Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-15 Thread Jeremy Hankins
"Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> "Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > >> >> But the question of whether this is a use restriction or a >> >> modification restriction is an interesting one. I believe that it is >> >> an attempt to accomplish a restriction on use v

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-15 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> "Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > >> But the question of whether this is a use restriction or a > >> modification restriction is an interesting one. I believe that it is > >> an attempt to accomplish a restriction on use via a restriction on > >> modification. The intent beh

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-13 Thread Jeremy Hankins
"Lasse Reichstein Nielsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Being proprietary is not an attribute of the use. It is a description > of the exclusion of other uses than the mentioned. Nothing > distinguishes the "proprietary usage" from the "non-prorietary usage" > when looking at the actyual useage o

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-13 Thread Lasse Reichstein Nielsen
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 00:14:55 +0100, Benj. Mako Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Under this logic, copyleft is also a use restriction. It bars proprietary use of free software. Being proprietary is not an attribute of the use. It is a description of the exclusion of other uses than the mention

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-12 Thread Jeremy Hankins
"Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Others have already made the point that the AGPL is not a narrowly >> defined restriction -- that it's actually quite significant and >> ill-defined under certain circumstances. > > Narrowly defined is subjective. I'm not disagreeing with your >

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-12 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> "Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > >> Isn't this exactly what the Affero bit and GPLv3(7d) do? They also > >> "bring copyright into the interactions between [ASP software] and > >> [...] users". > > > > No. They provide a narrowly defined restriction on modification -- > >

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-12 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Sun, Feb 12, 2006 at 12:13:26PM -0500, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > > > If you have one GPL-ish license designed for arcades, and another for toll > > booths, and another for web services, then you can't use code written for > > toll booths in a web service, and vice versa. > > That's a pratical p

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-12 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 04:18:26PM -0500, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > > There's the possibility that we solve this problems in different ways > > for different classes of license. The AGPL might not do that now but > > maybe we can make it do that or find another license that does > > that. Maybe w

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-12 Thread Francesco Poli
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:40:23 -0500 Glenn Maynard wrote: > On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 04:12:39PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: > > Would it be an excessive requirement to provide an offer for source > > (at up to 10 times your cost of providing source)? The offer could > > easily be stuck in the fine p

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-11 Thread Jeremy Hankins
"Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Isn't this exactly what the Affero bit and GPLv3(7d) do? They also >> "bring copyright into the interactions between [ASP software] and >> [...] users". > > No. They provide a narrowly defined restriction on modification -- > something uncontro

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-11 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 04:12:39PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: > Would it be an excessive requirement to provide an offer for source (at > up to 10 times your cost of providing source)? The offer could easily > be stuck in the fine print next to the copyright notices. I've generally been of the o

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-11 Thread Josh Triplett
Glenn Maynard wrote: > A real example (from my own field) where this would cause serious practical > problems is arcade machines. It's clearly "public performance", and players > in arcades really are using (and interacting with) the software directly. > > We include sources to GPL stuff on the m

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-11 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 04:18:26PM -0500, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > There's the possibility that we solve this problems in different ways > for different classes of license. The AGPL might not do that now but > maybe we can make it do that or find another license that does > that. Maybe we have a di

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-11 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> > How do you distinguish between an arcade user and someone using a web > > application? Is it the presence of a network connecting the two? > > I think that's an unnatural distinction. Both web users and arcade > players are equally "users"; there are examples in both cases where > providing

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-11 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> "Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > The bigger problem is that by arguing for this type of new law, we are > > arguing for an expansion of existing copyright law. I'm sure that MS > > and many other ASPs who want to bring copyright into the interactions > > between software

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-10 Thread MJ Ray
Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Just that there has been a period when most debian-legal contributors > were extremists or outright loons like you, and in this period while > other developers were not looking these people found a "consensus" to > change what until then was the widely accepted me

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-10 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 11:07:08AM +, Gervase Markham wrote: > Glenn Maynard wrote: > > But that's a special case; more generally, I don't see any way at all > > of satisfying this for the "voicemail", "toll booth", etc. cases. > > (Though the thought of someone corking up a toll booth lane on

