Re: [hpoj-devel] Bug#147430: hpoj: Linking against OpenSSL licens ing modificat ion (GPL)

2002-07-23 Thread Branden Robinson
[sorry for the broad CC] On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 08:05:10PM -0700, PASCHAL,DAVID (HP-Roseville,ex1) wrote: Is this solution OK for everybody? I see nothing objectionable from a DFSG perspective in the language you have proposed. Thanks for working on this issue! -- G. Branden Robinson

Re: Summary

2002-07-23 Thread Martin Schulze
Thomas Bliesener wrote: Perhaps it's worth to mention 3b): b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, ... How is that different to (2)? (2) The distributor

Re: Summary

2002-07-23 Thread Martin Schulze
Thomas Bliesener wrote: CDs are bloody cheap only if you produce a certain amount of them (e.g. 2000 Debian CD sets which would be 28,000 CDs). If you produce only 500 Nice calculation... *shiver* *fear* Regards, Joey -- The good thing about standards is that there are so many to

Re: Summary (was: Distributing GPL Software as binary ISO)

2002-07-23 Thread Martin Schulze
Steve Langasek wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 10:26:57AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: Could people please comment on http://master.debian.org/~joey/legal.en.html Could you reread and check? I plan to add this to http://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/ and would like the advice to be

Re: User's thoughts about LPPL

2002-07-23 Thread David Carlisle
Registering LaTeX as a trademark would have given you much more power (i.e. real power) to discourage such things without requiring such high standards for others wanting to play around with the code. It wouldn't have given any protection at all to users of the package longtable (which wasn't

Re: LaTeX DFSG

2002-07-23 Thread David Carlisle
but we can assume either position without having any bearing on LPPL being DSFG-complient or not. right? yes exactly, just as i said me It is also irrelevant to a general discussion of LPPL, However the point keeps being re-raised:-) David

Re: forwarded message from Jeff Licquia

2002-07-23 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sun, Jul 21, 2002 at 06:30:05PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote: On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 01:25:42AM +0300, Richard Braakman wrote: Requiring a binary file rename is also OK; I think we might even do this now. Is it? Would you consider fileutils free under such a license? (You can change

Re: [hpoj-devel] Bug#147430: hpoj: Linking against OpenSSL licens ing modificat ion (GPL)

2002-07-23 Thread Mark Purcell
On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 08:05:10PM -0700, PASCHAL,DAVID (HP-Roseville,ex1) wrote: please forward the LICENSE file distributed with the OpenSSL version that Debian provides, so I can make sure it's truly identical to what I think it is. Hopefully they don't change the wording of their license

Re: User's thoughts about LPPL

2002-07-23 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 09:38:47AM +0100, David Carlisle wrote: But you have *no* way to assure this, short of trademarking the name latex. Of course it is true as written, but it ignores the fact that LPPL has been remarkably successful in its stated aims. Prior to the latex2e licence

Re: User's thoughts about LPPL

2002-07-23 Thread David Carlisle
Err, are you sure this is largely due to the license change, and not to other changes in the Unix world? I don't want to disapoint you but it's most likely true that most tex use doesn't happen in the unix world:-) (although as it happens a good part of latex was written on a Debian

Re: forwarded message from Jeff Licquia

2002-07-23 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 06:32:57PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: Uh, _technically_ you can symlink it (or write a wrapper), but _technically_ you could just mv it, too. But we try to adhere to the spirit as well as the letter of the license, don't we, which would stop us from doing that, don't

Re: Summary (was: Distributing GPL Software as binary ISO)

2002-07-23 Thread Richard Braakman
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 09:39:08AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: Mentioning option 3 at all seems misleading, IMHO. No one burning CDs from our archive receives such an offer, so it should be made clear that even non-profits cannot exercise this option. Err... They have received the

Re: RealNetworks wants to go open source

2002-07-23 Thread Richard Braakman
On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 10:38:19PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: As you maybe already know, RealNetworks (the guys behind RealPlayer client and server) want to release their next version under an OSI-certified licence. See http://open.helixcommunity.org Clause 13.7 of the RPSL violates

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Mittelbach, Frank
Branden, can you do me the favor and try to clearify for me when in your opinion the DSFG 4 clause is applicable for a license. Question 1: Suppose you have a program source foo.c with some license. Suppose this license restricts foo.c from being modified but allows distribution of foo.c plus

