Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-28 Thread Raphael Hertzog
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, Adeodato Simó wrote: * Brian May [Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:22:55 +1000]: Adeodate Also, do you remember having root Adeodato bzr as root? Huh? Sorry, that should have read: do you remember having *run* bzr as root. It's the most likely cause for those .pyc

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-28 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le dimanche 27 août 2006 à 19:12 +0200, Adeodato Simó a écrit : bzrtools 0.9 does not put files under /usr/lib/python2.4, since it uses python-support; and its maintainer scripts for 0.9 did not bytecompile the modules, so the most plausible explanation for .pyc files in /usr/lib/python2.4

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Brian May
Adeodato == Adeodato =?utf-8?B?U2ltw7M=?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert Could you please run 'bzr upgrade' while using bzr Robert 0.9rc1. If my guess at your situation is right this will Robert take a while to run, but correct your performance issues. Did I do something

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Adeodato Simó
Version: 0.9-1 * Brian May [Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:43:24 +1000]: Robert Could you please run 'bzr upgrade' while using bzr Robert 0.9rc1. If my guess at your situation is right this will Robert take a while to run, but correct your performance issues. Did I do something wrong?

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Brian May
Adeodato == Adeodato =?utf-8?B?U2ltw7M=?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Adeodato Hm. I'd say that you have .pyc files left in: Adeodato Adeodato /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/bzrtools Adeodato Can you check, please? Yes, see below. Adeodate Also, do you

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Brian May [Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:22:55 +1000]: Adeodate Also, do you remember having root Adeodato bzr as root? Huh? Sorry, that should have read: do you remember having *run* bzr as root. It's the most likely cause for those .pyc files to be there, since bzrtools did not. Thanks,

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-27 Thread Brian May
Adeodato == Adeodato =?utf-8?B?U2ltw7M=?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Adeodato Sorry, that should have read: do you remember having Adeodato *run* bzr as root. It's the most likely cause for Adeodato those .pyc files to be there, since bzrtools did not. No - I don't recall running

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-26 Thread Brian May
Robert == Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive appears to be converted successfully - if I do a diff operation, it reports all files as deleted, but if

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-26 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Brian May [Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:53:01 +1000]: Robert == Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive appears to be converted successfully - if I do a diff

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-14 Thread David Nusinow
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 10:28:58PM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: On Wed, 02 Aug 2006, David Nusinow wrote: On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:56:44PM +0200, Adeodato Simó wrote: * David Nusinow [Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:37:23 +]: (I'm seriously interested in setting up git.debian.org for

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-12 Thread Brian May
Robert == Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive appears to be converted successfully - if I do a diff operation, it reports all files as deleted, but

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-12 Thread Lars Wirzenius
la, 2006-08-12 kello 15:59 +1000, Brian May kirjoitti: Are there any Debian packages of 0.9rc1 available? http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/bzr says 0.9~rc1-1. (Lookup time: about ten seconds. :) -- On a clear disk, you seek forever. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-12 Thread Raphael Hertzog
On Wed, 02 Aug 2006, David Nusinow wrote: On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:56:44PM +0200, Adeodato Simó wrote: * David Nusinow [Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:37:23 +]: (I'm seriously interested in setting up git.debian.org for XSF work, for example*), * If anyone else is interested in this,

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-12 Thread Robert Collins
On Sat, 2006-08-12 at 15:59 +1000, Brian May wrote: Robert == Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive appears to be converted successfully - if I do a

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-09 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Toni Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, On Mon, 31.07.2006 at 14:54:50 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With cdbs as negative and alitoh/svn as positive? what are your problems with CDBS? Best, --Toni++ Lets just have a short comment. For more search the

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-08 Thread Toni Mueller
Hi, On Mon, 07.08.2006 at 12:52:26 +0100, martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also sprach Toni Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.07.1126 +0100]: what are your problems with CDBS? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/06/msg00451.html

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-08 Thread Christian Aichinger
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 11:02:15AM +0200, Toni Mueller wrote: On Mon, 07.08.2006 at 12:52:26 +0100, martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also sprach Toni Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.07.1126 +0100]: what are your problems with CDBS?

