Re: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Joe Drew
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 17:28, Branden Robinson wrote: > > Users may copy or modify Sun RPC > > without charge, but are not authorized to license or > > distribute it to anyone else except as part of a product or > > program developed

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Fedor Zuev
On Sat, 22 Aug 2003, Henning Makholm wrote: >Scripsit Fedor Zuev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> KD> So, no text from a document licensed under the >> KD> GFDL which contained an invariant section could be included in an >> KD> encyclopedia, since the invariant section would now be part of >> KD> the "mai

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Brian T. Sniffen
David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:25:27 -0400 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brian T. Sniffen) wrote: >> David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > Less likely, though I certainly wouldn't say it's impossible, is a judge >> > ruling that without providing electricity,

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread John Goerzen
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 08:47:17PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > On 2003-08-22 19:21:22 +0100 Henning Makholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >"DFSG-free Debian bits" > > Yes, reading it back a few hours later, I see that was a particularly > clumsy phrase. By "DFSG-free" there, I meant "free of DFS

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:36:03 -0500, John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:06:26PM -0400, Jeremy Hankins wrote: >> Unless I've missed something, so far there hasn't been anyone >> arguing that the DFSG should not apply to documentation. What >> there has been > I wo

Re: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Don Armstrong
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Henning Makholm wrote: > Scripsit Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. >>> >>> Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, but are >>> not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else >>>

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread David Schleef
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 01:28:29PM +0200, Joerg Wendland wrote: > The point is, I think that there are circumstances where having > invariant sections are _necessary_. When I am writing a report with a > conclusion that contains my very personal opinion, I as the author do > not want anybody to cha

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Richard Braakman
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 01:28:29PM +0200, Joerg Wendland wrote: > The point is, I think that there are circumstances where having > invariant sections are _necessary_. When I am writing a report with a > conclusion that contains my very personal opinion, I as the author do > not want anybody to cha

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Joe Wreschnig
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 15:40, John Goerzen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 01:27:53PM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote: > > > > addresses the problems which affect all GFDL documents: the > > > > requirements for transparent formats, and the "anti-DMCA" clause (the > > > > ban on technical access cont

Virus Found in message "Approved"

2003-08-22 Thread Jane Morgan
Symantec AntiVirus found a virus in an attachment you (debian-legal@lists.debian.org ) sent to Jane Morgan. To ensure the recipient(s) are able to use the files you sent, perform a virus scan on your computer, clean any infected files, then resend this attachment. Attachment: details.pif Vir

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread jorgland
Brian T. Sniffen, on 2003-08-22, 13:54, you wrote: [...] Whew, I though this was a list for serious discussion, but some participants obviously have to reach a certain age first... *plonk* Joerg -- Joerg "joergland" Wendland GPG: 51CF8417 FP: 79C0 7671 AFC7 315E 657A F318 57A3 7FBD 51CF 8417

Re: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > > Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, but are > > not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else > > except as part of a product or program dev

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Fedor Zuev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > KD> So, no text from a document licensed under the > KD> GFDL which contained an invariant section could be included in an > KD> encyclopedia, since the invariant section would now be part of > KD> the "main" discussion. > Main topic of encyclopedi

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 01:41:55PM -0400, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: > > addresses the problems which affect all GFDL documents: the > > requirements for transparent formats, and the "anti-DMCA" clause (the > > ban on technical access control measures). It

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:06:26PM -0400, Jeremy Hankins wrote: > > Unless I've missed something, so far there hasn't been anyone arguing > > that the DFSG should not apply to documentation. > I would hold that position. But I caution people reading th

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Branden Robinson
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 10:14:31AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > I suggest that even if the GFDL did not allow modification of the invariant > sections, if it at least allowed removal of them, we would be in much better > shape. It would, for instance, allow people to better take the manual from >

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
While these issues are valid and some are quite problematic, they are not differences between documentation and software. All these things apply equally to software, and would give us just as much trouble if they ever arose for documentation. While the issues themselves are not the subject here, I

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Branden Robinson
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 10:14:31AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > One of the main sticking points with the GFDL is the use of invariant > sections, which may not be removed or altered (save for some very > inconsequential exceptions.) [...] > What do people here think about that, and is there any ind

Re: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Branden Robinson
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:39:47AM +, Brian M. Carlson wrote: > Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > > Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is > provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend is > included on all tape m

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Branden Robinson
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 09:51:39AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > What I am saying is that we need to have a two-part "California-style" > ballot here: > > 1. Do you believe that DFSG should apply to documentation? That's not a question that the readers of debian-legal can answer for the entire Pro