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Brian Sniffen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frank Mittelbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 2) Does the draft LPPL prevent me from distributing a program called SniffenTeX which is a modified derivative work of LaTeX, but would be run by a user as sniffentex and carries a banner

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Joe Moore
Glenn Maynard wrote: I'm not a DD. For those interested in my opinion anyway: What if I want to modify Latex to remove the filename mapping? If the DFSG-freeness is dependent on that mechanism, then I can't remove it (for the best or worst of technical reasons) and have it remain

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Mittelbach, Frank
sorry, I shouldn't have tried to answer your private mail in haste while getting my coat to rush to the office. I made a two typos ad least and one important one: as of now it would mean that for each individual work under LPPL you have to folow its license meaning you have to rename the work

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 09:02, Mittelbach, Frank wrote: as I said, sorry that was not deliberate. But for me work and file name within the LATeX context is very tightly linked. I mean, if you have the single file overcite.sty under LPPL then what other is the work then this file, ie how

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Boris Veytsman
From: Jeff Licquia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 23 Jul 2002 10:31:57 -0500 Would it work for you to require the following? - if the whole is named LaTeX, every changed file must be renamed - if the whole is named something else, files may be changed without renaming What about files

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Brian Sniffen
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:02:40 +0100, Mittelbach, Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: follow its license meaning that you have to rename the files that you change (i thought that was ... as I said, sorry that was not deliberate. But for me work

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 10:40, Boris Veytsman wrote: What about files that are individually released under LPPL? There are hundreds of files contributed by individual authors (and I presume being works under DFSG#4) with the rename if you change license. I've seen that some people include the

Re: Concluding the debate (was Re: Towards a new LPPL draft)

2002-07-23 Thread Jeremy Hankins
Jeff Licquia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - The requirement for modifications to LaTeX to be in files with different names from the original files, when combined with the ability for LaTeX to do filename mapping for file references, does not constitute a violation of the Debian Free

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Branden Robinson
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 02:19:15PM +0100, Mittelbach, Frank wrote: Branden, can you do me the favor and try to clearify for me when in your opinion the DSFG 4 clause is applicable for a license. Sure. Before getting to your hypotheticals, I'll try and give you a direct, if generalized,

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
Jeff Licquia writes: If each piece of the work had to be downloaded separately, then this would be a valid way of thinking. When the LaTeX Project collects a bunch of these separate works and combines them into LaTeX, though, they create a derived work, with its own licensing

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread William F Hammond
More nuances of language. Frank Mittelbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes to debian-legal: that you produce sniffenlatex which has its own complete tree and in there has identical file names to the pristine LaTeX tree so that both trees live side by side. For new LPPL language it might make sense

Re: tetex/tex license

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
Glenn Maynard writes: I've split this off, since I don't think mixing the LaTeX and (Te)TeX licensing problems is a good idea. they are related but you are right this is a separate issue and should be discussed separately. On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 04:27:57PM -0700, Walter Landry wrote:

Re: User's thoughts about LPPL

2002-07-23 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
David Carlisle [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think the one area where there will probably be disagreement is over the renaming rule however that eventually gets worded. However the disagreements there from the Debian side seem to be characterisable as it can't work or I'd have no respect for

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 11:46, Frank Mittelbach wrote: Jeff Licquia writes: If each piece of the work had to be downloaded separately, then this would be a valid way of thinking. When the LaTeX Project collects a bunch of these separate works and combines them into LaTeX, though,

Re: User's thoughts about LPPL

2002-07-23 Thread David Carlisle
Um, no. The real objection is: it's not DFSG free. Last time I asked for an objective list of places where people thought LPPL didn't meet the DFSG, someone posted such a list and Frank I think addressed all the raised points in his last draft, didn't he? The other comments are attempts to

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Brian Sniffen
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:46:18 +0200, Frank Mittelbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: If you think of LPPL applying to the whole of a LaTeX sty/cls tree of files at once, we could, i think live with the idea (it is even described so in modguide or cfgguide as a possible though not encouraged

Re: tetex/tex license

2002-07-23 Thread Walter Landry
Frank Mittelbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as far as TeX is concerned I tried to put up references to what could be called a license and copyright notices in http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2002/debian-legal-200207/msg00321.html and Walter is wrong, it concerns file names and

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Mark Rafn
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Mittelbach, Frank wrote: can you do me the favor and try to clearify for me when in your opinion the DSFG 4 clause is applicable for a license. You asked for Branden's opinion, which I hope he'll give. I'll add mine. DFSG 4 has 3 sentences, the first two of which are