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-07 Thread Toni Mueller
Hi, On Mon, 31.07.2006 at 14:54:50 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With cdbs as negative and alitoh/svn as positive? what are your problems with CDBS? Best, --Toni++ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-07 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Toni Mueller [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.07.1126 +0100]: what are your problems with CDBS? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/06/msg00451.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/06/msg00467.html -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`.

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-06 Thread Robert Collins
On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 12:01 +1000, Brian May wrote: Curiously though, the problems continue even after the archive appears to be converted successfully - if I do a diff operation, it reports all files as deleted, but if I try to revert it, it slows to a grinding halt. Could you please run

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-05 Thread Robert Collins
On Sat, 2006-08-05 at 10:58 +1000, Brian May wrote: Robert == Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert Are you doing conversions from SVN? Current bzr uses 20MB Robert of ram to do a native branch operation in similar Robert circumstances. (bug report gets fixed, new at

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-05 Thread Brian May
Robert == Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert Its likely to be a different bug - the conversion approach Robert used for svn/baz is very different. That said, conversion Robert from $any system is going to use more memory than native Robert bzr operations, simply

Re: Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-04 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] [060801 18:17]: also sprach Bernhard R. Link [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1701 +0100]: Missing $(DESTDIR)s in Makefiles are an example. Especially when the install part was DESTDIRified, but the test before if the file is already there (as make install

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-04 Thread Brian May
Robert == Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert Are you doing conversions from SVN? Current bzr uses 20MB Robert of ram to do a native branch operation in similar Robert circumstances. (bug report gets fixed, new at 11 :)). No, this was a conversion from baz. Might be the

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Otavio Salvador
Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: bzr is also working on a high performance server at the moment, which will operate over either a socketpair - i.e. tunnelling via ssh (which can still be done without granting shell access), or over plain http via an apache rewrite rule. Is it already

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Robert Collins
On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 08:27 -0300, Otavio Salvador wrote: Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: bzr is also working on a high performance server at the moment, which will operate over either a socketpair - i.e. tunnelling via ssh (which can still be done without granting shell access),

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Otavio Salvador
Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 08:27 -0300, Otavio Salvador wrote: Robert Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: bzr is also working on a high performance server at the moment, which will operate over either a socketpair - i.e. tunnelling via ssh (which can

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Brian May
Adeodato == Adeodato =?utf-8?B?U2ltw7M=?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Adeodato But if you have a set of equal developers, bzr can be Adeodato also used in a very similar way to Subversion, where all Adeodato commits go to a central repository, and nobody has to Adeodato collect

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-03 Thread Robert Collins
On Fri, 2006-08-04 at 09:56 +1000, Brian May wrote: For documentation on checkouts and bound branches, see http://bazaar-vcs.org/CheckoutTutorial http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrUsingBoundBranches However, I am not convinced the following paragraph in the first page is correct: Getting a

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread Pierre Machard
Hi, On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:31:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Pierre Machard [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull) This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control for packaging -- which

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread Thijs Kinkhorst
On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 20:57 +0100, martin f krafft wrote: I'm using it when porting security fixes to sarge. If the maintainer has fixed a security bug in sid, I download that version and the version before and can see right away what exactly he changed to fix the bug. This shouldn't need

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Thijs Kinkhorst [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.02.1020 +0100]: This shouldn't need snapshot.debian.net, right? If the bug is claimed to be fixed in the changelog of 2.0-5 and the current sid version is 2.0-7, I don't know another way to see the diff between 2.0-4 and 2.0-5, since

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Otavio Salvador [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:43:56 -0300]: Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then each developer can prepare a set of changes offline, do all the branching, merging, commiting and uncommiting (gotta love that) that they want, and when they're done, do e.g.: % bzr push

