Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

* David Nusinow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030424 11:20]: > Your message works both > ways, and it's obvious to me that upstream authors should give > maintainers as much respect as maintainers give them. Some simple > civility is really all that's called for. Perfectly true. But this list is called deb

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

* Manoj Srivastava ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030424 05:20]: > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:41:58 +0200, Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > You can. The _moral_ right is compatible with free software, the > > _formal_ right not. (And in some, rare cases the moral right is > > ignored. mkreiserfs cou

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

* Matthew Palmer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030424 02:50]: > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Andreas Barth wrote: > > Can't you understand that as an author you would like that messages > > like this are not removed without your consent? The internet > > robustness principle says: Be liberal in what you accept and

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Fri, Apr 25, 2003 at 04:44:58AM +0200, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 08:59:42PM -0500, Adam Majer wrote: > > Repetitive, largely useless to the user messages like those should > > be removed and put in a file like SPONSORS or whatever. I would > > NOT use any program that is

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Fri, Apr 25, 2003 at 04:44:58AM +0200, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > > Repetitive, largely useless to the user messages like those should > > be removed and put in a file like SPONSORS or whatever. I would > > NOT use any program that is going to spew out poinless stuff > > when I do not want to se

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 08:59:42PM -0500, Adam Majer wrote: > Repetitive, largely useless to the user messages like those should > be removed and put in a file like SPONSORS or whatever. I would > NOT use any program that is going to spew out poinless stuff > when I do not want to see it. one co

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Adam Majer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Having a one or two liner message > during startup of a command line utility is fine by me. Having > 5 pages of stuff is not fair to the user. Period. > > The job of a maintaier is to make the software as usable to a u

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 09:58:08AM -0600, Ed Boraas wrote: > Hello, all. > > Ideally, I think, including the verbatim message in a separate file > ("SPONSORS"?) and including a reference to that file in mkreiserfs' > output should serve as an acceptable balance. I'm willing to reconsider > that

Re: Does your upstream know you? They should. (Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian)

On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 11:02:02PM +0200, Andrea Capriotti wrote: > "A big part of your job as Debian maintainer will be to stay in contact > with the upstream developers..." > > http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch-developer-duties.en.html#s-upstream-coordination I thought

Re: Does your upstream know you? They should. (Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian)

Il gio, 2003-04-24 alle 21:07, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > A Debian maintainer should not be a stranger to the upstream maintainer. > Your (active) upstreams should _already_ know who you are and that you are > responsible for the Debian packaging of their software. The one thing that > they need to k

Does your upstream know you? They should. (Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian)

On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 11:17:16AM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > Imagine you are the developer of some random piece of free software. You > don't necessarily use Debian; you certainly don't understand all its > systems and protocols. > The conventional way to get in touch with the developers of a

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 05:39:25PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > Can't you understand that as an author you would like that messages > like this are not removed without your consent? The internet > robustness principle says: Be liberal in what you accept and > conservative in what you send. Modifiy

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Le jeu 24/04/2003 à 05:37, Manoj Srivastava a écrit : > > I agree. I am not trying to defend Hans's diplomatic skills. > > Diplomatic skill? It is not a feat of extraordinary diplomacy > not to accuse your correspondent of various acts theft and piracy > while initiating a dialogue. Has c

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 11:44:22PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > -- > "Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal." Igor Stravinsky (-:

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:04:00 +1000, Martin Pool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:43:24 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:46:32 +1000, Martin Pool >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >>> On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:53:14 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: I was >>> intenti

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:43:24 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:46:32 +1000, Martin Pool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >> On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:53:14 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> I was intentionally using moderate language because (a) I don't >> believe it is strictly plagia

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:25:53 +1000, mbp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On 24 Apr 2003, Russell Coker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:17, Martin Pool wrote: >> > The conventional way to get in touch with the developers of a >> > free software project to raise an issue is to writ

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:46:32 +1000, Martin Pool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:53:14 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:59:59 +1000, Martin Pool >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >> >>> For example, at least two people called Hans a troll. An upstream >>> aut

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:41:58 +0200, Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > * Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030422 08:35]: >> On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 02:53:38PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: >> > Authors have a moral right (and a legal one in some places) not >> > to have their work mutilated

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On 24 Apr 2003, Russell Coker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:17, Martin Pool wrote: > > The conventional way to get in touch with the developers of a free > > software project to raise an issue is to write to the -devel list. It's > > not surprising that this is what people do

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:17, Martin Pool wrote: > The conventional way to get in touch with the developers of a free > software project to raise an issue is to write to the -devel list. It's > not surprising that this is what people do with debian. The conventional way to approach a large group of

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Thu, 24 Apr 2003, Martin Pool wrote: > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:10:45 -0500, Adam Heath wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Hans Reiser wrote: > >> Ed has graciously agreed to restore the credits, and I thank Debian for > >> its respect for the wishes of the original author in regards to > >> promine

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:53:14 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:59:59 +1000, Martin Pool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > >> For example, at least two people called Hans a troll. An upstream >> author expressing concern about the way their code is packaged is >> not trolling (i.

