On Mi, 19 iun 13, 10:33:42, MJ Ray wrote:
>
> I would prefer a simpler listing of which developers are available for
> hire and which projects they are interested in working on. If that
> could be presented in the PTS, package managers or reportbug, that
> would be great. Would anyone block such
l Message -
From: MJ Ray
To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations
Venture Communism
> Everything you said made sense until you said PaySwarm might not bet
> the best way to expose financial data to
Venture Communism
> Everything you said made sense until you said PaySwarm might not bet
> the best way to expose financial data to the light of day. Actually
> PaySwarm's data formats are in JSON-LD and therefore allow for web
> native royalty-free ontology hosting in a way that is maximally
> in
are cooperatives and into hardware
cooperatives, http://venturecommunism.com is trying to open source the business
models.
- Original Message -
From: MJ Ray
To: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: PaySwarm-based Debian donations
Toll
Tollef Fog Heen
> Money is a very undemocratic resource, and I believe that tipping (which
> is what I consider small donations based on work done by an individual
> to a single package is) is denigrating and a blight upon the world.
tfheen is not alone. This podcast suggests a correlation betwe
Nikolaus Rath writes:
> Russ Allbery writes:
>> Some of us (myself definitely included) are involved in free software
>> precisely *because* we're strongly anti-capitalist, anti-marketing, and
>> firmly opposed to the economic structures that dominate so much of the
>> rest of life. If your ple
Russ Allbery writes:
> Some of us (myself definitely included) are involved in free software
> precisely *because* we're strongly anti-capitalist, anti-marketing, and
> firmly opposed to the economic structures that dominate so much of the
> rest of life. If your plea is for distributions to act
Martin Owens writes:
> On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 22:00 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> If that's what an upstream is after, they should pick a different
>> software license;
> Non-Commercial terms are non-free. If they want to exclude commercial
> distribution they should not be involved in Free Softw
On Tue, 2013-06-18 at 14:25 +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> and I'd be willing to accept that we may need to improve
Yes.
FYI Not my new toy. I'm not affiliated with and have no relation to
payswarm. The technical mechanism isn't as important as the social ones.
M
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On 18-06-13 05:50, Martin Owens wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:44 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> They are not the same thing at all. The social effects
>> are almost completely different.
>
> It's not a false equivalence. Participation is not just about being a
> programmer, if you can convince
On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 22:00 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> If that's what an upstream is after, they should pick a different
> software license;
Non-Commercial terms are non-free. If they want to exclude commercial
distribution they should not be involved in Free Software.
Free as in Freedom, the f
Hi,
I didnt want to participate in this thread anymore (all has been said) but then
I found this new study linked below by chance and found it matching this thread
too well...
On Dienstag, 18. Juni 2013, Brian Gupta wrote:
> What do you think of this recent University Study?
> http://www.dailym
]] Manu Sporny
> On 06/16/2013 06:26 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> > OTOH, I think it would be fine to have something at the package level
> > to pass on donations to our upstreams, as well as to ease donating to
> > the Debian project as a whole. See [1,2], already mentioned by Paul
> > Wise i
On Tue, June 18, 2013 04:31, Martin Owens wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:03 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>> site requesting user's charity
>
> You mean user's involvement. You don't want users to be invited to
> participate in Debian. Debian isn't elitist and it shouldn't care that
> the tool being
and
I'm getting up to speed) was about socioeconomic class, in that event?
- Original Message -
From: Brian Gupta
To: Martin Owens
Cc: Gunnar Wolf ; Manu Sporny ;
Holger Levsen ; debian-project@lists.debian.org
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: PaySwarm-based Debia
ever know.
2) Co-maint of gcc, bash, libc, linux should be done by responsible people. If
they're responsible they'll re-gift the money intelligently. This is a gift
economy and a transparency issue and a community issue of what should the
future of Debian be as decided by those entrusted
the money intelligently. This is a gift
economy and a transparency issue and a community issue of what should the
future of debian be as decided by those entrusted with its future, especially
the maintainers of the more popular packages.