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-10 Thread Gervase Markham
Glenn Maynard wrote: > But that's a special case; more generally, I don't see any way at all > of satisfying this for the "voicemail", "toll booth", etc. cases. > (Though the thought of someone corking up a toll booth lane on a busy > interstate to plug in a USB pen drive and download its source is

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-09 Thread Patrick Herzig
On 10/02/06, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >Please stop repeating the fringe lie. -legal is open to all. It's just > I never affirmed that it's not. > Just that there has been a period when most debian-legal contributors > were extremists or outright loons l

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-09 Thread Marco d'Itri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> If the program is interactive, make it output a short notice like this >> when it starts in an interactive mode: >> >>Gnomovision version 69, Copyright (C) year name of author >>Gnomovision comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `show w'. >>Thi

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-09 Thread Marco d'Itri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Please stop repeating the fringe lie. -legal is open to all. It's just I never affirmed that it's not. Just that there has been a period when most debian-legal contributors were extremists or outright loons like you, and in this period while other developers were not look

Re: GPLv3 affero-compatibility (Re: Affero General Public License)

2006-02-09 Thread Mark Rafn
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Steve Langasek wrote: You then have problems with any "derivative works must be made available under the terms of this license" clause, which is essential to copyleft. Not much more than today. GPLv2 is not compatible with AGPL, nor with the proposed GPLv3. The goal of

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-09 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 01:28:57PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Mark Rafn: > > > Is a work free if some modifications are permitted, but would make > > the resulting work non-free? > > Consider a program which is licensed under the plain GPL. You > incorporate parts of OpenSSL into the progr

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-09 Thread Florian Weimer
* Mark Rafn: > Is a work free if some modifications are permitted, but would make > the resulting work non-free? Consider a program which is licensed under the plain GPL. You incorporate parts of OpenSSL into the program, under the standard OpenSSL licenses. The licenses are not compatible, whi

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-09 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 11:51:45AM +, MJ Ray wrote: > Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >Well, the discussion in March 2003 on debian-legal included the input of an > > >ftpmaster who disagrees, so this definitely isn't a case of a fringe > > >minority on

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-09 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 10:41:55AM -0500, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >No, it is not. The requirement of source redistribution to third parties > > >that you are not distributing binaries to is incompatible with the DFSG. > > Which part of the DFSG, exactly? > The

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 04:03:52PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: > One way would be to supply a compactflash card slot that will burn the > sources to a 1GB compactflash card. That seems a lot less outrageous > today than it did three years ago, to my mind. Actually, our arcade machines are somewhat

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Anthony Towns
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 05:02:22PM -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote: > A real example (from my own field) where this would cause serious practical > problems is arcade machines. It's clearly "public performance", and players > in arcades really are using (and interacting with) the software directly. > >

Re: GPLv3 affero-compatibility (Re: Affero General Public License)

2006-02-08 Thread Steve Langasek
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 11:14:00AM -0800, Mark Rafn wrote: > It occurs to me that one of the biggest mistakes with the GFDL is the > confusion caused by clauses that do not apply in many cases. Licenses > that have options and conditionals are EXTREMELY confusing, and lead to > hassle on the pa

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 09:06:39AM -0500, Jeremy Hankins wrote: > The only possibility that I can think of is to use an idea like "public > performance". I.e., if the work is "publicly performed", source > distribution requirements would apply. Public performance would > probably have to be defin

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Matthew Woodcraft
Nathanael Nerode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So if I create a derivative work of web.py ("webplus.py") which *does* > include the facility mentioned in the AGPL, no subsequent derivative > works of "webplus.py" can ever remove it. This regardless of *my* > desires as the author of the source tran

GPLv3 affero-compatibility (Re: Affero General Public License)