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread David B Harris
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:25:27 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brian T. Sniffen) wrote: > David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Less likely, though I certainly wouldn't say it's impossible, is a judge > > ruling that without providing electricity, a working computer with a CD > > reader, and a tech

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread John Goerzen
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 01:27:53PM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote: > > > addresses the problems which affect all GFDL documents: the > > > requirements for transparent formats, and the "anti-DMCA" clause (the > > > ban on technical access control measures). It also doesn't > > > > That doesn't see

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Brian T. Sniffen
David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Less likely, though I certainly wouldn't say it's impossible, is a judge > ruling that without providing electricity, a working computer with a CD > reader, and a technician to operate it and read the words aloud, > distributing the documentation on a s

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread David B Harris
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:11:07 -0500 John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > addresses the problems which affect all GFDL documents: the > > requirements for transparent formats, and the "anti-DMCA" clause (the > > ban on technical access control measures). It also doesn't > > That doesn't seem

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread MJ Ray
On 2003-08-22 19:21:22 +0100 Henning Makholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "DFSG-free Debian bits" Yes, reading it back a few hours later, I see that was a particularly clumsy phrase. By "DFSG-free" there, I meant "free of DFSG" not the other, more common sense "free according to DFSG". Plea

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread John Goerzen
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:06:26PM -0400, Jeremy Hankins wrote: > Unless I've missed something, so far there hasn't been anyone arguing > that the DFSG should not apply to documentation. What there has been I would hold that position. But I caution people reading this to not assume that this mea

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 02:11:07PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > 1. I'm a Free Software user. I am using Emacs, a large Free system that > requires documentation to learn by any means. But that documentation is > missing or obsolete because of GFDL. I cannot make use of this Free > package. This

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Fedor Zuev
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Matthew Garrett wrote: >> >>No, you didn't get it. What I wrote before was example for why invariant. >>sections _can_ be useful. Do not compare apples and pears[0]. On the >>other hand is your anti-semetic message subject to penal law not >>copyright law, at least here in Ger

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Steve Langasek
On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 03:30:28AM +0900, Fedor Zuev wrote: > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Joe Moore wrote: > JM>> The point is, I think that there are circumstances where having > JM>> invariant sections are _necessary_. When I am writing a report with a > JM>> conclusion that contains my very personal o

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Jamin W. Collins
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 02:11:07PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 01:41:55PM -0400, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: > > > > addresses the problems which affect all GFDL documents: the > > requirements for transparent formats, and the "anti-DMCA" clause (the > > ban on technical access

Re: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 02:05:57PM -0400, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: > Sun has repeatedly clarified elsewhere that the intent of this is > essentially "MIT/X11, except you may not distribute this product > alone." That cuts out everything but the GPL/LGPL incompatibility problem, which remains a stic

Re: Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Jeff Bailey
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 02:05:57PM -0400, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: > > Has anybody asked Sun for a clarification of the license, or tried to > > obtain the code under a different license? Or maybe the FSF has > > obtained a suitable license and just forgot to update the copyright > > notice? > Su

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread John Goerzen
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 01:41:55PM -0400, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: > That's an interesting compromise you propose, and it would solve the > problems which affect only some GFDL documents. but I don't think it I'm well aware of that. > addresses the problems which affect all GFDL documents: the >

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Fedor Zuev
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Joe Moore wrote: JM>> The point is, I think that there are circumstances where having JM>> invariant sections are _necessary_. When I am writing a report with a JM>> conclusion that contains my very personal opinion, I as the author do JM>> not want anybody to change that sect

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Scott James Remnant
On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 06:09, Branden Robinson wrote: Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 Please mark with an "X" the item that most closely approximates your opinion. Mark only one. [ X ] The GNU Free Documentation License, version 1.2, as published b

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I suspect not many people want DFSG-free Debian bits, so aren't > interested in that survey, so you will need to run it. It would be > very interesting to *finally* read consistent rationale in a "we want > DFSG-free Debian bits" statement. Assuming that'

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Scott James Remnant
On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 12:28, Joerg Wendland wrote: > The point is, I think that there are circumstances where having > invariant sections are _necessary_. When I am writing a report with a > conclusion that contains my very personal opinion, I as the author do > not want anybody to change that sec

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Fedor Zuev
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Keith Dunwoody wrote: KD>Well, consider the following: Invariant sections are only KD>allowed to be material which does not talk about the "main" topic KD>of the work. However, encyclopedias are books which KD>(theoretically anyway) are about _everything_. All topics are KD

