Hello,
We're catching the tail-end of discussions about Debian's up-coming
official wiki at http://wiki.debian.org/, specifically, the migration
of material from the unofficial wiki at http://wiki.debian.net/.
I'd like to raise the issue of wiki material licencing before it gets
too late to do
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On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:39:19 +0100
Jon Dowland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am happy to work on how to do this with moin moin but I need to know
that others agree this is necessary.
...and I'd be happy to work with upstream to incorporate such
MJ Ray wrote:
Daniel Ruoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] skribis:
So, are we going to stablish the criterias for organizations to have the
right of using the Debian name? Like a type of fair-use?
Not me in the forseeable. spi-trademark would be the next step,
but it was just my opinion on a question
Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...]
Ah, so you're drawing a link between DCC, a group who have placed the words
Debian and Core in their name without considering the obvious consequences,
and the group of Debian folks in the UK who have decided that it was
reasonable to refer to
Scripsit MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, there's a BIG similarity:
* both took the debian name for business use without consent;
You are pretty much the only one who asserts that Debian UK has
anything at all to do with business. Despite being asked for
clarification several times, you have
[ I've been trying to let this stuff drop. *sigh* ]
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 01:49:01PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
rant snipped
You've not been constructive either (LaLaLa indeed!) and I
can't fix your organisation despite you. There's no need to
wonder at my motives. I've written them several times:
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 02:40:14PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
Mark, you keep on mentioning this. Precisely what personal details do
you think D-UK holds about you, either correct or incorrect?
I'm pretty sure that's it right there. And getting people's names
wrong when replying to
Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 02:40:14PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
Mark, you keep on mentioning this. Precisely what personal details do
you think D-UK holds about you, either correct or incorrect?
I'm pretty sure that's it right there. And
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Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 02:40:14PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
Mark, you keep on mentioning this. Precisely what personal details do
you think D-UK holds about you, either correct or incorrect?
* Henning Makholm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Scripsit MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, there's a BIG similarity:
* both took the debian name for business use without consent;
You are pretty much the only one who asserts that Debian UK has
anything at all to do with business. Despite being
* Steve McIntyre ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
[ I've been trying to let this stuff drop. *sigh* ]
I'm quite sure you'd appriciate it being dropped entirely and for you to
be able to go on your merry way doing whatever you'd like.
Unfortunately, life doesn't quite work that way. :)
d. You could
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 10:01:12AM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
* Henning Makholm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Scripsit MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, there's a BIG similarity:
* both took the debian name for business use without consent;
You are pretty much the only one who asserts that
Scripsit Stephen Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Henning Makholm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
You are pretty much the only one who asserts that Debian UK has
anything at all to do with business. Despite being asked for
clarification several times, you have spectacularly failed to
document, or even
* Henning Makholm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Scripsit Stephen Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Henning Makholm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
You are pretty much the only one who asserts that Debian UK has
anything at all to do with business. Despite being asked for
clarification several times,
Simon Huggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's just a more formal, more accountable situation than what was
happening before when Steve shoved Debian money into a shoebox under his
bed.
Is it any more accountable to hold an AGM if you belittle the
idea of using it as an AGM? No, that's a sham.
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Scripsit MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, there's a BIG similarity:
* both took the debian name for business use without consent;
You are pretty much the only one who asserts that Debian UK has
anything at all to do with business. Despite being
* Simon Huggins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
It's just a more formal, more accountable situation than what was
happening before when Steve shoved Debian money into a shoebox under his
bed.
Things have gotten muddled though and that's the problem. There's a
number of issues here:
1) Holding
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 04:17:34PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Simon Huggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's just a more formal, more accountable situation than what was
happening before when Steve shoved Debian money into a shoebox under his
bed.
Is it any more accountable to hold an AGM if you
* Simon Huggins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Every post of yours on this subject, in my opinion, shows you *adore*
bureaucracy or you wouldn't persist in this mindnumbingly dull debate
over a point which has no relevance to -project any more (given the
grant of the trademark use).
I hate to
Simon Huggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I note you didn't turn up to the AGM to try to put your point across - I
can only assume that [... conspiracy theory ...]
