Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-12 Thread Andreas Bombe
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 08:01:26AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 12:20:06PM +, Ian Jackson wrote: I don't know where the English l10n team got the idea from that there is something wrong with a computer speaking to the user in the first person. But in my opinion

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-11 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:57:44AM +, Ian Jackson wrote: Wouter Verhelst writes (Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer): A computer cannot refer to itself, because it does not have a self. I'm sorry, but that is completely wrong. README drink me someone me

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-10 Thread Andrei Popescu
On Vi, 10 feb 12, 14:20:58, Miles Bader wrote: Hmmm, while it may not be the best thing to have a non-native speaker in charge of wording, I think it actually _is_ useful to have their input. Sometimes language that seems pretty obvious to a native speaker isn't clear at all to many

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-10 Thread Ian Jackson
Wouter Verhelst writes (Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer): A computer cannot refer to itself, because it does not have a self. I'm sorry, but that is completely wrong. README drink me someone me facit I'm sure others can come up with many other examples, ancient

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-10 Thread Justin B Rye
Ian Jackson wrote: Wouter Verhelst writes (Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer): A computer cannot refer to itself, because it does not have a self. I'm sorry, but that is completely wrong. README drink me someone me facit README is itself a reference to DRINK

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-10 Thread Holger Levsen
On Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2012, Russell Coker wrote: In the US corporations are people, so surely computers are people too. because clearly, the US is always right. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-10 Thread Steve Langasek
I agree with the debian-l10n-english position that first person is inappropriate in debconf questions; we should not personify computers. However: On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 02:11:38PM +, MJ Ray wrote: My reviewer also seems to think there is (sometimes?) something wrong with the use of the

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-10 Thread Christian PERRIER
Quoting Steve Langasek (vor...@debian.org): I categorically reject the notion that removing second-person usage from our debconf questions is at all beneficial. And when you fix non-problems in your language, you almost invariably make things worse by reducing clarity or increasing

Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Ian Jackson
I have just received a review by a l10n team of a package of mine. The reviewer seems to be under the impression that there is something wrong with the computer speaking to the user in the first person. For example: - If you approve, I will edit /etc/X11/app-default/XTerm for you, and - save

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Niels Thykier
On 2012-02-09 13:20, Ian Jackson wrote: I have just received a review by a l10n team of a package of mine. The reviewer seems to be under the impression that there is something wrong with the computer speaking to the user in the first person. For example: [...] I suspect devref 6.5.2.5

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Roger Leigh
On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 01:40:42PM +0100, Niels Thykier wrote: On 2012-02-09 13:20, Ian Jackson wrote: I have just received a review by a l10n team of a package of mine. The reviewer seems to be under the impression that there is something wrong with the computer speaking to the user in

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Justin B Rye
On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 12:20:06PM +, Ian Jackson wrote: I have just received a review by a l10n team of a package of mine. Well, by Christian Perrier; nobody else has had a chance to reply yet. If people with opinions on this topic want to join the d-l-e team, which mostly seems to consist

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Lars Wirzenius
On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 01:29:08PM +, Roger Leigh wrote: The computer is not a person. There there, havelock.liw.fi, don't listen to the *mean* man who says you're not a person. You are too a person! Tell you what, it's a magical Internet, ol' buddy... Let's go exploring! signature.asc

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread MJ Ray
Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk I have just received a review by a l10n team of a package of mine. The reviewer seems to be under the impression that there is something wrong with the computer speaking to the user in the first person. I'm not active within the l10n-english

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Josh Triplett
Ian Jackson wrote: I have just received a review by a l10n team of a package of mine. The reviewer seems to be under the impression that there is something wrong with the computer speaking to the user in the first person. For example: - If you approve, I will edit

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Russell Coker
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012, Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi wrote: On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 01:29:08PM +, Roger Leigh wrote: The computer is not a person. There there, havelock.liw.fi, don't listen to the *mean* man who says you're not a person. You are too a person! Tell you what, it's a magical

Re: Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Filipus Klutiero
Josh Triplett wrote: In general I don't see anything wrong with you in most circumstances, though I think phrases like this system seem clearer and less ambiguous than your system. I agree. This is often seen in package descriptions, for example

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread martin f krafft
also sprach Josh Triplett j...@joshtriplett.org [2012.02.09.1554 +0100]: Choosing this option will modify /etc/X11/app-default/XTerm, preserving the old file as XTerm.backup.not-trad. Because choosing this option does not modify anything but the debconf cache, and only the postinst script

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Gunnar Wolf
martin f krafft dijo [Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 05:07:39PM +0100]: Because choosing this option does not modify anything but the debconf cache, and only the postinst script modifies… no wait, choosing this option only changes the in-memory state of some UI widget and hitting enter then informs

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Miles Bader
Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk writes: Finally, the reviewer revealed in the review that they're not a native speaker of English. Is it normal for l10n reviews to be conducted by non-native speakers of the target language ? Are we really so short of native English speaking l10n

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Christian PERRIER
Quoting Niels Thykier (ni...@thykier.net): On 2012-02-09 13:20, Ian Jackson wrote: I have just received a review by a l10n team of a package of mine. The reviewer seems to be under the impression that there is something wrong with the computer speaking to the user in the first person.

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 12:20:06PM +, Ian Jackson wrote: I have just received a review by a l10n team of a package of mine. The reviewer seems to be under the impression that there is something wrong with the computer speaking to the user in the first person. For example: - If you

Re: Use of the first person in messages from the computer

2012-02-09 Thread Christian PERRIER
Quoting Ian Jackson (ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk): Finally, the reviewer revealed in the review that they're not a native speaker of English. Is it normal for l10n reviews to be conducted by non-native speakers of the target language ? Are we really so short of native English speaking