2006-02-08 Thread Mark Rafn
It occurs to me that one of the biggest mistakes with the GFDL is the confusion caused by clauses that do not apply in many cases. Licenses that have options and conditionals are EXTREMELY confusing, and lead to hassle on the part of distributors (and Debian specifically) having to evaluate ea

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Mark Rafn
Mark Rafn wrote: My first suggestion would be to try to word a license clause you believe meets the requirements, THEN figure out how to word GPLv3 to be compatible with it. The extra layer of indirection is confusing. The extra layer may be slightly confusing, but there's a good reason to

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Jeremy Hankins
"Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> The only possibility that I can think of is to use an idea like "public >> performance". I.e., if the work is "publicly performed", source >> distribution requirements would apply. Public performance would >> probably have to be defined in a w

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> Mark Rafn wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Josh Triplett wrote: > >> They may require that if the work interacts with users, but the > >> interface is such that those users do not receive a copy of the > >> software, you must still satisfy the requirements of clause 6 > >> ("Non-Source Distributio

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Mark Rafn
On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: There is the issue of defining *users*. My definition of the user of a software would be the person that is in control of hardware on which the software run. The Affero clause actually reduce their ability to modify their software. I don't think we ne

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Mark Rafn
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Marco d'Itri wrote: I do not find it different in practice from a similar clause in the GPLv2: If the program is interactive, make it output a short notice like this when it starts in an interactive mode: Gnomovision version 69, Copyright (C) year name of author Gno

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> The only possibility that I can think of is to use an idea like "public > performance". I.e., if the work is "publicly performed", source > distribution requirements would apply. Public performance would > probably have to be defined in a way that takes into account the purpose > for which peo

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Jeremy Hankins
"Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I don't think we need to turn this into a semantic argument about the > term user. The authors of the free software definition and both > versions of the GPL think that users are people who, well, *use* > software. "Use" in this case is defined acco

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread olive
Nathanael Nerode wrote: Florian Weimer wrote: It seems that web.py does not include the source transmission facility mentioned in the AGPL. As a result, the additional clause is void, and the license should be DFSG-free. Unfortunately the clause is not void. (1) This is a copyleft, so all d

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread MJ Ray
"Benj. Mako Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > -0500\"> > > The GPLv3 having such a clause has no relevance to its freeness. A > > non- free restriction doesn't become free because the FSF decided to > > use it. > > I never suggested that this is the case. I suggested that we should > perhaps think a b

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread MJ Ray
Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >Well, the discussion in March 2003 on debian-legal included the input of an > >ftpmaster who disagrees, so this definitely isn't a case of a fringe > >minority on -legal holding sway. That doesn't mean Debian can't reconsider >

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Marco d'Itri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >The issue, as I understand it, comes down to one of two things. As >Steve phrased it, it would probably fail the Chinese dissident test >which, while not part of the DFSG, is seen as a useful tool by many >people on this list. And while some misguided people think it's u

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Marco d'Itri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> and for >> GPLv2(2)(c) in particular. >Bad example; if that clause were in any other license, it probably would >have been declared non-free a long time ago. Yes, and this shows quite clearly how a few people on debian-legal@ are trying to change the meaning of the DFSG

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 12:31:16AM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: > > Although the "interface is such that" bit feels a little awkward, this > > is a step forward. If I use a source file from eg. Apache in a tiny > > embedded device, allow me to supply the source (that won't even fit > > on the devic

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Josh Triplett
Mark Rafn wrote: > On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Josh Triplett wrote: >> They may require that if the work interacts with users, but the >> interface is such that those users do not receive a copy of the >> software, you must still satisfy the requirements of clause 6 >> ("Non-Source Distribution") as though

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-08 Thread Josh Triplett
Glenn Maynard wrote: > On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 02:10:23PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: >>They may require that if the work interacts with users, but the >>interface is such that those users do not receive a copy of the >>software, you must still satisfy the requirements of clause 6 >>("Non-Source Di

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 11:00:00AM -0500, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > > > > I *do* think that the spirit behind the AGPL and Affero-inspired > > clause in the GPLv3 is fully in line with our principles. *Users* of > > software should be able to modify their software. > > There is the issue of def