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:10:45 -0500, Adam Heath wrote: > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Hans Reiser wrote: >> Ed has graciously agreed to restore the credits, and I thank Debian for >> its respect for the wishes of the original author in regards to >> prominently crediting those who have contributed. I'm gla

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 07:27:05PM +0100, Matt Ryan wrote: > I apologise for accusing Manoj of having a prune up his rear. It's clear to > me now that this was a disservice to prunes and in fact it's a thesaurus > thats lodged there and is giving him delusions of having a large vocabulary. At this

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Andreas Barth wrote: > Can't you understand that as an author you would like that messages > like this are not removed without your consent? The internet > robustness principle says: Be liberal in what you accept and > conservative in what you send. Modifiying code is sending,

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Hi, On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 10:49:09AM -0700, Mark Rafn wrote: > That said, I'd prefer Debian NOT remove such advertising, only that we > guarantee users the right to do. *And* distribute the result, if you want to be DFSG-free. Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies - Emile van Bergen [EMAI

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Hans Reiser wrote: > Ed has graciously agreed to restore the credits, and I thank Debian for > its respect for the wishes of the original author in regards to > prominently crediting those who have contributed. Again, what does Debian(as a community/organization) have to do w

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

[Some dude called Manoj (I think) did produce such utterances recently] > You may be enured to unsubstantiated accusations of > plagiarism, theft, idiocy, and worse, but please allow me the right of > umbrage at such. I apologise for accusing Manoj of having a prune up his rear. It's clear to me

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Brian May wrote: > Quoting README, in particular the entire LICENSING section: [Snip text about Hans Reiser assuming the right to re-license contributed work if it's not clearly labelled otherwise. I don't have an opinion on the legality of it, but it doesn't sound non-fre

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 05:35:48PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: > I object: There is always a cause why a certain message is output. A > debian maintainer should (morally) at least ask what the upstream > maintainer thinks about removing the sponsorship message and remove it > against the will of th

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

* Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030422 08:35]: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 02:53:38PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > > Authors have a moral right (and a legal one in some places) not to > > have their work mutilated. > You can assert a moral right to control how your work is used, or you > can wr

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

* David Nusinow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030422 08:05]: > So, ultimately, what harm does this do to the author? If all he cares > about is his reputation, then he's certaintly not doing a good job of > bolstering it in this particular forum. He's not representing his > sponsors very well either. Can't

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

* Glenn Maynard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030422 05:50]: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 12:25:39PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > > banner at startup is inconvenient. However just cutting it out is not > > a good way to resolve the bug. The maintainer made a mistake here. > > It ought to be obvious that remo

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, 2003-04-23 at 11:17, Hans Reiser wrote: > Ed has graciously agreed to restore the credits, and I thank Debian for > its respect for the wishes of the original author in regards to > prominently crediting those who have contributed. I'm very happy to hear that this has been resolved amica

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Ed has graciously agreed to restore the credits, and I thank Debian for its respect for the wishes of the original author in regards to prominently crediting those who have contributed. -- Hans

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 02:53:38PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > Some people here apparently delight in pissing off upstream authors > who object to the way their software is modified. There are plenty of > posts saying that Debian can do what it likes, and precious few > acknowledging that Hans oug

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 09:41:34AM +0100, Edmund GRIMLEY EVANS wrote: > If the copyright holder includes a copy of the GPL but writes that the > software is licensed under the GPL plus additional restrictions, then > this is not "illegal" as far as I know (there's nothing in the GPL > that prevents

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 10:34:14PM -0700, David Nusinow wrote: > You're forgetting that we don't really know what Reiser's intentions > are. His complaints don't address anything specific, but instead throw > out terms like plagiarism and bowdlerization in order to avoid listing > specific complain

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:10:57 +1000, Anthony Towns said: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 05:53:14PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:59:59 +1000, Martin Pool >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >> > For example, at least two people called Hans a troll. An >> > upstream author express

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 05:53:14PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:59:59 +1000, Martin Pool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > For example, at least two people called Hans a troll. An upstream > > author expressing concern about the way their code is packaged is > > not trollin

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, 2003-04-22 at 13:57, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 09:58:08AM -0600, Ed Boraas wrote: > > > As a result, I've privately emailed Hans to try to resolve the issue. I > > would like to apologize to debian-devel for the traffic this has > > generated over the past few days.

