > the mai

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Mark Brown
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 07:19:19PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > Yes, and I wanted to know why he thought that is the case. I believe > Christoph has given a good account of the reasons. If you have > anything to add, please do! There's also the fact that well known teams like the installer and

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Adeodato Simó [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 20:31:37 +0200]: > they want, and when they're done, do e.g.: > % bzr push sftp://costa.debian.org/bzr/pkg-xiph/vorbis-tools Forgot to add that it can be even _identical_ to subversion, in the sense that you don't have to commit locally, and then push. Just ma

centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Christoph Haas [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 17:33:15 +0200]: Hi, > No offense intended - honestly - but the problem of passing > patches/patchsets around between the maintainers is really a problem. In > Subversion I know where the authoritative instance lies that is the master > instance keeping the c

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Andreas Metzler
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > also sprach Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1907 +0100]: [...] >> I assumed he meant it in the sense that more teams seem to be >> using subversion on alioth than any other RCS. [...] > Yes, and I wanted to know why he thought that is the case.

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Andreas Metzler
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > also sprach Pierre Machard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: >> snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull > This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control > for packaging -- which could also make packages

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1907 +0100]: > > I'd be interested in your thoughts as to why subversion beats them > > all, in your perception. > > I assumed he meant it in the sense that more teams seem to be > using subversion on alioth than any other RCS. Ie, compare > th

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Joey Hess
martin f krafft wrote: > also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.0005 +0100]: > > Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in > > Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course > > plenty of challengers, but subversion seems to beat them al

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Otavio Salvador <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1804 +0100]: > > FYI: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrForeignBranches/Subversion > > Have you tryed it? Not productively. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :'

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Otavio Salvador
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Thanks, Christoph, I think you argued a good case! > >> I'll probably use bzr when I need to keep something revisioned >> without much fuss just to save the time for "svnadmin create" and >> a DAV share on my Apache. But for everything else I think I'l

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Joe Smith
"Goswin von Brederlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: On Aug 01, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. -- c

Re: Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Bernhard R. Link <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1701 +0100]: > Missing $(DESTDIR)s in Makefiles are an example. Especially when the > install part was DESTDIRified, but the test before if the file is > already there (as make install does not want to overwrite a config file) > was forgo

Re: Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060801 15:29]: > also sprach Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1221 +0100]: > > Building in chroots *hides* bugs. > > Uh, what? Please give an example. Missing $(DESTDIR)s in Makefiles are an example. Especially when the install part was DESTDIRif

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
Thanks, Christoph, I think you argued a good case! > I'll probably use bzr when I need to keep something revisioned > without much fuss just to save the time for "svnadmin create" and > a DAV share on my Apache. But for everything else I think I'll > stay with Subversion. And while I haven't tried

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Simon Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi, > > martin f krafft wrote: > >>> Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in >>> Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course >>> plenty of challengers, but subversion seems to beat them all. > >> I'd be int

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Christoph Haas
On Tuesday 01 August 2006 13:44, martin f krafft wrote: > also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.0005 +0100]: > > Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in > > Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course > > plenty of challengers, bu

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Roger Leigh
Christian Aichinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 10:24:32AM +, Reinhard Tartler wrote: >> The sbuild package in debian however adds more features, like >> schroot support. With this, it can use schroot to create >> temporary, clean chroots from tarballs, block devices,

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Roberto C. Sanchez
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:31:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > also sprach Pierre Machard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: > > snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull > > This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control > for packaging -- which

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Lars Wirzenius
ti, 2006-08-01 kello 15:31 +0100, martin f krafft kirjoitti: > also sprach Pierre Machard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: > > snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull > > This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control > for packaging -- which coul

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Thijs Kinkhorst
On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 15:31 +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > Could you give me some insights, please, into how snapshot.d.n is > useful? Don't get me wrong, I also find it useful, but mostly from > the administrator perspective, I've not really used it as > a developer. I'm using it when porting s

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Steinar H. Gunderson
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:31:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > Could you give me some insights, please, into how snapshot.d.n is > useful? Don't get me wrong, I also find it useful, but mostly from > the administrator perspective, I've not really used it as > a developer. Binary searching for

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Pierre Machard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: > snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control for packaging -- which could also make packages from the past accessible. Could you give me some

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Pierre Machard
Hi, On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: [...] > While I already have a good selection, I am on the look for more. > Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped > Debian development for a large number of people? Or do you remember > a tool that

Re: Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
On 8/1/06, martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: also sprach Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1221 +0100]: > Building in chroots *hides* bugs. Uh, what? Please give an example. The only example I can think of is programs that use configure to include support for anything they