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Nathanael Nerode
On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Florian Weimer wrote: >It seems that web.py does not include the source transmission facility >mentioned in the AGPL. As a result, the additional clause is void, >and the license should be DFSG-free. As noted by Mark Rafn, a derivative work which added the source transmission

Re: Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Florian Weimer wrote: > It seems that web.py does not include the source transmission facility > mentioned in the AGPL. As a result, the additional clause is void, > and the license should be DFSG-free. Unfortunately the clause is not void. (1) This is a copyleft, so all derivative works must use

Re: Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Nathanael Nerode
(Kai Hendry) > > > I thought I should just check with you guys if the license is OK for > > > Debian. > > (Steve Langasek) > > No, it is not. The requirement of source redistribution to third > > parties that you are not distributing binaries to is incompatible with > > the DFSG. > (Benj. Mako H

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 03:55:41PM -0800, Mark Rafn wrote: > Should a smaller list than d-l be used for brainstorming this? I'm happy > to join (or not, at your request, depending on whether my critiques are > helpful or harmful), but I hesitate to spam d-l too much with it while > working out

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Mark Rafn
On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Josh Triplett wrote: They may require that if the work interacts with users, but the interface is such that those users do not receive a copy of the software, you must still satisfy the requirements of clause 6 ("Non-Source Distribution") as though you had distributed the wor

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 02:10:23PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: > They may require that if the work interacts with users, but the > interface is such that those users do not receive a copy of the > software, you must still satisfy the requirements of clause 6 > ("Non-Source Distribution") as though

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Bill Allombert
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 11:00:00AM -0500, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > > I *do* think that the spirit behind the AGPL and Affero-inspired > clause in the GPLv3 is fully in line with our principles. *Users* of > software should be able to modify their software. There is the issue of defining *users*.

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Josh Triplett
Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > Thanks, Josh. This was a pretty cogent and helpful explication. Thank you. :) > > >>There are two separate, mostly-independent issues with the AGPL: >> >>1) The issue of whether this type of clause is OK at all. This is >>certainly an open issue. I lean towards saying

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Josh Triplett
Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > The second argument is it fails the much more generic DFSG3 "must > allow modification" argument. Barring modification of the license and > copyright statement seems completely uncontroversial for obvious > reasons. Similarly, there is consensus that barring modification of

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> On Mon, Feb 06, 2006 at 11:53:22PM -0500, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > > I don't think that issue is a closed one. As you and others have > > mentioned in other threads, the GPLv3 will probably have a Affero-type > > clause. > > The GPLv3 having such a clause has no relevance to its freeness. A >

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
Thanks, Josh. This was a pretty cogent and helpful explication. > There are two separate, mostly-independent issues with the AGPL: > > 1) The issue of whether this type of clause is OK at all. This is > certainly an open issue. I lean towards saying that it is > theoretically possible for such

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Mark Rafn
http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Florian Weimer wrote: It seems that web.py does not include the source transmission facility mentioned in the AGPL. As a result, the additional clause is void, and the license should be DFSG-free. This is an interesting question. Is a wor

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> > Several people, at least, have spoken up in favor of this sort > > of clause being both in the spirit of the GPL and the DFSG. > > Well, the discussion in March 2003 on debian-legal included the > input of an ftpmaster who disagrees, so this definitely isn't a case > of a fringe minority on -

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Mark Rafn
http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html I thought I should just check with you guys if the license is OK for Debian. No, it is not. The requirement of source redistribution to third parties that you are not distributing binaries to is incompatible with the DFSG. On Mon, 6 Feb 2006, Benj. Mako Hill w

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >No, it is not. The requirement of source redistribution to third parties > >that you are not distributing binaries to is incompatible with the DFSG. > > Which part of the DFSG, exactly? The issue, as I understand it, comes down to one of two things. As Steve phra