Or you could assume that I dislike bureaucracy and drunken barbecues
(I can't drink much) and spent our last bank holiday weekend of
Another subthread that could/should go off-list but once and once only:
Brett Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Interesting, I've worked with MJ Ray, and his name is DEFINATELY Mark.
Is it wrong to address someone by there name these days?
I've just checked my credit cards and even a tax notice
Stephen Frost wrote:
* Simon Huggins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
I realise that money can be very devisive but these are relatively small
amounts of money used well for the good of Debian.
Even small amounts of money can change people's priorities.
It seems that you are under the impression
Steve McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...] Precisely what personal details do
you think D-UK holds about you, either correct or incorrect?
How is DUS recording its membership? I can't think of a way
for it to do so without either dumping data from db.d.o (are
businesses allowed to do that?)
Stephen Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Things have gotten muddled though and that's the problem. There's a
number of issues here:
Thanks for the fresh eyeballs. Here's my take:
1) Holding money in the UK on behalf of Debian
2) Selling t-shirts and whatnot
3) The name issue with 'Debian-UK'
Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The way we price this stuff has always been based on selling it as cheaply
as possible, while making the numbers round for convenient change at Expos,
and aiming to do just better than break-even [...]
How can anyone define a not-for-profit business if
* Philip Hands ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Stephen Frost wrote:
* Simon Huggins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
I realise that money can be very devisive but these are relatively small
amounts of money used well for the good of Debian.
Even small amounts of money can change people's
Scripsit MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You are pretty much the only one who asserts that Debian UK has
anything at all to do with business. Despite being asked for
clarification several times, you have spectacularly failed to
document, or even argue for,
Scripsit Stephen Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems that you are under the impression that the activities such as the
selling of T-shirts are done for the purpose of raising money. (Not
surprising given the spin that MJ Ray's been putting on it)
It doesn't actually make any difference at all
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 12:12:44PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
We would be most glad then if you would stop trying to harm it by
involving all the members in a stupid flamewar on -project then. Trust
me you are visibly doing harm.
Attempting to work out the concerns of DDs and how the
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Scripsit MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
Yes, I've a personal axe, but it's based on this real event:
I was told I had been made a member of a new UK unincorporated
association based on db.d.o data. Even if
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Scripsit Stephen Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems that you are under the impression that the activities such as the
selling of T-shirts are done for the purpose of raising money. (Not
surprising given the spin that MJ Ray's been putting on it)
It
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 12:12:44PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
We would be most glad then if you would stop trying to harm it by
involving all the members in a stupid flamewar on -project then. Trust
me you are visibly doing harm.
Attempting
* Henning Makholm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Scripsit Stephen Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems that you are under the impression that the activities such as the
selling of T-shirts are done for the purpose of raising money. (Not
surprising given the spin that MJ Ray's been putting on it)
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 06:30:46PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
* Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 12:12:44PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
We would be most glad then if you would stop trying to harm it by
involving all the members in a stupid flamewar on
Stephen Frost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1) Holding money in the UK on behalf of Debian
2) Selling t-shirts and whatnot
3) The name issue with 'Debian-UK'
4) The 'opt-out' membership
5) The beer-bashes
6) The bank account
For my part, I think #1, #3 and #6 go just fine together.
Sure.
Sven Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This doesn't strike me as much different than loads of other inon-profit
associations
(maybe thisis a frenchisism though ?) do in all legallity, and i see nothing
there which really involves trademark or our attitude with regard commercial
distributions.
Matthew Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's somewhat worth pointing out that Mark has something of a reputation
for inter-personal friction.
I assume you're referring to me. That myth exists mostly among
some DD cliques (IRCers? unsure), some LUGgers (but not all, as
I still get speaking
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Scripsit MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...]
As previously argued, DUS is an enterprise generating income from
commercial sale of goods - a business.
More assertions.
Assertions?
That DUS is an enterprise?
That DUS generates income from commercial sale
Scripsit Rich Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Actually, depending on what parts of UK law the organisation ended up
falling under (and without a clear constitution c this will probably
*not* be what you expect it to be) the membership might be jointly and
severally liable for the actions of the
On Tue, Sep 06, 2005 at 07:15:19PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The way we price this stuff has always been based on selling it as cheaply
as possible, while making the numbers round for convenient change at Expos,
and aiming to do just better than break-even
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