Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:28:58PM +0100, Francesca Ciceri a écrit : > > A diversity statement is a document expliciting something really > important: that everyone (no matter of gender identity or expression, > race, ethnicity, size, nationality, sexual orientation, ability level, > neurotype, re

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Faidon Liambotis
On 03/23/12 15:28, Francesca Ciceri wrote: So, I wrote a draft - mainly based on the one [4] created for Ubuntu by Matt Zimmerman with the help of Mary Gardiner, Valerie Aurora and Benjamin Mako Hill - and I'd like to propose it to the DPL to be official published. Thanks for doing this. Howev

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Ben Finney
Russ Allbery writes: > You can't have an open and welcoming environment if you're open to > people who work to make the environment non-welcoming to others. It > is, like most things in life, a balance. Yes. This is why I'm troubled by the blanket welcome to opinions, like political opinions and

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Russ Allbery
Ben Finney writes: > That gets to another troubling part of the draft: Are there not some > political opinions, even some religions, that we should discriminate > against as being detrimental to the goal of a universal operating > system? Meh. Yes, sort of, I guess, but pretty much everyone els

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Ben Finney
Francesca Ciceri writes: > On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:56:21PM +, Ian Jackson wrote: > > I think we should make it clear that our aim is that participation > > in the development of Debian should be equally open to all, > > discriminating only on the basis of people's ability and the quality >

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Ben Finney
gregor herrmann writes: > On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 20:38:39 +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: > > > I can think of another thing that we care about, which I don't see > > mentioned here: "We expect people to be constructive members of the > > community." > > Agreed. > > And I think we are also not open to peo

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread gregor herrmann
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 13:17:42 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > > And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these > > values, e.g. people with a racist, sexist, ... behaviour. > While I certainly agree, I think it's best to leave the latter implicit in > the statement of what we *do* ac

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread gregor herrmann
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 13:25:41 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > >> And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these > >> values, e.g. people with a racist, sexist, ... behaviour. > > Why? > You can't have an open and welcoming environment if you're open to people > who work to make the e

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Russ Allbery
Jakub Wilk writes: > * gregor herrmann , 2012-03-23, 21:07: >> And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these >> values, e.g. people with a racist, sexist, ... behaviour. > Why? You can't have an open and welcoming environment if you're open to people who work to make the envi

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Russ Allbery
Joerg Jaspert writes: > On 12794 March 1977, Francesca Ciceri wrote: >> a recent discussion [1] on Debian Women mailing list made me realize >> that the Debian Project, the *Universal* Operating System, doesn't have >> a diversity statement [2]. > Why do we need such a statement? Are we doing so

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Jakub Wilk
* gregor herrmann , 2012-03-23, 21:07: And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these values, e.g. people with a racist, sexist, ... behaviour. Why? -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? C

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Russ Allbery
gregor herrmann writes: > On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 20:38:39 +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: >> I can think of another thing that we care about, which I don't see >> mentioned here: "We expect people to be constructive members of the >> community." > Agreed. > And I think we are also not open to people who

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Joerg Jaspert
On 12794 March 1977, Francesca Ciceri wrote: > a recent discussion [1] on Debian Women mailing list made me realize that > the Debian Project, the *Universal* Operating System, doesn't have a > diversity statement [2]. Why do we need such a statement? Are we doing something better or worse with/w

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread gregor herrmann
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 20:38:39 +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: > I can think of another thing that we care about, which I don't see > mentioned here: "We expect people to be constructive members of the > community." Agreed. And I think we are also not open to people who don't share these values, e.g. pe

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Enrico Zini
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:28:58PM +0100, Francesca Ciceri wrote: > But I'd also like to have some inputs from you all, on it. Since one of my responsibilities in Debian is to actually discriminate people, I feel like I should contribute :) I like your idea. Such a statement is IMO a direct cons

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Russ Allbery
Ian Jackson writes: > There are other kinds of ability besides technical ability. All of > those useful activities you mentioned depend on the ability of the > people doing them. And it is right and proper that when we choose with > whom we do these things, we should discriminate on the basis o

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Ian Jackson
Francesca Ciceri writes ("Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project"): > On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:56:21PM +, Ian Jackson wrote: > > I think we should make it clear that our aim is that participation in > > the development of Debian should be equally open to all, > > discriminating only o

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Ian Jackson
Francesca Ciceri writes ("Diversity statement for the Debian Project"): > So, I wrote a draft - mainly based on the one [4] created for Ubuntu > by Matt Zimmerman with the help of Mary Gardiner, Valerie Aurora > and Benjamin Mako Hill - and I'd like to propose it to the DPL to be > official publis

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Russ Allbery
Jakub Wilk writes: > * Francesca Ciceri , 2012-03-23, 14:28: >> Although this list cannot be exhaustive, we explicitly honour diversity >> in age, culture, ethnicity, genotype, gender identity or expression, >> language, national origin, neurotype, phenotype, political beliefs, >> profession, rac

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Francesca Ciceri
Hi Ian, On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 02:56:21PM +, Ian Jackson wrote: > Francesca Ciceri writes ("Diversity statement for the Debian Project"): > ... > > Although this list cannot be exhaustive, we explicitly honour diversity > > in age, culture, ethnicity, genotype, gender identity or expression,

Re: Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Jakub Wilk
* Francesca Ciceri , 2012-03-23, 14:28: Although this list cannot be exhaustive, we explicitly honour diversity in age, culture, ethnicity, genotype, gender identity or expression, language, national origin, neurotype, phenotype, political beliefs, profession, race, religion, sexual orientation

Diversity statement for the Debian Project

2012-03-23 Thread Francesca Ciceri
Hi all, a recent discussion [1] on Debian Women mailing list made me realize that the Debian Project, the *Universal* Operating System, doesn't have a diversity statement [2]. Yet. :) A diversity statement is a document expliciting something really important: that everyone (no matter of gender i