Re: afraid to build from source? (was Re: Remove cdrtools)

2006-08-17 Thread Peter Samuelson
[Wouter Verhelst] > It has nothing to do with "being afraid to", but everything with "not > needing to". There's lots of things we don't _need_ to do but we do anyway, as a matter of quality of implementation. I believe that building a package from source is something we should do as well, if on

Re: afraid to build from source? (was Re: Remove cdrtools)

2006-08-17 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 02:42:09AM -0500, Peter Samuelson wrote: > [Michael Poole] > > On top of the default automake behavior being horribly broken, does > > that make usual revision control practices horribly broken? > > It really bothers me to hear people claim as a best practice that you > sho

Re: afraid to build from source?

2006-08-16 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [Goswin von Brederlow] > It's true that you can, but it's no excuse. Upstream has reason to > ship pre-built automake/autoconf output, because historically, random > users could be expected to have 'make' and a C compiler, but couldn't > be expected t

Re: afraid to build from source?

2006-08-15 Thread Peter Samuelson
[Goswin von Brederlow] > Even make breaks from time to time. I distinctly remeber an update of > make that caused problems. There are also several gcc versions that > are quite different in their behaviour. Yes, and we treat such instances as bugs and fix them - whether it's fixing your packages

Re: afraid to build from source?

2006-08-15 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [Goswin von Brederlow] >> The big problem is that those autogenerated build scripts will be non >> deterministic on the buildd network and on users system. Depending on >> the installed packages (automake/autoconf versions) you get different >> results

Re: afraid to build from source?

2006-08-15 Thread Peter Samuelson
[Goswin von Brederlow] > The big problem is that those autogenerated build scripts will be non > deterministic on the buildd network and on users system. Depending on > the installed packages (automake/autoconf versions) you get different > results and often failures. :( What low expectations we

Re: afraid to build from source?

2006-08-15 Thread Goswin von Brederlow
Peter Samuelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [Michael Poole] >> On top of the default automake behavior being horribly broken, does >> that make usual revision control practices horribly broken? > > It really bothers me to hear people claim as a best practice that you > should never recompile con

afraid to build from source? (was Re: Remove cdrtools)

2006-08-15 Thread Peter Samuelson
[Michael Poole] > On top of the default automake behavior being horribly broken, does > that make usual revision control practices horribly broken? It really bothers me to hear people claim as a best practice that you should never recompile configure.ac or Makefile.am except under controlled cond