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
Jeff Licquia writes: The LaTeX Project is not collecting a bunch of seperate works and combines them into LaTeX. It only provides 3 or 4 core parts of what is known to be LaTeX as well as providing a license (LPPL) which helps to keep that thing LaTeX uniform between different

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Walter Landry
Jeff Licquia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. Now I'd like to hear the Debian side. Here are the conditions for modification that are being proposed as I understand them: - you must rename all modified files, or - you must rename the whole of LaTeX in your modified copy AND distribute a

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Jeremy Hankins
Jeff Licquia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK. Now I'd like to hear the Debian side. Here are the conditions for modification that are being proposed as I understand them: - you must rename all modified files, or - you must rename the whole of LaTeX in your modified copy AND distribute a

OT: file renaming requirements - any prior art?

2002-07-23 Thread Mark Rafn
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Branden Robinson wrote: As I said earlier, the entire reason this sentence exists, as I understand it, was as the result of an unsuccessful effort to persuade Daniel J. Bernstein and/or the University of Washington to license some software under DFSG-free terms. In both

Re: Summary (was: Distributing GPL Software as binary ISO)

2002-07-23 Thread Martin Schulze
Richard Braakman wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 09:39:08AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: Mentioning option 3 at all seems misleading, IMHO. No one burning CDs from our archive receives such an offer, so it should be made clear that even non-profits cannot exercise this option.

MP3 decoders' non-freeness

2002-07-23 Thread Joe Drew
A long while ago Adrian Bunk filed bugs such as #65797 saying that MP3 decoders, in addition to encoders, were patented. Discussion at that time went along the lines of Prove it, and nothing ever happened. No mp3 decoder was ever moved to non-free, to the best of my knowledge. Has there been any

Re: OT: file renaming requirements - any prior art?

2002-07-23 Thread M. Drew Streib
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 10:37:21AM -0700, Mark Rafn wrote: really the free source), and any command-name limitation should only be done via trademark. IANAL, TINLA. Trademark protection can sometimes be enforced without the actual filing of a trademark application, depending on use, although

How about this license ?

2002-07-23 Thread g tr
Hi all, I would like to know what you think about this license : http://www.freeusp.org/FreeUSP_License.html Could it be assimilated as GPL ? Would the software licensed under these terms be accepted in debian ? Tahnks for your help and sorry for my english. Vincent

Re: MP3 decoders' non-freeness

2002-07-23 Thread M. Drew Streib
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 02:49:51PM -0400, Joe Drew wrote: A long while ago Adrian Bunk filed bugs such as #65797 saying that MP3 decoders, in addition to encoders, were patented. Discussion at that time went along the lines of Prove it, and nothing ever happened. No mp3 decoder was ever moved

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
Jeremy Hankins writes: Jeff Licquia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK. Now I'd like to hear the Debian side. Here are the conditions for modification that are being proposed as I understand them: - you must rename all modified files, or - you must rename the whole of LaTeX in

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Walter Landry
Jeremy Hankins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Licquia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK. Now I'd like to hear the Debian side. Here are the conditions for modification that are being proposed as I understand them: - you must rename all modified files, or - you must rename the whole of

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
Glenn Maynard writes: On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 04:27:57PM -0700, Walter Landry wrote: It sounds like you might have to talk to Branden and maybe Henning as well. I'm not sure about Mark Rafn and Glenn Maynard. Thomas Bushnell, Sam Hartman, and Colin Watson seem to be with you. Those

Re: How about this license ?

2002-07-23 Thread Walter Landry
g tr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I would like to know what you think about this license : http://www.freeusp.org/FreeUSP_License.html Could it be assimilated as GPL ? Would the software licensed under these terms be accepted in debian ? Tahnks for your help and sorry for my english.

Re: MP3 decoders' non-freeness

2002-07-23 Thread Bas Zoetekouw
Hi M.! You wrote: There most certainly are patents on mp3. I won't comment on enforceability or relevance. Regardless, the burden of proof is on the violator of the patents, as they have already been granted. http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/index.html Do these patents also apply to

Re: MP3 decoders' non-freeness

2002-07-23 Thread Joe Drew
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 16:12, Bas Zoetekouw wrote: There most certainly are patents on mp3. I won't comment on enforceability or relevance. Regardless, the burden of proof is on the violator of the patents, as they have already been granted. http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/index.html

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Richard Braakman
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 08:06:29AM -0600, Joe Moore wrote: What's wrong with the conditional statement (unproven assertion:) The LPPL-1.3 is DFSG-free, but only when applied to software which makes the file-renaming requirement easy Well, one of the properties of free software is that you

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
Richard Braakman writes: Hmm, I thought of a perhaps more practical example that also illustrates my desire for transitive closure. What if you take a piece of code from an LPPL'ed work and use it in another project? This other project might lack any facility for remappping filenames.