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Otavio Salvador
Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Otavio Salvador [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:43:56 -0300]: Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then each developer can prepare a set of changes offline, do all the branching, merging, commiting and uncommiting (gotta love that) that they want, and

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Christoph Haas
On Wednesday 02 August 2006 21:44, Otavio Salvador wrote: Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Otavio Salvador [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:43:56 -0300]: Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then each developer can prepare a set of changes offline, do all the branching, merging,

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Roland Mas
Adeodato Simó, 2006-08-02 21:20:09 +0200 : % bzr push sftp://costa.debian.org/bzr/pkg-xiph/vorbis-tools [...] Ask in #alioth. Note, however, that TTBOMK still does not offer HTTP access, so if you want that, better stick to htdocs for a while. I hope to be able to bribe buxy to provide

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread David Nusinow
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:08:06PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: On Aug 01, David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. -- ciao,

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread David Nusinow
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 12:44:19PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.0005 +0100]: Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course plenty of challengers,

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread Adeodato Simó
* David Nusinow [Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:37:23 +]: (I'm seriously interested in setting up git.debian.org for XSF work, for example*), * If anyone else is interested in this, contact me and we'll talk There is _something_ in costa:/srv/git.debian.org/git already. Cheers, -- Adeodato Simó

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-02 Thread David Nusinow
On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 11:56:44PM +0200, Adeodato Simó wrote: * David Nusinow [Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:37:23 +]: (I'm seriously interested in setting up git.debian.org for XSF work, for example*), * If anyone else is interested in this, contact me and we'll talk There is _something_

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-02 Thread Robert Collins
On Wed, 2006-08-02 at 22:29 +0200, Christoph Haas wrote: That's in fact an issue that made me feel sceptical about bzr, darcs and mercury. All of them require a shell account or some scripting through a special mail address to commit changes. And it's not only the recent kernel

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Aug 01, David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Eduard Bloch
#include hallo.h * Marco d'Itri [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 09:53:21AM]: On Aug 01, David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. Are you serious? (SCNR ;-) No, debootstrap is an important toy

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Aníbal Monsalve Salazar
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 10:06:05AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote: #include hallo.h * Marco d'Itri [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 09:53:21AM]: On Aug 01, David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. += piuparts That's a bold

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Frank Küster
Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: #include hallo.h * Marco d'Itri [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 09:53:21AM]: On Aug 01, David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. Are you serious? (SCNR

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Roger Leigh
Frank Küster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: #include hallo.h * Marco d'Itri [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 09:53:21AM]: On Aug 01, David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Frank Küster
Roger Leigh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank Küster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think maintainers should really build and test their packages in clean sid chroots. It's not important Whether these are set up with debootstrap or any other method, and whether the handling is done with

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Reinhard Tartler
Frank Küster wrote: There is also sbuild (which may be used with or without schroot to manage the chroot). I prefer it to pbuilder, but I may be a little biased ;-) Isn't sbuild usually using a permanently unpacked chroot which persists between different invocations of the tool? That's not

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Aug 01, Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. Are you serious? (SCNR ;-) Yes. I do not use either and I think I have been doing serious Debian work so far. Building in chroots

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Frank Küster
Reinhard Tartler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank Küster wrote: There is also sbuild (which may be used with or without schroot to manage the chroot). I prefer it to pbuilder, but I may be a little biased ;-) Isn't sbuild usually using a permanently unpacked chroot which persists between

Building in chroots (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Frank Küster
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) wrote: On Aug 01, Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. Are you serious? (SCNR ;-) Yes. I do not use either and I think I have been doing

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.0005 +0100]: Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course plenty of challengers, but subversion seems to beat them all. I'd be interested in your

Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Marco d'Itri [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1221 +0100]: Building in chroots *hides* bugs. Uh, what? Please give an example. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer and

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: On Aug 01, David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. -- ciao, Marco Never used either one. I have cdebootstrap do create chroots, dchroot

Re: Building in chroots (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Eduard Bloch
#include hallo.h * Frank Küster [Tue, Aug 01 2006, 01:55:14PM]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) wrote: On Aug 01, Eduard Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. Are you serious?