Re: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Don Armstrong
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Brian M. Carlson wrote: > Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > > Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, but are > not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else > except as part of a product or program de

Re: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Brian T. Sniffen
Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:39:47AM +, Brian M. Carlson wrote: >>> Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is >>> provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Brian T. Sniffen
Joerg Wendland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Matthew Garrett, on 2003-08-22, 13:09, you wrote: >> As previously pointed out, the same is true of software. I could insert >> anti-semetic messages into pam-pgsql and NMU it now. Perhaps you should >> change your license? > > No, you didn't get it. Wh

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Brian T. Sniffen
Keith Dunwoody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Brian T. Sniffen wrote: >> Joerg Wendland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >>>Matthew Garrett, on 2003-08-21, 16:13, you wrote: >>> Oh, now, come on. The GFDL plainly /isn't/ compatible with the DFSG. Whether or not it /has/ to be compatible with

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Brian T. Sniffen
That's an interesting compromise you propose, and it would solve the problems which affect only some GFDL documents. but I don't think it addresses the problems which affect all GFDL documents: the requirements for transparent formats, and the "anti-DMCA" clause (the ban on technical access contro

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 > [ X ] The GNU Free Documentation License, version 1.2, as published > by the Free Software Foundation, is not a license compatible > with the Debian Free Software

Re: Patents, gimp-nonfree and LAME

2003-08-22 Thread Florian Weimer
"Paul C. Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > My question is: what are the guidelines on packaging code that has > patented technology? Does GIMP's GIF support JPEG is the better example. It's about in the same league as MP3, in terms of enforcement, IMHO.

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread MJ Ray
On 2003-08-22 15:51:39 +0100 John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What I am saying is that we need to have a two-part "California-style" ballot here: So, run that survey, or find someone else to run that survey, but don't carp at Branden for trying to gather data that interests him. I sus

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 12:09:54AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > === CUT HERE === > > Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 > > Please mark with an "X" the item that most closely approximates your > opinion. Mark only one. > > [ X ] The GNU Free Documentation

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread MJ Ray
On 2003-08-22 16:14:31 +0100 John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [delete invariants] What do people here think about that, and is there any indication if the FSF would be amenable to this change? I haven't seen anything to make me think that they would be, but ICBW. It seems to strike a

Re: Should our documentation be free?

2003-08-22 Thread MJ Ray
On 2003-08-22 15:48:05 +0100 Andreas Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I was merely pointing out the fact that instead of splitting in documentation | greyzone | software the separation in documentation | rest is easier (just two classes) and might be good enough. That's not really relevant, t

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Mark Rafn
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, John Goerzen wrote: > One of the main sticking points with the GFDL is the use of invariant > sections But not the only sticking point, I'm afraid. > I suggest that even if the GFDL did not allow modification of the invariant > sections, if it at least allowed removal of the

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 10:14:31AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > One of the main sticking points with the GFDL is the use of invariant > sections, which may not be removed or altered (save for some very > inconsequential exceptions.) One thing about the invariant sections is that > the GFDL specifi

Re: A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread David B Harris
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:14:31 -0500 John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I suggest that even if the GFDL did not allow modification of the invariant > sections, if it at least allowed removal of them, we would be in much better > shape. It would, for instance, allow people to better take the m

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread David B Harris
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:51:39 -0500 John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2. If DFSG should apply to documentation, what should be the disposition of > GFDL according to DFSG? (This is the question you asked.) > > I don't think that the answer to question two can be relevant unless we have > e

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread David B Harris
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:09:54 -0500 Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 > > Please mark with an "X" the item that most closely approximates your > opinion. Mark only one. > > [ X ] The GNU Free Documentation License,

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
I have said this several times before, and I'll try just once more, because it is clearly not getting through to you. On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 01:28:29PM +0200, Joerg Wendland wrote: > The point is, I think that there are circumstances where having > invariant sections are _necessary_. Yes, there

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Jeremy Hankins
John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > What I am saying is that we need to have a two-part "California-style" > ballot here: > > 1. Do you believe that DFSG should apply to documentation? > > 2. If DFSG should apply to documentation, what should be the disposition of > GFDL according to DFSG?

