On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 07:04:53PM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
> On 16.11.2010 10:42, Roger Leigh wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 01:14:09AM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
>>> On 14.11.2010 13:19, Julien Cristau wrote:
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:43:57 +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
> F
Florian Weimer, le Tue 16 Nov 2010 19:49:57 +0100, a écrit :
> * Roland McGrath:
>
> >> I can't see why you think --as-needed is fundamentally wrong or
> >> unnecessary.
> >
> > It is fundamentally wrong because -lfoo means I demand that the
> > initializers of libfoo.so run, whether or not I cal
* Roland McGrath:
>> I can't see why you think --as-needed is fundamentally wrong or unnecessary.
>
> It is fundamentally wrong because -lfoo means I demand that the
> initializers of libfoo.so run, whether or not I called anything in it.
So it's more like static linking. 8-)
IMHO, the current d
On 16.11.2010 10:42, Roger Leigh wrote:
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 01:14:09AM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
On 14.11.2010 13:19, Julien Cristau wrote:
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:43:57 +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs
(turning on --as-ne
Steve Langasek, le Tue 16 Nov 2010 09:14:40 -0800, a écrit :
> I don't argue that this makes --as-needed *correct* as a default, but I
> think it's clear how using --as-needed may benefit a distribution in terms
> of reducing churn when library dependencies change.
We agree on the second part, but
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 09:49:08AM +0100, Julien Cristau wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 21:29:07 -0500, Matt Turner wrote:
> > >> I can't see why you think --as-needed is fundamentally wrong or
> > >> unnecessary.
> > >> Check out http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/asneeded.xml
> > >> --as-neede
* Kurt Roeckx [101114 14:08]:
> People have been claiming that constructors or init section are a
> possible problem. I have yet to see an example where it breaks.
The following example is a bit constructed, but shows a silent change
of run-time behaviour if --as-needed is passed:
$ cat > ertes
> This change is one I can agree with on technical grounds, though it
> will cause a great deal of pain in the short term. Have we got any
> estimates on exactly how much breakage will result before the change
> gets made?
Fedora already made the change a full release cycles ago, and Fedora
packa
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 01:14:09AM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
> On 14.11.2010 13:19, Julien Cristau wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:43:57 +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
>>
>>> For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs
>>> (turning on --as-needed and --no-copy-dt-needed-e
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 01:14:09 +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
> On 14.11.2010 13:19, Julien Cristau wrote:
> >On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:43:57 +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
> >
> >>For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs
> >>(turning on --as-needed and --no-copy-dt-needed-e
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 21:29:07 -0500, Matt Turner wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > Matt Turner, le Mon 15 Nov 2010 19:51:10 -0500, a écrit :
> >> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Roger Leigh wrote:
> >> > What's the actual problem --as-needed is trying to so
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Matt Turner, le Mon 15 Nov 2010 19:51:10 -0500, a écrit :
>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Roger Leigh wrote:
>> > What's the actual problem --as-needed is trying to solve?
>> >
>> > The answer is mainly unwanted libraries being linked
Matt Turner, le Mon 15 Nov 2010 19:51:10 -0500, a écrit :
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Roger Leigh wrote:
> > What's the actual problem --as-needed is trying to solve?
> >
> > The answer is mainly unwanted libraries being linked in as a result
> > of using pkg-config (and various other -conf
> I can't see why you think --as-needed is fundamentally wrong or unnecessary.
It is fundamentally wrong because -lfoo means I demand that the
initializers of libfoo.so run, whether or not I called anything in it.
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On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Roger Leigh wrote:
> What's the actual problem --as-needed is trying to solve?
>
> The answer is mainly unwanted libraries being linked in as a result
> of using pkg-config (and various other -config variants), though there
> are other, lesser, culprits. The pkg-c
On 16.11.2010 01:24, Roger Leigh wrote:
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 11:02:57PM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
On 14.11.2010 16:06, Roger Leigh wrote:
While I understand the rationale for --no-copy-dt-needed-entries for
preventing encapsulation violations via indirect linking, I don't agree
with the u
On 14.11.2010 13:19, Julien Cristau wrote:
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:43:57 +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs
(turning on --as-needed and --no-copy-dt-needed-entries. The
rationale is summarized in
http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOL
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 11:02:57PM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
> On 14.11.2010 16:06, Roger Leigh wrote:
While I understand the rationale for --no-copy-dt-needed-entries for
preventing encapsulation violations via indirect linking, I don't agree
with the use of --as-needed *at all*.
> On 15.11.2010 07:16, Roland McGrath wrote:
> yes, OpenSuse is using --as-needed, but not --no-add-needed.
That is a pretty nutty choice.
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On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 11:02:57PM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:
> maybe, and fix it in N - ~100 packages? Or fix the ~100 packages?
> The point of injection is for discussion. I would prefer having
> this set in dpkg-buildflags, and then disabled by these ~100
> packages. Note that this is proba
On 14.11.2010 16:06, Roger Leigh wrote:
While I understand the rationale for --no-copy-dt-needed-entries for
preventing encapsulation violations via indirect linking, I don't agree
with the use of --as-needed *at all*. If a library has been explicitly
linked in, it shouldn't be removed. This is
On 15.11.2010 07:16, Roland McGrath wrote:
airlied_, does Fedora use --as-needed by default? Fedora 14 too?
mattst88: yes
The naming of the options makes people easily confused.
--no-add-needed is the only option Fedora's gcc passes.
yes, OpenSuse is using --as-needed, but not --no-add-ne
> airlied_, does Fedora use --as-needed by default? Fedora 14 too?
> mattst88: yes
The naming of the options makes people easily confused.
--no-add-needed is the only option Fedora's gcc passes.
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On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Adam Goode wrote:
> On 11/14/2010 12:42 PM, Matt Turner wrote:
>> Please ignore me if I've misunderstood the situation, firstly.
>>
>> Both Fedora and Gentoo are using --as-needed by default now. And from
>> what I've read (google: site:blog.flameeyes.eu as-needed)
On 11/14/2010 12:42 PM, Matt Turner wrote:
> Please ignore me if I've misunderstood the situation, firstly.
>
> Both Fedora and Gentoo are using --as-needed by default now. And from
> what I've read (google: site:blog.flameeyes.eu as-needed) --as-needed
> is certainly useful and prevents lots of u
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 01:51:49PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 07, 2010 at 04:19:10PM +, Roger Leigh wrote:
>> > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 03:43:57PM +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
>> > > For wheezy I'm planning to change the link
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 01:19:08PM +0100, Julien Cristau wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:43:57 +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
>
> > For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs
> > (turning on --as-needed and --no-copy-dt-needed-entries. The
> > rationale is summarized in
> >
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 01:51:49PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 07, 2010 at 04:19:10PM +, Roger Leigh wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 03:43:57PM +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
> > > For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs (turning
> > > on --as-needed and -
On Sun, Nov 07, 2010 at 04:19:10PM +, Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 03:43:57PM +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
> > For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs (turning
> > on --as-needed and --no-copy-dt-needed-entries. The rationale is
> > summarized in http:
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:43:57 +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
> For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs
> (turning on --as-needed and --no-copy-dt-needed-entries. The
> rationale is summarized in
> http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking. I would like to know
> about i
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 03:43:57PM +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
> For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs (turning
> on --as-needed and --no-copy-dt-needed-entries. The rationale is
> summarized in http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking. I would like
> to know about
For wheezy I'm planning to change the linking behaviour for DSOs (turning on
--as-needed and --no-copy-dt-needed-entries. The rationale is summarized in
http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking. I would like to know about issues
with these changes on some of the Debian ports, and if we need t
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