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Christian Aichinger
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 10:24:32AM +, Reinhard Tartler wrote: The sbuild package in debian however adds more features, like schroot support. With this, it can use schroot to create temporary, clean chroots from tarballs, block devices, create lvm snapshots on the fly and so on. I read

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Simon Richter
Hi, martin f krafft wrote: Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course plenty of challengers, but subversion seems to beat them all. I'd be interested in your thoughts as to why subversion beats them

Re: Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
On 8/1/06, martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also sprach Marco d'Itri [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1221 +0100]: Building in chroots *hides* bugs. Uh, what? Please give an example. The only example I can think of is programs that use configure to include support for anything they can

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Pierre Machard
Hi, On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: [...] While I already have a good selection, I am on the look for more. Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped Debian development for a large number of people? Or do you remember a tool that

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Pierre Machard [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control for packaging -- which could also make packages from the past accessible. Could you give me some

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Steinar H. Gunderson
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:31:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: Could you give me some insights, please, into how snapshot.d.n is useful? Don't get me wrong, I also find it useful, but mostly from the administrator perspective, I've not really used it as a developer. Binary searching for

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Thijs Kinkhorst
On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 15:31 +0100, martin f krafft wrote: Could you give me some insights, please, into how snapshot.d.n is useful? Don't get me wrong, I also find it useful, but mostly from the administrator perspective, I've not really used it as a developer. I'm using it when porting

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Lars Wirzenius
ti, 2006-08-01 kello 15:31 +0100, martin f krafft kirjoitti: also sprach Pierre Machard [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control for packaging -- which could also

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Roberto C. Sanchez
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:31:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Pierre Machard [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control for packaging -- which could

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Roger Leigh
Christian Aichinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 10:24:32AM +, Reinhard Tartler wrote: The sbuild package in debian however adds more features, like schroot support. With this, it can use schroot to create temporary, clean chroots from tarballs, block devices, create

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Christoph Haas
On Tuesday 01 August 2006 13:44, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.0005 +0100]: Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course plenty of challengers, but

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Simon Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, martin f krafft wrote: Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course plenty of challengers, but subversion seems to beat them all. I'd be interested in your

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
Thanks, Christoph, I think you argued a good case! I'll probably use bzr when I need to keep something revisioned without much fuss just to save the time for svnadmin create and a DAV share on my Apache. But for everything else I think I'll stay with Subversion. And while I haven't tried it I

Re: Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] [060801 15:29]: also sprach Marco d'Itri [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1221 +0100]: Building in chroots *hides* bugs. Uh, what? Please give an example. Missing $(DESTDIR)s in Makefiles are an example. Especially when the install part was DESTDIRified, but

Re: Building in chroots hides bugs? (was: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Bernhard R. Link [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1701 +0100]: Missing $(DESTDIR)s in Makefiles are an example. Especially when the install part was DESTDIRified, but the test before if the file is already there (as make install does not want to overwrite a config file) was forgotten.

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Joe Smith
Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: On Aug 01, David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, pbuilder and debootstrap are considered absolutely critical for serious work. That's a bold statement. -- ciao,

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Otavio Salvador
martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks, Christoph, I think you argued a good case! I'll probably use bzr when I need to keep something revisioned without much fuss just to save the time for svnadmin create and a DAV share on my Apache. But for everything else I think I'll stay

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Otavio Salvador [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1804 +0100]: FYI: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrForeignBranches/Subversion Have you tryed it? Not productively. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Joey Hess
martin f krafft wrote: also sprach David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.0005 +0100]: Subversion, in conjunction with alioth, has risen dramatically in Debian to accomodate team-based maintainance. There are of course plenty of challengers, but subversion seems to beat them all.