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 03:06:56PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > >[0] german saying translated, does this exist in english? > > It's apples and oranges in English, but yes. Not the same thing. That one expands to "Do not complain that your apple makes a poor orange", or some variation on the th

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 07:50:32AM -0400, Joe Moore wrote: > You said: > > I think the sky is green, and pigs can fly. > > See? You should have licensed your email message so that no one could > modify your comments to "put words in your mouth". I believe that qualifies as libel. At least under

Re: Advice on DFSG status of this licence

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 10:13:18PM -0400, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: > The last sentence just means that "Install Debian GNU/Hurd, with the > RIPE Whois Server!" shouldn't show up on our posters. It's verging on > non-free, violating DFSG 9, but this minor effect has been tolerated > for authors para

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Sebastien Bacher
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 Please mark with an "X" the item that most closely approximates your opinion. Mark only one. [ X ] The GNU Free Documentation License, version 1.2, as published by the

Re: Should our documentation be free?

2003-08-22 Thread Andreas Metzler
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 08:51:06AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On 22 Aug 2003 12:04:55 GMT, Andreas Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >> Actually we don't necessarily need that much, separating "100% >> documenation" and "everything else" should be good enough, and we >> can apply DFSG to the

A possible GFDL compromise

2003-08-22 Thread John Goerzen
One of the main sticking points with the GFDL is the use of invariant sections, which may not be removed or altered (save for some very inconsequential exceptions.) One thing about the invariant sections is that the GFDL specifically states that they "contain nothing that could fall directly withi

Re: [DISCUSSION] SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread John Goerzen
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 03:29:22PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 10:07:20AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote: > > Before I reply, I should add I still see it as wrong and misleading to apply > > *software* guidelines to *documentation*, which to me are fundamentally > > differen

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Keith Dunwoody
Joerg Wendland wrote: Matthew Garrett, on 2003-08-22, 13:09, you wrote: If Emacs had an invarient section discussing fishing and how this had inspired the authoring of the manual, it would be awkward for me to use chunks in my document on an application for recording fishing statistics. And if y

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Matthew Garrett
Joerg Wendland wrote: >Matthew Garrett, on 2003-08-22, 13:09, you wrote: >> As previously pointed out, the same is true of software. I could insert >> anti-semetic messages into pam-pgsql and NMU it now. Perhaps you should >> change your license? > >No, you didn't get it. What I wrote before was ex

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Richard Braakman
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 12:09:54AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: > === CUT HERE === > > Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 > > Please mark with an "X" the item that most closely approximates your > opinion. Mark only one. > > [ X ] The GNU Free Documentation

Re: Should our documentation be free?

2003-08-22 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On 22 Aug 2003 12:04:55 GMT, Andreas Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Actually we don't necessarily need that much, separating "100% > documenation" and "everything else" should be good enough, and we > can apply DFSG to the latter category (including "100% software" and > "partially software"

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Joerg Wendland
Joe Moore, on 2003-08-22, 07:50, you wrote: > You said: > > I think the sky is green, and pigs can fly. > > See? You should have licensed your email message so that no one could > modify your comments to "put words in your mouth". I do see, yes. But that's why I sign each message ;-) Joerg --

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Joe Moore
Joerg Wendland said: > The point is, I think that there are circumstances where having > invariant sections are _necessary_. When I am writing a report with a > conclusion that contains my very personal opinion, I as the author do > not want anybody to change that section, write anything into it th

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Sam Hocevar
> === CUT HERE === > > Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 > > Please mark with an "X" the item that most closely approximates your > opinion. Mark only one. > > [ X ] The GNU Free Documentation License, version 1.2, as published > by the Free Softwar

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Joerg Wendland
MJ Ray, on 2003-08-22, 13:53, you wrote: > I cannot tell what "that" refers to, sorry. My example was why your > argument holds for programs too. Doesn't mean I agree with it. Sorry for my english, "that" should have referred to "example", read "the example was nothing else than an example ..."

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread MJ Ray
On 2003-08-22 13:34:30 +0100 Joerg Wendland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: software != documentation, you cannot compare it like you do. Documentation in the formats debian can distribute is a subset of software. Software != programs, remember (see emails about dictionaries, origins of DFSG and

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Joerg Wendland
Matthew Garrett, on 2003-08-22, 13:09, you wrote: > As previously pointed out, the same is true of software. I could insert > anti-semetic messages into pam-pgsql and NMU it now. Perhaps you should > change your license? No, you didn't get it. What I wrote before was example for why invariant. sec

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Joerg Wendland
MJ Ray, on 2003-08-22, 13:10, you wrote: > that section. Does that mean my program is free software too, in your > opinion? After all, all your arguments seem to hold for it equally > well and programs and documentation-on-disk are just different types > of software. software != documentation