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:54:26 +0200, Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > As a user of reiserfs: the long messages are really just > annoying. the name of authors and sponsors is not something that I > am interested in when running the program, this applies to programs

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:59:59 +1000, Martin Pool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > For example, at least two people called Hans a troll. An upstream > author expressing concern about the way their code is packaged is > not trolling (i.e. making random arguments just to provoke flames.) I find

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 09:58:08AM -0600, Ed Boraas wrote: > As a result, I've privately emailed Hans to try to resolve the issue. I > would like to apologize to debian-devel for the traffic this has > generated over the past few days. Thanks. Could you perhaps share with us whether you were c

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 09:50:47PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > Hans obviously feels the contributions his sponsors played in getting > reiserfs written and maintained was very important. Why do you think > you know better? I fully agree with following the author's wishes in things like this; I j

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 05:28:16AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 10:43:44AM +0200, Jan Niehusmann wrote: > > Are you sure about that? I didn't read all the messages in this thread, > > I'm not sure about anything, as Hans hasn't clarified what he's complaining > about. It

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Colin Watson wrote: > I note that few people are cc'ing Hans Reiser on things they seem to > expect him to respond to; is everybody assuming that he's subscribed to > debian-devel? If he sends mail to debian-devel, it's nobody's fault but his if he never sees the replies. I didn't see any Mail-Fo

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

> I note that few people are cc'ing Hans Reiser on things they seem to > expect him to respond to; is everybody assuming that he's subscribed to > debian-devel? Anyway, now that Ed has come back, let us just wait for him to clarify the issue with Hans (and/or continue the *license* debate in -leg

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 06:47:23AM -0700, Craig Dickson wrote: > Martin Pool wrote: > > For example, at least two people called Hans a troll. An upstream author > > expressing concern about the way their code is packaged is not trolling > > (i.e. making random arguments just to provoke flames.) >

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Ed Boraas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > For instance, if Hans insists on retaining the complete sponsorship > message verbatim, how strongly would you, as users of the package, > feel about the issue? I don't think such a mandate can exist in free software; it certainly isn't GPL-compatible. On

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

En réponse à Chris Cheney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I'm sure all the FSF/Debian folks would be thrilled if someone changed > the > > code in [x]emacs to not output anything about the GPL at startup, or > if vim > > didn't include any info about helping Ugandan orphans. > > First of all emacs is pur

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Hello, all. I've only just returned from spending the long weekend out of town. Of course, I've awoken to find a rather large thread on debian-devel regarding attribution issues with my packages of reiserfsprogs. You can imagine my excitement :) As a result, I've privately emailed Hans to try

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Craig writes: > I think the accusation of trolling holds up quite well. It's still better to let the reader work it out for himself. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Jan writes: > He did talk about 'violation of copyright' in his first mail, but reading > his second mail, I'm quite sure he doesn't really care about legal > positions, but about fairness. But Debian _has_ to care about legal positions. Mr. Reiser has published a statement which appears to accus

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Martin Pool wrote: > For example, at least two people called Hans a troll. An upstream author > expressing concern about the way their code is packaged is not trolling > (i.e. making random arguments just to provoke flames.) Considering that Reiser waved his arms frantically but said nothing of

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

David Nusinow wrote: > Honestly, how bad is removing this message? Is removing this really > plagiarism? No, as credits will be given as due in the credits file. Right. Plagiarism would be replacing the credits with other credits, claiming to have written someone else's work. That word has no rel

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Adrian writes: > Well, doesn't the GPL say something on it being illegal to impose > additional restrictions on distribution? Original authors can add external restrictions, though the result is generally incompatible with other GPL software. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Eric Schwartz writes: > Except in extreme cases, we don't overrule a package maintainer's > decision to package the software he maintains however he likes. I don't > see any indication he has tried unsuccessfully to air his concerns with > the maintainer I think this is because like most people h

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 02:51:11AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > You seem to be equating author credits with sponsorship credits, as if > removing sponsorship credits is on a level with, say, removing copyright > notices and the author's name. Who says it isn't? If you want to dedicate a program

Re: Don't remove Reiserfstools (Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian)

Did you start a new thread on purpose? If not: please use a sensible mail program. Also, please use proper attribution lines when replying to mail. On Tuesday 22 April 2003 08:31, Jarno Elonen wrote: > Just because one small feature of a magnificent piece of software is > slightly annoying, does