3) About "paybullies", manage expectations better. Code
Martin Owens writes:
> On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 21:18 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> how Debian is "in the way"
> Debian takes code from websites with donation buttons, economic
> incentive options, kickstarter updates, support contracts, developer
> sponsorships, programs and projects of all kinds
On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 21:18 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> how Debian is "in the way"
Debian takes code from websites with donation buttons, economic
incentive options, kickstarter updates, support contracts, developer
sponsorships, programs and projects of all kinds and general invitations
to parti
Martin Owens writes:
> The case was stated, it wasn't made.
Then we'll agree to disagree. But I'll point out that the status quo is
to not do this. I believe the onus is on you and others who agree with
you to be convincing, not for me to convince you.
> It's that social weight and influence
On Tue, 2013-06-18 at 04:28 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> Many DDs and DMs work as consultants or contractors. If a user wants
> to use their money as a tool for Debian development, they should hire
> one or more of these developers to work on the specific things the
> user is interested in.
Kick
On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:44 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> They are not the same thing at all. The social effects
> are almost completely different.
It's not a false equivalence. Participation is not just about being a
programmer, if you can convince a programmer to get involved on your
behalf, the
On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 22:31 -0400, Martin Owens wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:03 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> > site requesting user's charity
>
> You mean user's involvement. You don't want users to be invited to
> participate in Debian. Debian isn't elitist and it shouldn't care that
> the to
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Martin Owens wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:03 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>> site requesting user's charity
>
> You mean user's involvement. You don't want users to be invited to
> participate in Debian. Debian isn't elitist and it shouldn't care that
> the tool
Martin Owens writes:
> On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:03 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>> site requesting user's charity
> You mean user's involvement. You don't want users to be invited to
> participate in Debian. Debian isn't elitist and it shouldn't care that
> the tool being deployed is money rather t
On Mon, 2013-06-17 at 19:03 -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> site requesting user's charity
You mean user's involvement. You don't want users to be invited to
participate in Debian. Debian isn't elitist and it shouldn't care that
the tool being deployed is money rather than time.
Your argument invites
Manu Sporny dijo [Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 08:53:35PM -0400]:
> >> Thanks to everyone that has participated in the discussion thus
> >> far. :) I think there have been a number of solid concerns and
> >> issues raised, which I'm going to try and wrap into a proposal
> >> below.
> >
> > and then you
Le Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:20:47PM -0400, Manu Sporny a écrit :
>
> The files are composed together to suggest where donations should go to
> the sender. They are composed in this order:
>
> 1. Upstream project's DONATE file.
> 2. Package maintainers DONATE file.
> 3. System's DONATE file.
>
> S
On 06/16/2013 06:26 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> OTOH, I think it would be fine to have something at the package level
> to pass on donations to our upstreams, as well as to ease donating to
> the Debian project as a whole. See [1,2], already mentioned by Paul
> Wise in his initial followup to t
On 06/16/2013 05:05 AM, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> You suggest that package maintainers get to suggest where donations
> go. There's two glaring problems there.
What about making it impossible for the package maintainers to have any
say on where the money goes, then? What if it is solely up to the
up
On 06/16/2013 04:16 AM, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Sonntag, 16. Juni 2013, Manu Sporny wrote:
>> Thanks to everyone that has participated in the discussion thus
>> far. :) I think there have been a number of solid concerns and
>> issues raised, which I'm going to try and wrap into a proposal
>> b
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:05:48AM +0100, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> You suggest that package maintainers get to suggest where donations go.
> There's two glaring problems there. First, it disregards all the great
> things people do to make Debian better that are _not_ about packaging
> at all.
Yeah,
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:20:47PM -0400, Manu Sporny wrote:
> Thanks to everyone that has participated in the discussion thus far. :)
> I think there have been a number of solid concerns and issues raised,
> which I'm going to try and wrap into a proposal below.
>
> I think it might help simplify
On Sonntag, 16. Juni 2013, Manu Sporny wrote:
> Thanks to everyone that has participated in the discussion thus far. :)
> I think there have been a number of solid concerns and issues raised,
> which I'm going to try and wrap into a proposal below.
and then you continue to ignore these concerns an
Thanks to everyone that has participated in the discussion thus far. :)
I think there have been a number of solid concerns and issues raised,
which I'm going to try and wrap into a proposal below.
I think it might help simplify the donations goal by framing it in the
following way:
Ultimately, wh
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