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Simon Richter
Hi, martin f krafft wrote: >> Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in >> Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course >> plenty of challengers, but subversion seems to beat them all. > I'd be interested in your thoughts as to why subversion beats th

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Christian Aichinger
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 10:24:32AM +, Reinhard Tartler wrote: > The sbuild package in debian however adds more features, like > schroot support. With this, it can use schroot to create > temporary, clean chroots from tarballs, block devices, create lvm > snapshots on the fly and so on. I read R

Re: Building in chroots (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Eduard Bloch
#include * Frank Küster [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 01:55:14PM]: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) wrote: > > > On Aug 01, Eduard Bloch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > > Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for > >> > > serious work. > >> > That's a bold statement. > >>

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: > On Aug 01, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for >> serious work. > That's a bold statement. > > -- > ciao, > Marco Never used either one. I have cdebootstrap do create chroo

Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1221 +0100]: > Building in chroots *hides* bugs. Uh, what? Please give an example. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' :proud Debian developer and au

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.0005 +0100]: > Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in > Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course > plenty of challengers, but subversion seems to beat them all. I'd be interested in your t

Building in chroots (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Frank Küster
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) wrote: > On Aug 01, Eduard Bloch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for >> > > serious work. >> > That's a bold statement. >> Are you serious? (SCNR ;-) > Yes. I do not use either and I think I have

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Frank Küster
Reinhard Tartler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Frank Küster wrote: >>> There is also sbuild (which may be used with or without schroot to >>> manage the chroot). I prefer it to pbuilder, but I may be a little >>> biased ;-) >> >> Isn't sbuild usually using a permanently unpacked chroot which persi

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Aug 01, Eduard Bloch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for > > > serious work. > > That's a bold statement. > Are you serious? (SCNR ;-) Yes. I do not use either and I think I have been doing serious Debian work so far. Building i

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Reinhard Tartler
Frank Küster wrote: >> There is also sbuild (which may be used with or without schroot to >> manage the chroot). I prefer it to pbuilder, but I may be a little >> biased ;-) > > Isn't sbuild usually using a permanently unpacked chroot which persists > between different invocations of the tool? Th

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Frank Küster
Roger Leigh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> I think maintainers should really build and test their packages in >> clean sid chroots. It's not important Whether these are set up with >> debootstrap or any other method, and whether the handling is done >>

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Roger Leigh
Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Eduard Bloch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> #include >> * Marco d'Itri [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 09:53:21AM]: >>> On Aug 01, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> > Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for >>> > serious

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Frank Küster
Eduard Bloch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > #include > * Marco d'Itri [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 09:53:21AM]: >> On Aug 01, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for >> > serious work. >> That's a bold statement. > > Are you seri

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Aníbal Monsalve Salazar
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 10:06:05AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: >#include >* Marco d'Itri [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 09:53:21AM]: >>On Aug 01, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>>Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for >>>serious work. += piuparts >>That's a bold s

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Eduard Bloch
#include * Marco d'Itri [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 09:53:21AM]: > On Aug 01, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for > > serious work. > That's a bold statement. Are you serious? (SCNR ;-) No, debootstrap is an important toy b

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Aug 01, David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for > serious work. That's a bold statement. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread David Nusinow
On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > Dear fellow developers, > > As many of you know, I am conducting research on Debian, > specifically on how Debian developers adopt or reject new methods of > package maintenance. I would like to get a broad collection of data > for

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread Hendrik Sattler
Am Montag 31 Juli 2006 17:08 schrieb Frank Küster: > Goswin von Brederlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Michael Banck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > >>> Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped > >>> D

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread Frank Küster
Goswin von Brederlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Michael Banck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: >>> Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped >>> Debian development for a large number of people? [...] > H

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.07.30.2139 +0100]: > I have Reply-To set for fear of horrible flame wars when one DD > bashes another one's favourite tool, but I will make the results > public, obviously. Thus, I appreciate if you could take the time to > drop me a short note

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Michael Banck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: >> Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped >> Debian development for a large number of people? > > CDBS and alioth/svn.debian.org. > > > HTH, > > Michael With

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-30 Thread Michael Banck
On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped > Debian development for a large number of people? CDBS and alioth/svn.debian.org. HTH, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subjec

Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-30 Thread martin f krafft
Dear fellow developers, As many of you know, I am conducting research on Debian, specifically on how Debian developers adopt or reject new methods of package maintenance. I would like to get a broad collection of data for the first part of my research, which is the study of tools that have been su