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 10:43:44AM +0200, Jan Niehusmann wrote: > Are you sure about that? I didn't read all the messages in this thread, I'm not sure about anything, as Hans hasn't clarified what he's complaining about. > I think debian should respect the authors' wishes, even if we would be > a

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 03:19:56AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 08:58:05AM +0200, Lars Bahner wrote: > > Maybe someone with a little knowledge of C could add a -q --quiet > > parameter to the debian source? > > This doesn't help the more major problems that have been rais

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Glenn Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Well, doesn't the GPL say something on it being illegal to impose > > additional > > restrictions on distribution? > > If the restriction is agreed upon by all copyright holders, then the issue > is murky; as far as I know, there's no consensus on this iss

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Sun, Apr 20, 2003 at 06:19:28PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > Remember, the issue here isn't whether there's good reason to remove the > Reiser message, but whether we're allowed to (apparently not) and > whether not being allowed to do so is DFSG-free. Even if we were happy > with simply putti

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 04:59:59PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > For example, at least two people called Hans a troll. An upstream author > expressing concern about the way their code is packaged is not trolling > (i.e. making random arguments just to provoke flames.) He went from accusing Debian o

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 08:58:05AM +0200, Lars Bahner wrote: > Maybe someone with a little knowledge of C could add a -q --quiet > parameter to the debian source? This doesn't help the more major problems that have been raised (licensing and DFSG-freeness) at all. -- Glenn Maynard

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 02:09:39 -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 01:19:17AM -0400, Michael Tindal wrote: >> I do not understand your accusations here. No one stated what you >> said, and no one has delibaretly attempted to upset Hans. Quite the >> contrary, actually. I have see

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 01:19:17AM -0400, Michael Tindal wrote: > Prominently does not necessarily imply causing the program to be > unusable. A one line message stating "This program was funded my > multiple sources; see the file CREDITS" would suffice. > > > Debian should not stomp all over th

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 07:54:26AM +0200, Adrian 'Dagurashibanipal' von Bidder wrote: > Well, doesn't the GPL say something on it being illegal to impose additional > restrictions on distribution? If the restriction is agreed upon by all copyright holders, then the issue is murky; as far as I kn

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 03:53:17PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > Note that reiserfsprogs-3.6.4-4.diff has in fact not moved the credits > to another file, but *removed them entirely*. The sponsors of the > program are not mentioned at all in the Debian package. This is > unconscionable. You seem t

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 01:04:56AM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote: > You can assert a moral right to control how your work is used, or you > can write Free Software. You don't get to do both at once. If Hans > wants to assert his moral rights, we will certainly respect that; as > I've said, many Deb

Don't remove Reiserfstools (Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian)

> I guess if Reiser doesn't want an fsck/mkreiserfs without > his beloved credits message, it's time to dump reiserfs from Debian and > switch to ext3/XFS/whatever. Please don't. I'm running reiserfs on most of my home system's disks and have been *very* happy with it (..and don't even have the d

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 01:19:17AM -0400, Michael Tindal wrote: > I do not understand your accusations here. No one stated what you said, > and no one has delibaretly attempted to upset Hans. Quite the contrary, > actually. I have seen _several_ people attempting to find a compromise, Indeed.

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 02:53:38PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:22:36 -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 12:25:39PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > >> "We don't care what the author wants, we have the legal right to > >> change what we like" is not a good mes

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Saturday 19 April 2003 20:32, Thomas Viehmann wrote: > b) The licensing information certainly ist misleading: The first line says >GPL 2, period. Then there's lengthy information for assigning copyright >of patches. After that, there is that funny "nothing ... shall be > interpreted to

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On 22 Apr 2003, Michael Tindal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Authors have a moral right (and a legal one in some places) not to > > have their work mutilated. > > I do not consider removing 20-something lines of output from a > program whose purpose is to create a filesystem mutilating it. By >

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

I say "it ought to be obvious", because Hans put the message in there intending it to be prominent, rather than (say) putting it in a doc file. It is reasonable to assume that he cared about putting this message in front of everyone who used it. If you can't understand why removing it would annoy

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 02:53:38PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > Debian should not stomp all over the author's intentions if it is > reasonably avoidable. The alternatives do not seem to have been > adequately explored. You're forgetting that we don't really know what Reiser's intentions are. His co

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, 2003-04-22 at 00:53, Martin Pool wrote: > On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:22:36 -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 12:25:39PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > >> "We don't care what the author wants, we have the legal right to > >> change what we like" is not a good message to sen

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:22:36 -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 12:25:39PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: >> "We don't care what the author wants, we have the legal right to >> change what we like" is not a good message to send. Even if you don't > > Thankfully, Debian isn't sendin