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Marco d'Itri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I don't think that issue is a closed one. As you and others have >mentioned in other threads, the GPLv3 will probably have a Affero-type >clause. Several people, at least, have spoken up in favor of this sort >of clause being both in the spirit of the GPL and the DFSG. I

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Marco d'Itri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >No, it is not. The requirement of source redistribution to third parties >that you are not distributing binaries to is incompatible with the DFSG. Which part of the DFSG, exactly? -- ciao, Marco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubs

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-07 Thread Marco d'Itri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Well, the discussion in March 2003 on debian-legal included the input of an >ftpmaster who disagrees, so this definitely isn't a case of a fringe >minority on -legal holding sway. That doesn't mean Debian can't reconsider debian-legal in 2003 *was* a fringe minority in i

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-06 Thread Florian Weimer
* Steve Langasek: > On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 02:00:03AM +, Kai Hendry wrote: >> There is a python library I want to package (#349763) that uses the >> Affero General Public License (AGPL). > >> http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html > >> I thought I should just chec

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-06 Thread Steve Langasek
On Mon, Feb 06, 2006 at 11:53:22PM -0500, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > > > On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 02:00:03AM +, Kai Hendry wrote: > > > There is a python library I want to package (#349763) that uses the > > > Affero General Public License (AGPL). > > > http:

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-06 Thread Josh Triplett
Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > >>On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 02:00:03AM +, Kai Hendry wrote: >>>There is a python library I want to package (#349763) that uses the >>>Affero General Public License (AGPL). >> >>>http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html >> >&

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-06 Thread Glenn Maynard
On Mon, Feb 06, 2006 at 11:53:22PM -0500, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: > I don't think that issue is a closed one. As you and others have > mentioned in other threads, the GPLv3 will probably have a Affero-type > clause. The GPLv3 having such a clause has no relevance to its freeness. A non- free restr

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-06 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
> On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 02:00:03AM +, Kai Hendry wrote: > > There is a python library I want to package (#349763) that uses the > > Affero General Public License (AGPL). > > > http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html > > > I thought I should just check with

Re: Affero General Public License

2006-02-06 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 02:00:03AM +, Kai Hendry wrote: > There is a python library I want to package (#349763) that uses the > Affero General Public License (AGPL). > http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html > I thought I should just check with you guys if the license is OK for > Deb

Affero General Public License

2006-02-06 Thread Kai Hendry
There is a python library I want to package (#349763) that uses the Affero General Public License (AGPL). http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html I thought I should just check with you guys if the license is OK for Debian. http://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2006/02/msg00020.html I couldn&#

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-27 Thread Nathanael Nerode
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Because the AGPL has some implementation issues that make it possibly > incompatible with the DFSG, I've been trying to find an alternative that > would still protect source-code redistribution on line. "First, do no harm." Any such license must, at a minimum, guarante

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-23 Thread Mark Rafn
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Gregor Richards wrote: I doubt that it is compliant with the Dissident Problem by your opinions (< plural your), but I think that it's well within line of all of the other requirements, I contend that the dissident problem is not the only sticking point; fundamentally you

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Gregor Richards
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:36:50 -0700, "Gregor Richards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Mark Rafn wrote: > > > I'd like to encourage you to think less along the lines "it's > > currently a web server, so the license should cater to that case" and > > more like "people should be able to make things ou

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Gregor Richards
Mark Rafn wrote: I'd like to encourage you to think less along the lines "it's currently a web server, so the license should cater to that case" and more like "people should be able to make things out of this that I haven't thought of, using methodologies yet undreamt". This can't happen if y

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Mark Rafn
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Gregor Richards wrote: If the alternatives provided by clause 3 of the GNU GPL were also options, would that be an improvement? That is, if, instead of providing source within the page itself, an offer to provide source was given, would that work? I believe this to be an

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Gregor Richards
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:04:27 -0500, "Jeff Licquia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Wed, 2005-06-22 at 10:19 -0700, Gregor Richards wrote: > > In response to "Still unworkable. I want to use the code for some > > embedded use ..." > > How is this unworkable? To support the HTTP protocol to the degr