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1907 +0100]: I'd be interested in your thoughts as to why subversion beats them all, in your perception. I assumed he meant it in the sense that more teams seem to be using subversion on alioth than any other RCS. Ie, compare the list at

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Andreas Metzler
martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also sprach Pierre Machard [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1501 +0100]: snapshot.debian.net (still not-official but very usefull This is very interesting, especially in the light of version control for packaging -- which could also make packages from the

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Andreas Metzler
martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: also sprach Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1907 +0100]: [...] I assumed he meant it in the sense that more teams seem to be using subversion on alioth than any other RCS. [...] Yes, and I wanted to know why he thought that is the case. I

centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Christoph Haas [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 17:33:15 +0200]: Hi, No offense intended - honestly - but the problem of passing patches/patchsets around between the maintainers is really a problem. In Subversion I know where the authoritative instance lies that is the master instance keeping the

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Adeodato Simó
* Adeodato Simó [Tue, 01 Aug 2006 20:31:37 +0200]: they want, and when they're done, do e.g.: % bzr push sftp://costa.debian.org/bzr/pkg-xiph/vorbis-tools Forgot to add that it can be even _identical_ to subversion, in the sense that you don't have to commit locally, and then push. Just

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Mark Brown
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 07:19:19PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: Yes, and I wanted to know why he thought that is the case. I believe Christoph has given a good account of the reasons. If you have anything to add, please do! There's also the fact that well known teams like the installer and

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1936 +0100]: Forgot to add that it can be even _identical_ to subversion, in the sense that you don't have to commit locally, and then push. Just make a checkout (refer to the bzr docs), and every commit you make will go to the main repo

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Otavio Salvador
Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Then each developer can prepare a set of changes offline, do all the branching, merging, commiting and uncommiting (gotta love that) that they want, and when they're done, do e.g.: % bzr push sftp://costa.debian.org/bzr/pkg-xiph/vorbis-tools We're

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 03:31:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: Could you give me some insights, please, into how snapshot.d.n is useful? Don't get me wrong, I also find it useful, but mostly from the administrator perspective, I've not really used it as a developer. Testing of various

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Thijs Kinkhorst [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1537 +0100]: Could you give me some insights, please, into how snapshot.d.n is useful? Don't get me wrong, I also find it useful, but mostly from the administrator perspective, I've not really used it as a developer. I'm using

Re: centralized bzr (Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools)

2006-08-01 Thread Robert Collins
On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 19:44 +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Adeodato Simó [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.08.01.1936 +0100]: Forgot to add that it can be even _identical_ to subversion, in the sense that you don't have to commit locally, and then push. Just make a checkout (refer to the

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-08-01 Thread Dale C. Scheetz
Stuff deleted I have cdebootstrap do create chroots, dchroot to use them, buildd/sbuild to test compile under true buildd conditions. Why would I want something else? I'm not sure I know, but now that I know about this pair, I will certainly look into it. After that, if I can answer your

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Michael Banck [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped Debian development for a large number of people? CDBS and alioth/svn.debian.org. HTH, Michael With cdbs as

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.07.30.2139 +0100]: I have Reply-To set for fear of horrible flame wars when one DD bashes another one's favourite tool, but I will make the results public, obviously. Thus, I appreciate if you could take the time to drop me a short note if

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread Frank Küster
Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Banck [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped Debian development for a large number of people? [...] How about

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread Hendrik Sattler
Am Montag 31 Juli 2006 17:08 schrieb Frank Küster: Goswin von Brederlow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Banck [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped Debian development

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-31 Thread David Nusinow
On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: Dear fellow developers, As many of you know, I am conducting research on Debian, specifically on how Debian developers adopt or reject new methods of package maintenance. I would like to get a broad collection of data for the

Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-30 Thread martin f krafft
Dear fellow developers, As many of you know, I am conducting research on Debian, specifically on how Debian developers adopt or reject new methods of package maintenance. I would like to get a broad collection of data for the first part of my research, which is the study of tools that have been

Re: Successful and unsuccessful Debian development tools

2006-07-30 Thread Michael Banck
On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: Do you know of a good example of a tool that has successfully shaped Debian development for a large number of people? CDBS and alioth/svn.debian.org. HTH, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject