Re: Eclipse 3.0 Running ILLEGALY on Kaffe

2005-01-17 Thread Kalle Kivimaa
Walter Landry [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The kernel has an exemption. This has been pointed out more than once. OK, apache2 depends on Bash to function (/etc/init.d/apache2). This must mean that Debian cannot distribute Apache 2 and Bash together (at least we would have to remove Bash from

Re: Eclipse 3.0 Running ILLEGALY on Kaffe

2005-01-17 Thread Michael Poole
Kalle Kivimaa writes: Matthew Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My recollection is that there is no specific exemption - rather, Linus has said that he believes the syscall layer to be the boundary of derived works. The COPYING starts with this: 'NOTE! This copyright does *not* cover

Re: SableVM/Kaffe pissing contest

2005-01-17 Thread Michael Poole
Walter Landry writes: I meant linking as a shorthand for incorporated as a section of a whole work. Although Kaffe is actually objecting to being distributed while linked to Eclipse. My point is that it has no clear basis for that objection without violating DFSG #9. I am talking about a

Re: Firefox/Thunderbird trademarks: a proposal

2005-01-17 Thread Bill Allombert
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 11:53:14PM -0500, Walter Landry wrote: Gervase Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's my attempt at something which hopefully everyone can accept. I've tried to take into account all the excellent feedback over the past few weeks, for which I thank all involved.

Re: GPL and Copyright Law (Was: Eclipse 3.0 Running ILLEGALY on Kaffe)

2005-01-17 Thread Dalibor Topic
Etienne Gagnon wrote: [OK. One past-last message, as Dalibor does deserve an answer to his nice message.] Dalibor Topic wrote: Can you interpret shell scripts without GNU Bash? Can you interpret makefiles without GNU Make? As far as I can tell, from reading the law and the GPL, the bash

Re: Eclipse 3.0 Running ILLEGALY on Kaffe

2005-01-17 Thread Raul Miller
[3] Debian dependencies. [The GPL doesn't seem to have any requirements in this area.] On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 09:06:31PM -0500, Walter Landry wrote: Actually, it does. The GPL says (with some parts elided) If sections are separate works, then this License does not apply to those

Re: Eclipse 3.0 Running ILLEGALY on Kaffe

2005-01-17 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 10:21:23PM -0500, Walter Landry wrote: The kernel has an exemption. This has been pointed out more than once. Irrelevant: The kernel supplies kernel-specific #include files which are incorporated into C program. Kaffe doesn't supply any such thing -- no one has

Re: Eclipse 3.0 Running ILLEGALY on Kaffe

2005-01-17 Thread Raul Miller
On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 08:07:56AM -0500, Michael Poole wrote: That is clear about *a* copyright holder. It is not necessarily true about all of them. There have been times where Linus's interpretation was not shared by all: Linus has said he has no objection to distributing binary firmware

Re: GPL and Copyright Law (Was: Eclipse 3.0 Running ILLEGALY on Kaffe)

2005-01-17 Thread Dalibor Topic
Dalibor Topic wrote: I'll use a verbatim copy of my post to take apart your and Gadek's claim. Please do not take the heat of the debate as a personal affront. It's not meant to hurt. I very much appreciate your civility in your e-mail messages, which are a refreshing change from the pissing

Re: Questions about legal theory behind (L)GPL

2005-01-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:48:23 -0500, Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GPL is a license document, and automatically receives is a license grant. The GPL doesn't need to be law to grant license -- granting license is what copyright licenses do. On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 10:48:55PM

Re: GPL and Copyright Law (Was: Eclipse 3.0 Running ILLEGALY on Kaffe)

2005-01-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
Summary: Canadian law has a few interesting differences from US law, but I reach the same main conclusions -- the GPL is a valid offer of contract; technical distinctions like linking vs. interpretation are irrelevant to its legal force; and a judge is unlikely to permit the GPL to reach across a

Re: GPL and Copyright Law (Was: Eclipse 3.0 Running ILLEGALY on Kaffe)

2005-01-17 Thread Raul Miller
On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 02:16:37PM -0800, Michael K. Edwards wrote: Summary: Canadian law has a few interesting differences from US law, but I reach the same main conclusions -- the GPL is a valid offer of contract; technical distinctions like linking vs. interpretation are irrelevant to its

Re: Questions about legal theory behind (L)GPL

2005-01-17 Thread Michael K. Edwards
I wrote: Suppose the FSF had gone beyond complaining and threatening when KDE used Qt under the QPL ... And negotiating effectively too, of course. I'm glad that Qt is now QPL/GPL dual licensed, and I prefer the GPL. I don't mean to sound quite so one-sided here; just because I think the