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Jeff Licquia
On Wed, 2005-06-22 at 10:19 -0700, Gregor Richards wrote: > In response to "Still unworkable. I want to use the code for some > embedded use ..." > How is this unworkable? To support the HTTP protocol to the degree of > sending source code does not require a full HTTP sever per se. Hell, > you c

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 04:54:49PM -0300, Humberto Massa Guimar?es wrote: > > > After all, according to www.gnu.org , the Affero General Public > > > License is "Free Software," and I should think that history > > > would give them precedence in making such a

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Humberto Massa Guimarães
t's the closest > thing I can find to my personal definition of freedom. > Me too. And the process of discovering what is and what is not DFSG-free is another thing that attracts me to Debian. > > After all, according to www.gnu.org , the Affero General Public > > License

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Mark Rafn
is open to interpretation, the DFSG is not the be-all-end-all of what is and isn't "Free". True. This is why I use and support Debian - it's the closest thing I can find to my personal definition of freedom. After all, according to www.gnu.org , the Affero Genera

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Gregor Richards
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:58:07 -0700 (PDT), "Mark Rafn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Before going too far down this road, see > http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/03/msg00805.html > for some fundamental questions about where to draw the line on this > requirement. Unless you're willing to

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Gregor Richards
the pure GPL? > -- > Mark Rafn[EMAIL PROTECTED]<http://www.dagon.net/> > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In response to "I'm afraid yo

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Mark Rafn
Before going too far down this road, see http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/03/msg00805.html for some fundamental questions about where to draw the line on this requirement. Unless you're willing to say "all changes must be published, even if never released", it's gonna be tough to fi

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Gregor Richards
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:05:00 -0700, "Gregor Richards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Because the AGPL has some implementation issues that make it possibly > incompatible with the DFSG, I've been trying to find an alternative that > would still protect source-code redistribution on line. Basically, I'

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Humberto Massa Guimarães
Hi Gregor. Let's see if I can understand your motivations, and help you. ** Gregor Richards :: > > In response to "An interface to the program, not the program > > itself" Am I the only person who fails to see this as a > > significant difference? I don't think the freedoms of Free > > Software

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Lewis Jardine
Gregor Richards wrote: In response section 6: (So that I can reference, the full section:) 6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-22 Thread Gregor Richards
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:57:39 -0700, "Gregor Richards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Jacobo Tarrio wrote: > > >O Martes, 21 de Xuño de 2005 ás 20:07:36 -0700, Gregor Richards escribía: > > > >>In response section 6: > >>(So that I can reference, the full section:) > >>6. Each time you redistribute

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-21 Thread Gregor Richards
Jacobo Tarrio wrote: >O Martes, 21 de Xuño de 2005 ás 20:07:36 -0700, Gregor Richards escribía: > >>In response section 6: >>(So that I can reference, the full section:) >>6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the >>Program), the recipient automatically receives a licens

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-21 Thread Jacobo Tarrio
O Martes, 21 de Xuño de 2005 ás 20:07:36 -0700, Gregor Richards escribía: > In response section 6: > (So that I can reference, the full section:) > 6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the > Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the > original li

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-21 Thread Gregor Richards
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 02:52:55 +, "Brian M. Carlson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 19:05 -0700, Gregor Richards wrote: > > Because the AGPL has some implementation issues that make it possibly > > incompatible with the DFSG, I've been trying to find an alternative that > > wo

Re: Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-21 Thread Brian M. Carlson
On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 19:05 -0700, Gregor Richards wrote: > Because the AGPL has some implementation issues that make it possibly > incompatible with the DFSG, I've been trying to find an alternative that > would still protect source-code redistribution on line. Basically, I'm > trying to write a

Alternatives to the Affero General Public License

2005-06-21 Thread Gregor Richards
Because the AGPL has some implementation issues that make it possibly incompatible with the DFSG, I've been trying to find an alternative that would still protect source-code redistribution on line. Basically, I'm trying to write a special exception to the GNU GPL that would add this without some