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Richard Braakman
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 01:47:46PM -0400, Brian Sniffen wrote: Requiring that the tarball for SniffenTeX be no smaller than the tarball for LaTeX, since if I distribute a fork I must distribute a pristine LaTeX *with* it, would be unacceptable. If I'm an English-language bigot who wishes to

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Brian Sniffen
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:50:07 +0200, Frank Mittelbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Jeremy Hankins writes: Jeff Licquia [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK. Now I'd like to hear the Debian side. Here are the conditions for modification that are being proposed as I understand them: - you must

Re: Transitive closure of licenses

2002-07-23 Thread Joe Moore
Richard Braakman wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 08:06:29AM -0600, Joe Moore wrote: What's wrong with the conditional statement (unproven assertion:) The LPPL-1.3 is DFSG-free, but only when applied to software which makes the file-renaming requirement easy Well, one of the properties

Re: User's thoughts about LPPL

2002-07-23 Thread Mark Rafn
David Carlisle [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: However the disagreements there from the Debian side seem to be characterisable as it can't work or I'd have no respect for someone who uses such a licence. I regret making that comment, and I apologize for it. begins digging deeper I intended to

Re: Transitive closure of licenses

2002-07-23 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 03:58:55PM -0600, Joe Moore wrote: Are all derived works from DFSG-free packages DFSG-free? No. The BSD network stack is DFSG-free. But Microsoft's implementation of it is not. But that's due to them licensing their changes under another, non-free license, not due

Bug#154027: libgnomevfs2-0: links in libssl, which violates the license of GPL'd programs linked against it

2002-07-23 Thread Joe Drew
Package: libgnomevfs2-0 Version: 2.0.1-1 Severity: serious Tags: sid [Sorry if this ends up arriving twice.] pisces:~$ ldd /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so [...] libssl.so.0.9.6 = /usr/lib/libssl.so.0.9.6 (0x40249000) libcrypto.so.0.9.6 = /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.6 (0x40275000) [...] Linking anything

Re: Transitive closure of licenses

2002-07-23 Thread Richard Braakman
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 03:58:55PM -0600, Joe Moore wrote: Richard Braakman wrote: Well, one of the properties of free software is that you can change it :) I thought the primary benefit was to have unending discussions about license issues... :) That's another of the properties of free

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 12:58:01PM -0700, Walter Landry wrote: - you must rename the whole of LaTeX in your modified copy AND distribute a pristine copy of LaTeX as well. This is specifically allowed by DFSG #4. The Q Public License uses Branden is asserting that DFSG's patch exception

Re: Transitive closure of licenses

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
Glenn Maynard writes: If I remove any given features from a BSD-licensed program, it remains free. but the same would be true for the LPPL as proposed to be rewritten by me with the help of Jeff and others. I repeat the essential point is that requirement to be able to apply LPPL would be

Re: tetex/tex license

2002-07-23 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 07:00:39PM +0200, Frank Mittelbach wrote: listing them, would be a nice try but hopeless as you would need to keep track of i would guess more than 1000 individual works that end up in tetex texmf trees. That would not be automatable and as a manual process it would be

Re: Bug#154027: libgnomevfs2-0: links in libssl, which violates the license of GPL'd programs linked against it

2002-07-23 Thread Joe Drew
reassign 154027 gnome-vfs2 merge 154027 153642 thanks On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 17:44, Joe Drew wrote: [Sorry if this ends up arriving twice.] As Junichi Uekawa pointed out to me, he had previously filed a bug on gnome-vfs2, #153642, which also includes a (preliminary) gnutls patch. -- Joe Drew

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 13:20, Frank Mittelbach wrote: Jeff Licquia writes: The LaTeX Project is not collecting a bunch of seperate works and combines them into LaTeX. It only provides 3 or 4 core parts of what is known to be LaTeX as well as providing a license (LPPL) which helps