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 12:25:39PM +1000, Martin Pool wrote: > "We don't care what the author wants, we have the legal right to > change what we like" is not a good message to send. Even if you don't Thankfully, Debian isn't sending this message. Hans would apparently like people to believe that

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 22:45:59 -0500, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 06:54:42AM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote: >> It is really a question of, do you respect the authors? > > Who do you respect, Hans? Many Debian Developers are also Free > Software authors. How much respect are you sh

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Sat, 2003-04-19 at 23:41, Glenn Maynard wrote: > 1. Is software licensed in the manner Hans intends DFSG-free? That is, > is it DFSG-free to require that interactive programs output a full NON-interactive programs. mkreiserfs is not interactive. It is passed arguments on the command line, mak

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Keep in mind you're talking to a bunch of people who are amoung the staunchest free software advocates around. Unlike you, most of them make $0 for all their contributions. Your implication that we're somehow profiting from the removal of credits is ludicrous. In any case, there is already a wid

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

[subscribed to -legal, not to -devel; Cc: accordingly] On Sun, Apr 20, 2003 at 01:24:09AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > Op za 19-04-2003, om 22:51 schreef Lukas Geyer: > > the issue seems to be the fix of #152547. If we are not allowed to > > remove a screenful of advertising from the output of

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

> > c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively > > when run, you must cause it, when started running for such > > interactive use in the most ordinary way, to print or display an > > announcement including an appropriate copyright notice and a > > notice th

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Op za 19-04-2003, om 22:51 schreef Lukas Geyer: > > the issue seems to be the fix of #152547. If we are not allowed to > > remove a screenful of advertising from the output of a program, then > > this unduly restricts the freedom to distribute modified v

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:36:10 +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Sunday 20 April 2003 22:30, Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> If the upstream author is rude to me, he does not deserve any >> consideration from myself. If he chooses to alienate his >> clientele, he should expect to re

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 01:10:47AM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: > This aside, it's very clear to me that responding to Hans is a complete > waste of time. He's trolling. If he's just going to keep ranting aimlessly, > I'd say Debian can only assume we're in violation of whatever the license > is,

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Mon, 2003-04-21 at 12:58, Jarno Elonen wrote: > > It's also worth considering that perhaps there is a language difference > > (does Hans have English as a first language?) that make it seem that the > > email seem harsher than it really is. Many Europeans are naturally very > > honest with what

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 11:14:05AM +0100, Matt Ryan wrote: > It's also worth considering that perhaps there is a language difference > (does Hans have English as a first language?) that make it seem that the > email seem harsher than it really is. Many Europeans are naturally very > honest with wha

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

> It's also worth considering that perhaps there is a language difference > (does Hans have English as a first language?) that make it seem that the > email seem harsher than it really is. Many Europeans are naturally very > honest with what they say and at first this comes across as been rude/blun

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Sunday 20 April 2003 22:30, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > If the upstream author is rude to me, he does not deserve any > consideration from myself. If he chooses to alienate his clientele, > he should expect to reap what he sowed. Buit, this doesn't get any problems solved. Using 'an

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

> The difficulty of their character unfortunately often seems to correlate with > the important of their software. ;) So even if the upstreams sometimes heats > up easily, please spend extra patience on them for the sake of the users. > Pretty please.. I'd really hate to lose something like Reiserf

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Oleg Drokin wrote: Hello! On Sat, Apr 19, 2003 at 03:05:16PM -0400, Travis Crump wrote: You mean a bug report like ? Oh, wait... What if someone wanted to write a gtk frontend to mkreiserfs? The Last time we spoke with EVMS folks

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 04:41:43AM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > This code partially funded by DARPA, SuSE, MP3.com, bigstorage.com > and others > > would be entirely acceptable to you? What about: This code partially funded by DARPA, SuSE, MP3.com, bigstorage.com and other

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Hello! On Sat, Apr 19, 2003 at 03:05:16PM -0400, Travis Crump wrote: > You mean a bug report like > ? Oh, wait... > What if someone wanted to write a gtk frontend to mkreiserfs? The Last time we spoke with EVMS folks about this kind o

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 09:40:50AM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote: > Maybe, but not very many people run mkreiserfs frequently. For most > users, mkreiserfs is performed once on installation, or close enough to > not matter a lot. What about the fact that most installers don't even show the output o

Re: plagiarism of reiserfs by Debian

Glenn McGrath wrote: What if the full statment was shown once on installation, but not every time the program is used, would that be an acceptable compromise to you ? Glenn Maybe, but not very many people run mkreiserfs frequently. For most users, mkreiserfs is performed once on installation,

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