Re: Should our documentation be free? (Was Re: Inconsistencies in our approach)

2003-08-22 Thread Andreas Metzler
Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > On Wed, 06 Aug 2003, Sergey V. Spiridonov wrote: >> So, if you find a definition which makes no difference between >> software and documentation, please send it on this list. >> There is a difference, even if someone doesn't want to see it. > The

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Matthew Garrett
Joerg Wendland wrote: >The point is, I think that there are circumstances where having >invariant sections are _necessary_. When I am writing a report with a >conclusion that contains my very personal opinion, I as the author do >not want anybody to change that section, write anything into it that

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread MJ Ray
On 2003-08-22 12:28:29 +0100 Joerg Wendland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] When I am writing a report with a conclusion that contains my very personal opinion, I as the author do not want anybody to change that section Let's say when I am writing a program with an output that contains my v

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread MJ Ray
Let's see if this goes correctly this time... On Thu, Aug 21, 2003, Branden Robinson wrote: > === CUT HERE === > > Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 > > Please mark with an "X" the item that most closely approximates your > opinion. Mark only one. > > [ X ]

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Joerg Wendland
Brian T. Sniffen, on 2003-08-21, 19:15, you wrote: > Wouldn't it be better, then, to say that you don't think the GFDL > meets the DFSG, but that you think it shouldn't have to? Certainly, > you don't appear to believe that the GFDL both should have to meet the > DFSG and does so. The DFSG does _

Re: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Florian Weimer
Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:39:47AM +, Brian M. Carlson wrote: >> Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is >> provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend is >> included on all tape media and as

Re: Patents, gimp-nonfree and LAME

2003-08-22 Thread Felix E. Klee
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:04:14 + Brian M. Carlson wrote: > > My question is: what are the guidelines on packaging code that has > > patented technology? Does GIMP's GIF support get distributed because > > Unisys is not actively enforcing its LZW patent, while LAME does not > > get distributed be

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Marcelo E. Magallon
> Please reply to this message, to this mailing list, answering the > questions below. If you are a Debian Developer as of the date on > this message, please GPG-sign your reply. GPG key not at hand, sorry. > === CUT HERE === > > Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation Licens

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Raghavendra Bhat
Part 1. DFSG-freeness of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.2 Please mark with an "X" the item that most closely approximates your opinion. Mark only one. [ ] The GNU Free Documentation License, version 1.2, as published by the Free Software Foundation, is not a license comp

Re: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Keith Dunwoody
Brian T. Sniffen wrote: Joerg Wendland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Matthew Garrett, on 2003-08-21, 16:13, you wrote: Oh, now, come on. The GFDL plainly /isn't/ compatible with the DFSG. Whether or not it /has/ to be compatible with the DFSG in order to be in Debian is an entirely separate is

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le jeu 21/08/2003 à 17:07, John Goerzen a écrit : > Before I reply, I should add I still see it as wrong and misleading to apply > *software* guidelines to *documentation*, which to me are fundamentally > different beasts. Thus, I see the question as rather misleading. Could you please explain wh

Re: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:39:47AM +, Brian M. Carlson wrote: > Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is > provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend is > included on all tape media and as a part of the software ^^^

Re: Patents, gimp-nonfree and LAME

2003-08-22 Thread Brian M. Carlson
On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 10:55:12PM -0700, Paul C. Bryan wrote: > My question is: what are the guidelines on packaging code that has > patented technology? Does GIMP's GIF support get distributed because > Unisys is not actively enforcing its LZW patent, while LAME does not get > distributed beca

Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?

2003-08-22 Thread Brian M. Carlson
reopen 181493 ! thanks For the debian-legal people, this is the controversy at hand: Sun RPC code is included as part of glibc. The license, which is included below, prohibits distribution of the original code under its original terms, which would make the license non-free. Including non-free cod

Re: SURVEY: Is the GNU FDL a DFSG-free license?

2003-08-22 Thread Sergey V. Spiridonov
John Goerzen wrote: Before I reply, I should add I still see it as wrong and misleading to apply *software* guidelines to *documentation*, which to me are fundamentally different beasts. Thus, I see the question as rather misleading. I completely agree. However, with the question narrowly fr

Patents, gimp-nonfree and LAME

2003-08-22 Thread Paul C. Bryan
I have attempted to locate discussion on this issue before in debian-legal (as well as debian-devel, incidentally). If this particular issue has been addressed somewhere, please be gentle and direct me to it. If not: I have noted that packages such as LAME will not be packaged in Debian (even