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
Jeff Licquia writes: On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 13:20, Frank Mittelbach wrote: Jeff Licquia writes: The LaTeX Project is not collecting a bunch of seperate works and combines them into LaTeX. It only provides 3 or 4 core parts of what is known to be LaTeX as well as

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 12:32, Jeff Licquia wrote: Comments? Branden, Walter, Mark, and Jeremy, I'm especially interested in your opinions, since you three are the current objectors. Hmm. Time to sign up for those remedial math classes, I think... :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL

Re: Transitive closure of licenses

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 17:03, Richard Braakman wrote: Frank Mittelbach pointed out that the LPPL itself is not transitive, so the code from an LPPL'ed work can be placed under a license that says do anything you want, but don't rename it back to Foo. I hadn't thought of that, and I think it

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Branden Robinson
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 11:53:26PM +0200, Frank Mittelbach wrote: Sure. Before getting to your hypotheticals, I'll try and give you a direct, if generalized, answer. A license must be tested against DFSG 4 when either of the following are true: A) the license places

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Mark Rafn
On 23 Jul 2002, Jeff Licquia wrote: Correct. I want to distinguish here between the rights Debian needs to have and the rights Debian intends to exercise. This may be a useful distinction, in that it reminds license authors to keep I hope and I want out of the license and stick to You must

Re: Transitive closure of licenses

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 17:58, Glenn Maynard wrote: Now, a DFSG-free program only needs one DFSG-free version of all of its dependencies to be in main (and not contrib), but this is getting messy. If B depends on A, and either A or B can be modified in any way, but some modifications to A may

LPPL3 violates DFSG9?

2002-07-23 Thread David Turner
I've read most of the archives, but couldn't find any comments on what I think is the biggest misfeature of the LPPL3. Keep in mind that I'm not speaking for the FSF here, just for me. The FSF hasn't made any decisions yet. Added in LPPL3: {+If The Program is distributed in a packed form with a

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
sorry pressed C-c C-c in the wrong window ... try again Jeff Licquia writes: sorry, but we are not concerned only with the core stuff. even though we don't distribute the rest. The whole set of files put on ctan and identical (on a pristine LaTeX installation) is what makes LaTeX

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 16:36, Mark Rafn wrote: On 23 Jul 2002, Jeff Licquia wrote: The rights we demand are usually for special cases. I strongly disagree. The rights we demand are guaranteed to our users, and they get to decide what's a special case and what's a burning need. Right. I

Re: Transitive closure of licenses

2002-07-23 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 06:09:38PM -0500, Jeff Licquia wrote: It's not so hard to imagine a similar situation outside of TeX-world. To quote a recently seen example: nautilus - libgnomevfs0 If you rebuild libgnomevfs0 and link it to OpenSSL, then you change the license status of

Re: LPPL3 violates DFSG9?

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 19:29, David Turner wrote: I've read most of the archives, but couldn't find any comments on what I think is the biggest misfeature of the LPPL3. Keep in mind that I'm not speaking for the FSF here, just for me. The FSF hasn't made any decisions yet. Added in LPPL3:

Re: Transitive closure of licenses

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 18:34, Glenn Maynard wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 06:09:38PM -0500, Jeff Licquia wrote: It's not so hard to imagine a similar situation outside of TeX-world. To quote a recently seen example: nautilus - libgnomevfs0 If you rebuild libgnomevfs0 and link it to

Re: LPPL3 violates DFSG9?

2002-07-23 Thread David Turner
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 18:35, Jeff Licquia wrote: On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 19:29, David Turner wrote: I've read most of the archives, but couldn't find any comments on what I think is the biggest misfeature of the LPPL3. Keep in mind that I'm not speaking for the FSF here, just for me. The

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Alexander Cherepanov
23-Jul-02 18:46 Frank Mittelbach wrote: The license already allows sub-works within LaTeX to have additional modification requirements beyond the LPPL. If you thought that some of the sub-authors would disagree with relaxing the file naming requirement when changing the name of the work

Re: Question(s) for clarifications with respect to the LPPL discussion

2002-07-23 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Frank Mittelbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] Henning Makholm writes: also not violating LPPL but violating the spirit of it would be to add an article.cls that just contained \input{article-with-recurity-problem-removed.cls}. If such a simple-minded technique will not count in court as a

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Richard Braakman
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 06:05:23PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: It doesn't matter whether the modification is easy or hard. I think the assertions of the Free Software Foundation and some of my fellow Debian developers are misguided in this respect. The DFSG says nothing about how

Re: LPPL3 violates DFSG9?

2002-07-23 Thread Bas Zoetekouw
Hi David! You wrote: Plus, you're talking about other files that are most definitely part of LaTeX that are generated here. It would be different if it required that gcc be installed in /usr/bin, for example. No, I'm making a suggestion that, if a file is distributed under the LPPL,

Re: Transitive closure of licenses

2002-07-23 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Joe Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] If the derived work is licensed under the LPPL, but does not provide an easy remapping facility, then the derived work is not DFSG-free. In this case the easy remapping (or one of the easy remapping options) is to simply provide a *freshly written* file

Re: LPPL3 violates DFSG9?

2002-07-23 Thread Frank Mittelbach
David Turner writes: I've read most of the archives, but couldn't find any comments on what I think is the biggest misfeature of the LPPL3. Keep in mind that I'm not speaking for the FSF here, just for me. The FSF hasn't made any decisions yet. hmmm, perhaps not, but Richard Stallman

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Richard Braakman
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 06:31:26PM -0500, Jeff Licquia wrote: I think they have a legitimate concern about what we distribute versus what users do. What a user does may affect his machine and maybe a few others, but what Debian does can affect thousands of machines. Consider that some of our

Re: LPPL3 violates DFSG9?

2002-07-23 Thread Richard Braakman
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 07:52:15PM -0500, David Turner wrote: [LPPL3] If The Program is distributed in a packed form with a number of files to be generated by some unpacking method from the distributed files, then these derived files are logically (even if not physically present) part of

Re: LPPL3 violates DFSG9?

2002-07-23 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Frank Mittelbach [EMAIL PROTECTED] Added in LPPL3: {+If The Program is distributed in a packed form with a number of files to be generated by some unpacking method from the distributed files, then these derived files are logically (even if not physically present) part of

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Mark Rafn
On 23 Jul 2002, Jeff Licquia wrote: Do you think that it is non-free for a license to require *distributors* to always provide the option to use pristine source when running something? Definitely non-free. Distributors may be required to provide pristine source and patches, but must be

Re: Question(s) for clarifications with respect to the LPPL discussion

2002-07-23 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 02:24:13AM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote: remember LPPL is not the license for the LaTeX kernel it is a license being applied these days to several hundreds of indepeneded works (individually!). Oops. Is the kernel under a different license than LPPL? I suspect he

Re: Towards a new LPPL draft

2002-07-23 Thread Alexander Cherepanov
23-Jul-02 15:02 Mittelbach, Frank wrote: If you think of LPPL applying to the whole of a LaTeX sty/cls tree of files at once, we could, i think live with the idea (it is even described so in modguide or cfgguide as a possible though not encouraged solution (thereby actually violating the

Encoding the name in the file contents (was Re: Towards a new LPPL draft)

2002-07-23 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 21:17, Alexander Cherepanov wrote: The question here is how to guarantee that a changed overcite.sty (without renaming) will not be used with pristine LaTeX, right? If so, LPPL in case of modification without renaming could, for example, require to change an argument of

PDFlib license clarification request

2002-07-23 Thread Ardo van Rangelrooij
Hi, I'm ITP'ing PDFlib which has an Aladdin Free Public License. The full text is available from http://www.pdflib.com/pdflib/aladdin-license.pdf which in short and non-legal terms comes down to - you may develop free software with PDFlib, provided you make all of your own source code

Re: PDFlib license clarification request

2002-07-23 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 10:24:38PM -0500, Ardo van Rangelrooij wrote: I'm ITP'ing PDFlib which has an Aladdin Free Public License. The full text is available from http://www.pdflib.com/pdflib/aladdin-license.pdf which in short and non-legal terms comes down to - you may develop free

Re: [hpoj-devel] Bug#147430: hpoj: Linking against OpenSSL licens ing modificat ion (GPL)

2002-07-23 Thread John Galt
In fact, serious thought ought to be given to using HP's solution as an example to others that have to deal with a similar problem. It sounds like almost the perfect OpenSSL-GPL linking exception. On Tue, 23 Jul 2002, Branden Robinson wrote: [sorry for the broad CC] On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at

Re: PDFlib license clarification request

2002-07-23 Thread Ardo van Rangelrooij
Steve Langasek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 10:24:38PM -0500, Ardo van Rangelrooij wrote: I'm ITP'ing PDFlib which has an Aladdin Free Public License. The full text is available from http://www.pdflib.com/pdflib/aladdin-license.pdf which in short and